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realcarlos
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Some Questions
#14122181 - 03/14/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey guys. My first grow didn't go to well. (BRF CAKES) So this time around I would like to try WBS bulk grow.
I will be using WBS, coir, verm is that all I need? I would like to give monotub a go. I heard that there isn't really a lot of care needed in monotubs (basically leave it til harvest time) Is this true? Where could I find a noob friendly monotub tek?
Also I will be ordering blank syringes to make clones. I'm going to be using ralphstersspores could anyone tell me which syringes are best and do they also come with needs/caps?
any help would be great
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Doc_T
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Registered: 03/06/09
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What went wrong with your cakes?
See, if you can't do cakes, you should practice with cakes. No point in stepping up to bulk until you have the skills you need.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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i GrOw StUFF
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Re: Some Questions [Re: Doc_T]
#14123082 - 03/15/11 12:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree with Doc....
BRF cakes are some what easier but if you want to give it a shot then go ahead.....In my opinion, monotubs need some maintenance too....Everything includes some work. Monitoring moisture etc etc. I mist and fan my monos too....They too can become too wet or too dry...plus there are more vectors for contamination....My advice is too successfully do BRF cakes first.
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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biologys
Mycologist in Trainning




Registered: 12/21/09
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i disagree
in my opinion bulk and monotub's are way easier then cakes...
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i GrOw StUFF
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Re: Some Questions [Re: biologys]
#14123129 - 03/15/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im going to take Bio out back to the woodshed....
It's all opinion with this subject. When I say "easier", I mean less vectors for contamination...
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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i GrOw StUFF
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and by the way carlos....I too want to know what went wrong with your BRF cakes?
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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biologys
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Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 4,622
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i agree it is all personal preference, which is why i said in my opinion :-P
i just started my first grow with pf style cakes, and grains at the same time...my grain (popcorn) was fully colonized and spawned before my cakes were even 50 pecent colonized
then after the dunk and roll it was 2 more weeks with grains, and i had already harvested a nice first flush on monotub' and had 2nd coming before i even saw my first fruits
so never looked back at cakes again
even though I'm sitting here right now with a jar full of LC for shiitake i'm thinking about playing around with some bran/sawdust 1/2 pint cakes just to test out my LC and shiitake
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i GrOw StUFF
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Re: Some Questions [Re: biologys]
#14123167 - 03/15/11 12:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree bio, we're in the same boat....I started off with BRF tek and grains at the same time and I'm having more success with my bulk tubs than my cakes. All success but Im in love with grains at the moment...
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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biologys
Mycologist in Trainning




Registered: 12/21/09
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yup...still experimenting as well
my last batch of jars yesterday i tried with out soaking my WBS, did the boiling water for 2 hours then strained and pc'd, will see how they go
I used live cultures so hopefully they're hydrated enough to last til colonized
if not i'll be real sad 
also think i added too much gypsum as you can literally see it in the jars haha but i've done that before and it still colonized fine so we shall see..
I'm slowly moving away from cubes, after my current APE and AA+, and keepers creepers are finished I plan on sticking with edibles and will keep trying my atl, jalisco and A strain fruiting, since i can not seem to get that down
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i GrOw StUFF
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Re: Some Questions [Re: biologys]
#14123210 - 03/15/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think soaking is the most important part for pre-sterilization. I also want to move to some edibles....
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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biologys
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yeah, i've always soaked..I just gave it a try always see people claiming it works fine with out the soak/simmer and since i had the extra agar wedges...I went from spores to agar and i do plenty of dishes to transfer away from contams..and amazingly all dishes grew out clean so i just used them up except for a few that i did some transfers to isolate a bit.
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DZ
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Registered: 01/25/09
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good thing about cakes is not having all your eggs in one basket.
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i GrOw StUFF
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Re: Some Questions [Re: biologys]
#14123242 - 03/15/11 01:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah Ive seen alot of people that don't simmer but I don't think Ive read any people not soaking, maybe a couple.....Have to germinate those endospores....
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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biologys
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well, they claim 2 hours the endospores starts to germinate
and after i rinsed a few times, i poured boiling water over the wbs and let soak for 2 hours..so we shall see lol, if it does work it'll be great to cut down on prep time since i normally soak 24 hours, simmer for 15, then strain for close to 2 hours
this way i can hve completely prepped and loaded ready to pc in less then 3 hours
not much waste since i get 50 lbs of wbs for 9 bucks.
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DZ
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Registered: 01/25/09
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i never soak my WBS and never have any problems.
my prep is: measure out the WBS, fill pot with water, pull off floaters, simmer until ~5% of the milo has burst, then i rinse the WBS thoroughly in the sink. let it strain for an hour or so, shaking a few times in between, then i spread it out in a tub and let it air dry, again stirring every now and then, until the exterior of the grain isn't wet.
over the last 2 months i've made 4 masters, G2G'd 2 of those to 24 quart jars. then each jar to 4 quarts of WBS in spawn bags (total of ~124 quarts worth). I've had no contamination so, in my case, my conclusion is the soak is pointless. I PC quart jars for 90 minutes @ 15-20 psi, and I PC my spawn bags for 3 hours at the same pressure.
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ShadOWCrack
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Re: Some Questions [Re: DZ]
#14123509 - 03/15/11 02:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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i would start with the cakes to get a feel for it. i too took one run with pf and never looked back, went to WBS and still using it lol.
good luck bro, and hit me up if u need any help.
laterz
SC
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realcarlos
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thanks guys! for all your help not sure what exactly went wrong with my brf cakes could be that; 1) i used bigger jars 2) they seem fully colonzied but weren't 3) when dunked they turned transparent/gooey
what about the syringes guys? does ralph sell syringes that come with needles/caps? can anyone link me to a good monotub tek?
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i GrOw StUFF
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#1 will cause #2 and #3.....along with 4, 5, and 6....BRF needs short fat 1/2 pint jars...
-------------------- The mushrooms, which grow only during the season of torrential rains, awaken the forces of creation and produce an experience of spiritual abundance, of an astonishing, inexhaustible constitution of forms that identifies them with fertility and makes them a mediation, a means of communion, of communication between man and the natural world of which they are the metaphysical flesh.
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m00nshine
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Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Quote:
realcarlos said: thanks guys! for all your help not sure what exactly went wrong with my brf cakes could be that; 1) i used bigger jars 2) they seem fully colonzied but weren't 3) when dunked they turned transparent/gooey
what about the syringes guys? does ralph sell syringes that come with needles/caps? can anyone link me to a good monotub tek?
Sounds like you used Pint jars or larger and experienced contamination. Sounds like bacteria to me
Search for Doc34's WBS TEK and Damion's elementary coir TEK. I also have a TEK geared towards noobs that you may find helpful. It details using bird seed and coir. It is in the cakes section of the mushroom cultivation archive, located on the main page of this forum towards the top of the page.
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realcarlos
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Re: Some Questions [Re: m00nshine]
#14127609 - 03/15/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanks i grow i guess i didnt realize that  thanks moonshine what about a noob friendly guide?
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m00nshine
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Read this. All of it. It will help you.
Then, lookup Damien's Elementary coir TEK. His mixture is no doubt more nutritious, I've only included coir in the guide to make it noob friendly.
The search button is at the top of the page.
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realcarlos
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Re: Some Questions [Re: m00nshine]
#14132756 - 03/16/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh wow thanks moonshine but this time im hoping to use wbs
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m00nshine
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You didn't read all of it
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DZ
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follow my prep ^ and you will succeed. all the rinsing before simmering is absolutely pointless along with the 12-24 hr pre-soak. this is often debated but i never do it, and never have contamination. haven't had anything, not grain or substrate, contaminate in longer than i can remember. maybe a year iono. and i produce in bulk. i do toss after 2 flushes at most, sometimes one just depends on how much damage is done to the substrate when harvesting and the yield. im also sterile when needed and this contributes a lot to success. but the real trick with WBS is to MAKE SURE the exterior is dry before jarring or bagging up. after i let it drain in a strainer for an hr'ish, i spread it out in a tub and stir it up every 30-60 minutes. lots of times rather than wait for it to air dry, i will add vermiculite until the outside of the bird seed is just right. the way i test it is by grabbing the tub and shaking all the seed around, then i tilt the tub to make the seed slide to one side. if the seed sticks to the bottom instead of all sliding to one side then it isn't ready yet. when you tilt and slide it, make sure the exposed area, where the seed slid from, is dry.
there's also the spoon test, paper towel test, probably more. just make sure to use one of those tests because that is the biggest trick with getting WBS to work well and took me the longest time to figure out where i was going wrong.
and try to find wbs without cracked corn. it works fine, just makes the seed all sticky. you mainly just want milo and millet
good luck my friend
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DZ
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Re: Some Questions [Re: m00nshine]
#14132888 - 03/16/11 06:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
m00nshine said: You didn't read all of it 
lol, look again carlos
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realcarlos
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Re: Some Questions [Re: DZ]
#14133251 - 03/16/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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you guys are right sorry moonshine i read the brf my apologizes i feel like an idiot thanks for the tip DZ but but I would prefer rinsing/simmering you've been doing it for long this is my second attempt thanks again guys
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DZ
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Registered: 01/25/09
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you're welcome 
lol, it was way down there though. i would've missed it to had he not mentioned it again.
oh yeh, i do simmer until just a bit of the milo begins to crack, you definitely need to do this. but from the bag, rinsing before simmering is a waste of time; however, rinsing afterwards is necessary. do a side by side: rinse until the water is clear, simmer, rinse well, then dry them; then skip all the initial rinsing and just simmer, rinse well, and dry them, and you will see the exact same outcome. there are so many teks out there that make you think you must rinse well before simmering, you must do a 12-24 hr pre-soak, you must remove all the floaters. everything i just mentioned is a preference, none of which i do. the only way you can mess up grain is:
1) not fully hydrating it 2) not drying the exterior before loading into jars/bags 3) not having proper filtration to protect your jars after PC (ie, tyvek, polyfil, synthetic filter discs) 4) getting filtration device wet 5) not pressure cooking adequately (jars 90-120 min @ 15 psi, i can always spare the extra 30 minutes to avoid weeks of loss, so i go 120)
no matter what way you accomplish those, accomplish them, and your grain will be perfect!
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realcarlos
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Re: Some Questions [Re: DZ]
#14134308 - 03/16/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanks DZ but #3 Not sure where to get syntehic filter disc so i was hoping to do this tyvek+micropore tape do you think that will work?
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DZ
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anytime!
you can order them from online, they're kinda like the cadillacs of filtration. definitely not necessary. i used post office tyvek for more than a year with very little contamination, and i can't prove it was solely due to the filtration, but tyvek+micropore will work even better.
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ShadOWCrack
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Quote:
realcarlos said: thanks DZ but #3 Not sure where to get syntehic filter disc so i was hoping to do this tyvek+micropore tape do you think that will work?
are you in the usa??
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cyanara
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if you can get your hands on straight millet from a pet store try this out.. no soaking, rinsing, draining or anything else.. and believe me, I've had alot of issues with grains, but this works. did another batch not even 4 days ago and they are well over 50% colonized.http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14117208#14117208
Edited by cyanara (03/17/11 03:06 AM)
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realcarlos
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Re: Some Questions [Re: cyanara]
#14137701 - 03/17/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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thanks dz not in the usa shawdow:( great link cyanra ill take a better look at millet
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cyanara
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sorry if the link didn't work.. but seriously it works.. 125-130ml of water per jar. when you pull them out the bottom will tend to clump a little. don't be alarmed, just give it a good shake and when cool noc em up and your good to go. I just shook up my jars today on day 4 and I garuntee they will be done in the next few. PM me if ya got any questions or problems
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ShadOWCrack
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Re: Some Questions [Re: cyanara]
#14137856 - 03/17/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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THAT SUX
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realcarlos
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the link did work thanks again
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cyanara
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cool cool. good luck
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