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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions.....
#14120711 - 03/14/11 05:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You see, children, the problem with public sector unions is the vast power that the unions have to install politicians that are supposed to assume an adversarial position across the bargaining table. When it is in the interests of a politician to pander to a hugely influential and deep pocketed group at the negotiating table then we have a situation in which the vast majority receive no representation. This is not to be confused with lobbying over legislation, contract negotiations aren't legislation. Nor is it to be confused with any voluntary contributions union members may give to politicians. As it stands right now they are forced to give contributions to politicians they may well not support but which are selected by their union bosses. But here we have the perfect evidence of just how much the politicians are in the pocket:
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/117941979.html
Quote:
MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- School boards and local governments across Wisconsin are rushing to reach agreements with unions before a new law takes effect that will remove their ability to collectively bargain over nearly all issues other than minimal salary increases.
Secretary of State Doug La Follette said Monday he decided to delay publication of the law until the latest day possible, March 25, to give those local governments as much time as possible to reach agreements. The law doesn't take effect until the day after La Follette publishes it.
Why would they be rushing to make agreements before they get a better bargaining position? Because they are owned and want to make sure their masters see their fealty. Meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Secretary of State Doug La Follette is a Dem.
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Dave Bowman
Albert Hoffmans Apprentice




Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Your Imagination
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14120814 - 03/14/11 06:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't understand why more people don't get this...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Dave Bowman]
#14120832 - 03/14/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most people identify with and support losers because they are insecure.
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Taco Chef
I found dead John Cheever



Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 33,222
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14121360 - 03/14/11 07:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh yes it has nothing to do with the far vaster power of corporations to " to install politicians".
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Taco Chef]
#14122146 - 03/14/11 09:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
novumorganum said: oh yes it has nothing to do with the far vaster power of corporations to " to install politicians".

Huh?
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 575
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14123103 - 03/15/11 12:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
From the article Zappa cites: "The Madison school board met in a marathon 18-hour session Friday night to reach an agreement with the local teachers union to approve a new contract that runs through mid-2013.
That agreement freezes wages and requires the same pension contribution as state workers will be required to pay starting later this month under the new law. It also allows the district to require health insurance premium contributions up to 5 percent in the first year of the deal and up to 10 percent in the second year."
Ya school boards sure love those unions, they gave them frozen salaries, gave them the same pension contributions that were mandated in the NEW law, and raised the teachers individual health care contribution. They really sold the Wisconsin citizen down the river for their union friends. LOL
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Smackshadow]
#14124263 - 03/15/11 09:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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They should hammer them harder. That's their job. What was the rush to make a deal before the new law takes effect? They essentially rushed to make a deal before they got a stronger bargaining position. What kind of idiot does that? Phony baloney bullshit.
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14126321 - 03/15/11 06:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
You see, children, the problem with corporations is the vast power that the corporations have to install politicians that are supposed to assume an adversarial position across the bargaining table.
Fixed that for you
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14126622 - 03/15/11 07:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
You see, children, the problem with corporations is the vast power that the corporations have to install politicians that are supposed to assume an adversarial position across the bargaining table.
Fixed that for you
You live in a fantasy land. Say, do you know who owns corporations? People. A lot of the owners of corporations are, wait for it, union trust funds............ WHOA!
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14126892 - 03/15/11 07:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why would they be rushing to make agreements before they get a better bargaining position? Because they are owned and want to make sure their masters see their fealty. Meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Secretary of State Doug La Follette is a Dem.
Probably because the people making the agreements support union rights. Probably because they are not worthless assholes and don't actively want to screw over workers. That's the problem with the conservative doctrine. It's soulless. Why would people do something that won't get them the most possible money? Why would people not try to screw over their neighbors? You can't even fathom it.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 12 years, 6 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14127017 - 03/15/11 08:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
Why would they be rushing to make agreements before they get a better bargaining position? Because they are owned and want to make sure their masters see their fealty. Meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Secretary of State Doug La Follette is a Dem.
Probably because the people making the agreements support union rights. Probably because they are not worthless assholes and don't actively want to screw over workers. That's the problem with the conservative doctrine. It's soulless. Why would people do something that won't get them the most possible money? Why would people not try to screw over their neighbors? You can't even fathom it.
The conservative doctrine is much more "natural". It basically is survival of the fittest for organizations. Without this natural selection you get completely inefficient organizations. The free market system of pricing is also the most efficient way for distributing resources perfectly according to people's wants.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: 4896744]
#14128096 - 03/15/11 11:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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The problem with this so called "natural" economic doctrine is that conservatives and their corporate buddies are constantly working to turn the system to their favor. The economic principles that we see espoused by the republican party are aimed at diverting wealth to the wealthy at the expense of working class people. They claim that this "pure" form of capitalism will benefit everyone, and that it will result in the freest possible society. The reality, what we have seen throughout history, is unemployment, the disenfranchisement of workers through breaking unions, and massive increases in corporate earnings. The fact is pure free market capitalism is exactly like communism, it only works in theory. Ideally the United States should work towards improving the quality of life for all citizens, not only the rich.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14128421 - 03/16/11 12:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said: The problem with this so called "natural" economic doctrine is that conservatives and their corporate buddies are constantly working to turn the system to their favor. The economic principles that we see espoused by the republican party are aimed at diverting wealth to the wealthy at the expense of working class people. They claim that this "pure" form of capitalism will benefit everyone, and that it will result in the freest possible society. The reality, what we have seen throughout history, is unemployment, the disenfranchisement of workers through breaking unions, and massive increases in corporate earnings. The fact is pure free market capitalism is exactly like communism, it only works in theory. Ideally the United States should work towards improving the quality of life for all citizens, not only the rich.
If you don't trust the state to run a communist state, and you don't trust them to run a capitalist state, why do you trust them to run whatever it is you're talking about?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14128564 - 03/16/11 12:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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He already said--capitalist/communist governments only work in theory. It's possible that a government which is a blend of both would work both in theory and practice.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14129101 - 03/16/11 04:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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> It's possible that a government which is a blend of both would work both in theory and practice.
And it is possible that monkeys might fly out of your... lots of things that are possible seldom happen in the really real world.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Seuss]
#14129113 - 03/16/11 04:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're comparing the likelihood of there being a stable government that is a blend of both capitalism and communism to the likelihood of monkeys flying out of my ass? Why? 
Those things aren't even remotely close to being equally likely...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14129157 - 03/16/11 04:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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> Why? 
Because, in my opinion, both are equally likely to happen. History has shown us time and time again that communism fails. The only way for communism to succeed is to hold a population hostage by the government. History has shown us time and time again that authoritarian governments fail. The people eventually get tired of being controlled and revolt. With this in mind, the chances of government that blends capitalism and communism together being able to last is next to zero. Look at China for a great real world example. The only reason the Chinese government is able to survive is because of their brutal human rights practices against their own population.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14129684 - 03/16/11 09:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
Why would they be rushing to make agreements before they get a better bargaining position? Because they are owned and want to make sure their masters see their fealty. Meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Secretary of State Doug La Follette is a Dem.
Probably because the people making the agreements support union rights. Probably because they are not worthless assholes and don't actively want to screw over workers. That's the problem with the conservative doctrine. It's soulless. Why would people do something that won't get them the most possible money? Why would people not try to screw over their neighbors? You can't even fathom it.
Gastro, in his great glorious confusion has managed to make my point perfectly, to wit that the taxpayer has no, or at best weak, representation at the public sector union bargaining table. The taxpayer who is himself a working person. The 90% of the population that actually pays the salaries of public sector unions. The great majority who gets screwed at the bargaining table because the people who are supposed to be representing them are beholden to their adversaries. Why, gastro, do you insist on granting preferred status to public union workers at the expense of everybody else?
Quote:
Gastronomicus said: The problem with this so called "natural" economic doctrine is that conservatives and their corporate buddies are constantly working to turn the system to their favor. The economic principles that we see espoused by the republican party are aimed at diverting wealth to the wealthy at the expense of working class people. They claim that this "pure" form of capitalism will benefit everyone, and that it will result in the freest possible society. The reality, what we have seen throughout history, is unemployment, the disenfranchisement of workers through breaking unions, and massive increases in corporate earnings. The fact is pure free market capitalism is exactly like communism, it only works in theory. Ideally the United States should work towards improving the quality of life for all citizens, not only the rich.
1. There is not nor has there ever been "pure capitalism". Never will be, either, as long as there are governments. All we can consider is what is an appropriate level of government interference. Conservatives say less. Socialists say more. One thing that has been made abundantly clear throughout history is that socialism is an abject failure. Most people stop striving. Happens every time. 2. The government doesn't have to "divert" wealth to the rich. There's a reason why they are rich. They don't suck at life. They are, for the most part, smarter and work harder than the vast bulk of the population. "Everybody's Working for the Weekend". Not everybody, losers, not everybody. 3. Unionism causes more unemployment through protectionism, industry destruction and competitive disadvantage than a free market for labor, not the opposite. 4. Non-union workers are not disenfranchised. By far the greatest portion of the working force is non union. They are not helpless and have greater freedom for not having closed shops. 5. There is nothing wrong with profit (eeevul "corporate earnings").. Why do you think companies exist? To make money for their owners, NOT to provide make work jobs to an inept cadre of slunks and mugwumps. And do you know who owns those corporations that make nasty ass profits? People. Lots of regular people and their pension funds that are there to pay for their retirement. If not for corporate profits, which generate huge tax revenue, where would they invest those retirement funds to get a similar return? Not in your backroom grow op, that's for sure. 5. The people of the United States should work to improve their own lives and the government should stop thwarting them through wealth confiscation and misguided social engineering. Most losers are not losers through misfortune, they are victims of the grievance scammers and other flim flam men who rile them up by corrupting an aspirational society that admires success to an envious society that seeks to drag all men down into a slough of mediocrity. Harrison Bergeron, call your office. The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14129733 - 03/16/11 09:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
True words.
Our government and it's policies have turned this nation (and the same can be said for most nations) into a bunch of shitbags with an unrealistic and undeserved sense of entitlement.
It's pathetic.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14129738 - 03/16/11 09:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: One thing that has been made abundantly clear throughout history is that socialism is an abject failure. Most people stop striving. Happens every time.
Striving for what?
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
All hail mediocrity!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14129759 - 03/16/11 09:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: One thing that has been made abundantly clear throughout history is that socialism is an abject failure. Most people stop striving. Happens every time.
Striving for what?
Whatever they want. Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
All hail mediocrity! 
Yipee!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14129779 - 03/16/11 09:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: One thing that has been made abundantly clear throughout history is that socialism is an abject failure. Most people stop striving. Happens every time.
Striving for what?
Whatever they want.
Um, I know this sounds fucking crazy, but what if, by some tiny sliver of a chance, they want and are content with what they have, even if it's mediocre?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
All hail mediocrity! 
Yipee!
What a mediocre reply. 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14129800 - 03/16/11 09:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: One thing that has been made abundantly clear throughout history is that socialism is an abject failure. Most people stop striving. Happens every time.
Striving for what?
Whatever they want.
Um, I know this sounds fucking crazy, but what if, by some tiny sliver of a chance, they want and are content with what they have, even if it's mediocre?
Then that is what they are striving for. Do you have a point?Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
All hail mediocrity! 
Yipee!
What a mediocre reply. 

It was vastly superior to what I replied to.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14129830 - 03/16/11 09:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Poid said: Um, I know this sounds fucking crazy, but what if, by some tiny sliver of a chance, they want and are content with what they have, even if it's mediocre?
Then that is what they are striving for. Do you have a point?
Well you said "people stop striving" as if you expect people to constantly strive for things, even if they have all they need; who cares if socialism causes people to stop striving, especially if they are given everything they need?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
What a mediocre reply. 

It was vastly superior to what I replied to.
Nah, not vastly.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14129848 - 03/16/11 10:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd speculate zappers is pissed at unions because the union-represented lady at the welfare office turned down his extension application. After all, sitting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day bitching about politics instead of actually getting out and working for a living doesn't qualify under the 'welfare to work' statute. 
The union members in Wisconsin are actually working for a living, and after they agreed to fund the governors tax cut to corporations paid for with their salary and benefit cuts, he still wasn't satisfied, so he broke the open meetings law and quorum requirements in order to implement his corporate agenda, which by his own admission is to cut off a supreme court authorized funding source for the Democratic party. You'll note he made no such attempts to deny business the right to join the chamber of commerce, a major Republican funding source.
Of course, no corporation would hire an internet addicted keyboard flamer either, so you don't appear able to get a job whether there's unions or not.  RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14129880 - 03/16/11 10:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'd speculate zappers is pissed at unions because the union-represented lady at the welfare office turned down his extension application. After all, sitting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day bitching about politics instead of actually getting out and working for a living doesn't qualify under the 'welfare to work' statute. 
Wait, you don't believe he's rich? That would make some sense, I've seen a picture of him drinking a Budweiser...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14129987 - 03/16/11 10:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said:Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
Let's say you have 2 authors. One writes trashy, cheesy novels with no literary value, but they sell well and he becomes a millionaire. The 2nd author writes scholarly books which are highly praised by critics but they don't sell well and he earns about $40,000 a year.
According to you, the 1st author is a winner and the 2nd is a loser, even though the 2nd author's quality of work is superior. The millionaire author is actually perpetuating the mediocrity, yet HE'S the WINNER?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: RogerRabbit] 1
#14130150 - 03/16/11 11:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'd speculate zappers is pissed at unions because the union-represented lady at the welfare office turned down his extension application. After all, sitting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day bitching about politics instead of actually getting out and working for a living doesn't qualify under the 'welfare to work' statute. 
My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head. Like a leetle girl. Stay classy, Rogerina.Quote:
The union members in Wisconsin are actually working for a living, and after they agreed to fund the governors tax cut to corporations paid for with their salary and benefit cuts, he still wasn't satisfied, so he broke the open meetings law and quorum requirements in order to implement his corporate agenda, which by his own admission is to cut off a supreme court authorized funding source for the Democratic party. You'll note he made no such attempts to deny business the right to join the chamber of commerce, a major Republican funding source.
He didn't break the open meetings law Rog nor did he break the quorum requirements. More ignorance of facts from Rogerina. Are you getting your degree from the Kos School of Legal Jurisprudence any time soon? What does voluntary association in the Chamber of Commerce have to do with involuntary association and membership in a union? Not a whole lot.Quote:
Of course, no corporation would hire an internet addicted keyboard flamer either, so you don't appear able to get a job whether there's unions or not.  RR
More leetle girl from Rogerina. You're sooo cute when you pout. Like Hello Kitty or, maybe, Boxxy. Yeah, that's it, Boxxy. Now run along and be mean to newb mushroom growers. It's an important job.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14130153 - 03/16/11 11:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'd speculate zappers is pissed at unions because the union-represented lady at the welfare office turned down his extension application. After all, sitting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day bitching about politics instead of actually getting out and working for a living doesn't qualify under the 'welfare to work' statute. 
Wait, you don't believe he's rich? That would make some sense, I've seen a picture of him drinking a Budweiser...
I like Budweiser.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14130174 - 03/16/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: zappaisgod said:Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
Let's say you have 2 authors. One writes trashy, cheesy novels with no literary value, but they sell well and he becomes a millionaire. The 2nd author writes scholarly books which are highly praised by critics but they don't sell well and he earns about $40,000 a year.
According to you, the 1st author is a winner and the 2nd is a loser, even though the 2nd author's quality of work is superior. The millionaire author is actually perpetuating the mediocrity, yet HE'S the WINNER? 
My what a little snob you are. Books that a lot of people want to read are trashy cheesy crap while something nobody wants to read is elevated to some rarefied status because effete twats with no use except to criticize believe they are magical?
Can you write a trashy cheesy novel that will sell millions of copies? No you fucking can't.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130203 - 03/16/11 11:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Of course, no corporation would hire an internet addicted keyboard flamer either, so you don't appear able to get a job whether there's unions or not.  RR
More leetle girl from Rogerina. You're sooo cute when you pout. Like Hello Kitty or, maybe, Boxxy. Yeah, that's it, Boxxy. Now run along and be mean to newb mushroom growers. It's an important job.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



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Posts: 869
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130230 - 03/16/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said: zappaisgod said:Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
Let's say you have 2 authors. One writes trashy, cheesy novels with no literary value, but they sell well and he becomes a millionaire. The 2nd author writes scholarly books which are highly praised by critics but they don't sell well and he earns about $40,000 a year.
According to you, the 1st author is a winner and the 2nd is a loser, even though the 2nd author's quality of work is superior. The millionaire author is actually perpetuating the mediocrity, yet HE'S the WINNER? 
My what a little snob you are. Books that a lot of people want to read are trashy cheesy crap while something nobody wants to read is elevated to some rarefied status because effete twats with no use except to criticize believe they are magical?
Can you write a trashy cheesy novel that will sell millions of copies? No you fucking can't. 
I actually wasn't trying to be a snob. So you think books such as Harlequin Romances have great literary value and the people who write them believe that as well? You don't think they are just catering to the masses?
What about the Jerry Springer Show, do you think that's an example of intellectually superior TV programming? I saw an interview of Jerry Springer and he said he knows his show is a piece of garbage that he would never care to watch, but he does it for the money. So he is PERPETUATING the MEDIOCRITY. Yet you declare him a winner because he is adept at exploiting the masses of sheople?
Books and TV shows that the great majority of people want to read and watch seem superficial and mediocre to me. You are actually FOR mediocrity if you think any piece of "art" that caters to the masses is a quality piece of work JUST BECAUSE it sells well.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14130276 - 03/16/11 11:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said: zappaisgod said:Quote:
The Rise of the Mediocrity is upon us.
Let's say you have 2 authors. One writes trashy, cheesy novels with no literary value, but they sell well and he becomes a millionaire. The 2nd author writes scholarly books which are highly praised by critics but they don't sell well and he earns about $40,000 a year.
According to you, the 1st author is a winner and the 2nd is a loser, even though the 2nd author's quality of work is superior. The millionaire author is actually perpetuating the mediocrity, yet HE'S the WINNER? 
My what a little snob you are. Books that a lot of people want to read are trashy cheesy crap while something nobody wants to read is elevated to some rarefied status because effete twats with no use except to criticize believe they are magical?
Can you write a trashy cheesy novel that will sell millions of copies? No you fucking can't. 
I actually wasn't trying to be a snob. So you think books such as Harlequin Romances have great literary value and the people who write them believe that as well? You don't think they are just catering to the masses?
They certainly have great entertainment value. I don't read them but I'm not going to put my nose in the air about people who do. What is wrong with catering to the masses? The masses are people, too, you know.Quote:
What about the Jerry Springer Show, do you think that's an example of intellectually superior TV programming? I saw an interview of Jerry Springer and he said he knows his show is a piece of garbage that he would never care to watch, but he does it for the money. So he is PERPETUATING the MEDIOCRITY. Yet you declare him a winner because he is adept at exploiting the masses of sheople?
Who's exploiting who? He certainly didn't create the idiots who watch his show. He entertains them. So what?Quote:
Books and TV shows that the great majority of people want to read and watch seem superficial and mediocre to me. You are actually FOR mediocrity if you think any piece of "art" that caters to the masses is a quality piece of work JUST BECAUSE it sells well.
Quality is subjective. You wanna be the Kulture Kop? Tsk tsk tsk. Liberal fascism and snobbery all exposed in one post. You should work for NPR.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130458 - 03/16/11 12:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You expressly stated that rich people are more intelligent than poor people. The point is that something of lesser intellectual value tends to perform better financially. Since that is the case, and rich people are smarter than poor people,, then by default pulp fiction that sells well is of greater intellectual quality than the book that does not sell well.
That's the whole problem with your Aryan Nation style worship of the wealthy. Being rich does not mean that you are a superior example of the human species. It does not mean you are inherently more intelligent than the teacher who is making a smaller salary. That is one of the great myths perpetuated by your fascist cult.
Besides, is the smartest person the one who resorts immediately to ad hominim attacks? No, that is the tactic of one who does not have a viable position, or the intelligence to defend it.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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HippieChick8
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130477 - 03/16/11 12:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You call 85% of Americans losers, and you think that *I'm* a snob? I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people and brainwash them from birth. Then you have the unmigitated gall to call the 85% losers, and tell them to "work harder" to attempt to reinforce their psychological slavery.
For a source refer to "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", it's free on the Internet. Although I know you are probably opposed to a free piece of information just on principle, you might want to take a look at it, it's an eye opener.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14130500 - 03/16/11 12:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people...
...also inferior products Made in China.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14130507 - 03/16/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is the method of all these double-thinking corporate whores. Look down on the poor, accuse the left of snobbery. Bankrupt the nation through tax cuts for the wealthy, blame the working class. It's all bullshit, and zappa is the king of the bullshit. There's no need to use logic or rational dialogue with him, he already knows everything and you're wrong.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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MelloRed



Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 186
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14130555 - 03/16/11 12:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Representatives are owned by whomever has money. Groups of people (whether they be unions or corporate advocacy groups) generate more money and have more power than any individual. It's sucks and is a weakness of democracy, but the alternatives aren't much better. If anyone has a solution go for it, but every solution I can think of reduces individuals' right to free speech too much.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14130566 - 03/16/11 12:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said: You expressly stated that rich people are more intelligent than poor people. The point is that something of lesser intellectual value tends to perform better financially. Since that is the case, and rich people are smarter than poor people,, then by default pulp fiction that sells well is of greater intellectual quality than the book that does not sell well.
What? 
There are more idiots. There are more poor people. Intellectual value is of no relevance. Entertainment value is. "Einstein at the Beach" isn't for everybody. Mass appeal is no indicator of intellectual value. Nor should it be anybody's business what other people choose to entertain themselves with. Most of the people in the country can't name the VP. So what? Quote:
That's the whole problem with your Aryan Nation style worship of the wealthy.(fucking spare me that stupidity. Not even you are that dumb) Being rich does not mean that you are a superior example of the human species. It does not mean you are inherently more intelligent than the teacher who is making a smaller salary. That is one of the great myths perpetuated by your fascist cult.
The only fascists I see are liberal Kulture Kops and thought police. And wealth redistributors, like you.
Is everybody who is rich intelligent? Of course not. Some of them won the lottery, either sperm or state. Not relevant. the ugly truth is that most rich people got rich because they are smarter and work harder and didn't ruin their lives at an early age with drugs and babies and arrests and by skipping school, etc.Quote:
Besides, is the smartest person the one who resorts immediately to ad hominim attacks? No, that is the tactic of one who does not have a viable position, or the intelligence to defend it.
What ad hominem are you referring to? I suggest you reacquaint yourself with the meaning of the phrase.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130592 - 03/16/11 12:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You called rogerrabbit a leetle girl. I suggest you reacquaint yourself with what you wrote ten minutes ago.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14130620 - 03/16/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Besides, fascism is pro-corporate. Finding a liberal fascist would be like finding any validity in your position, it simply doesn't exist. Like the Easter bunny or Raegan
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14130623 - 03/16/11 12:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: You call 85% of Americans losers, and you think that *I'm* a snob? I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people and brainwash them from birth. Then you have the unmigitated gall to call the 85% losers, and tell them to "work harder" to attempt to reinforce their psychological slavery.
I believe I referred to 85% of the population as "parasites". I stand by that. There is no such thing as psychological slavery. Only a snob would believe in such a thing.Quote:
For a source refer to "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", it's free on the Internet. Although I know you are probably opposed to a free piece of information just on principle, you might want to take a look at it, it's an eye opener.
Freely given is free to take. From your link:
Quote:
For over a twenty-five-year period the research used in this chronology has been collected from many sources: the United States Department of Education; international agencies; state agencies; the media; concerned educators; parents; legislators, and talented researchers with whom I have worked for at least twenty-five years. In the process of gathering this information two beliefs that most Americans hold in common became clear:
1) If a child can read, write and compute at a reasonably proficient level, he will be able to do just about anything he wishes, enabling him to control his destiny to the extent that God allows (remain free).
2) Providing such basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition.
Since most Americans believe the second premise-that providing basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition-it becomes obvious that it is only a radical agenda, the purpose of which is to change values and attitudes (brainwash), that is the costly agenda. In other words, brainwashing by our schools and universities is what is bankrupting our nation and our children's minds.
I didn't see any mention of popular culture. Seems rather to be an indictment of the liberal controlled education system.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14130630 - 03/16/11 12:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head. Like a leetle girl.
More leetle girl from Rogerina.
Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" ( ), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl".
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14130664 - 03/16/11 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said: Besides, fascism is pro-corporate. Finding a liberal fascist would be like finding any validity in your position, it simply doesn't exist. Like the Easter bunny or Raegan
All liberals are fascist. They want to control your life, tell you what to eat, what to wear, what to read, what to spend your money on, if they leave you with any. Etc.
Quote:
Gastronomicus said: That is the method of all these double-thinking corporate whores. Look down on the poor, accuse the left of snobbery. Bankrupt the nation through tax cuts for the wealthy, blame the working class. It's all bullshit, and zappa is the king of the bullshit. There's no need to use logic or rational dialogue with him, he already knows everything and you're wrong.
The wealthy already pay for everything. The bottom 50% of taxpayers pay virtually nothing. On the rare occasion where you have said something correct I have acknowledged it as such. It is never in this forum.
Did you make your nomination for robbyberto's team name yet?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
#14130681 - 03/16/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head. Like a leetle girl.
More leetle girl from Rogerina.
Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" ( ), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl". 
Those are not ad hominems. They are insults in direct response to the Leetle Girl's insults toward myself, which themselves might qualify as ad homs since they were invented to discredit my posting.
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MelloRed



Registered: 02/09/11
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130689 - 03/16/11 12:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
All liberals are fascist. They want to control your life, tell you what to eat, what to wear, what to read, what to spend your money on, if they leave you with any. Etc.
You are describing authoritarianism rather than fascism.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130780 - 03/16/11 01:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Poid said: My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head. Like a leetle girl.
More leetle girl from Rogerina.
Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" ( ), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl". 
Those are not ad hominems.
Thanks for repeating what I just said!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14130873 - 03/16/11 01:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said: You call 85% of Americans losers, and you think that *I'm* a snob? I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people and brainwash them from birth. Then you have the unmigitated gall to call the 85% losers, and tell them to "work harder" to attempt to reinforce their psychological slavery.
I believe I referred to 85% of the population as "parasites". I stand by that. There is no such thing as psychological slavery. Only a snob would believe in such a thing.Quote:
For a source refer to "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", it's free on the Internet. Although I know you are probably opposed to a free piece of information just on principle, you might want to take a look at it, it's an eye opener.
Freely given is free to take. From your link:
Quote:
For over a twenty-five-year period the research used in this chronology has been collected from many sources: the United States Department of Education; international agencies; state agencies; the media; concerned educators; parents; legislators, and talented researchers with whom I have worked for at least twenty-five years. In the process of gathering this information two beliefs that most Americans hold in common became clear:
1) If a child can read, write and compute at a reasonably proficient level, he will be able to do just about anything he wishes, enabling him to control his destiny to the extent that God allows (remain free).
2) Providing such basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition.
Since most Americans believe the second premise-that providing basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition-it becomes obvious that it is only a radical agenda, the purpose of which is to change values and attitudes (brainwash), that is the costly agenda. In other words, brainwashing by our schools and universities is what is bankrupting our nation and our children's minds.
I didn't see any mention of popular culture. Seems rather to be an indictment of the liberal controlled education system.
If you read the book, you'll see that it is actually a combination of the liberals and conservatives that want to "dumb down" education.
George W. Bush, republican, came up with the idiotic "No Child Left Behind" Act. I have spoken to some techers about it. Teachers have to spend more time and taxpayers have to spend more money on the below average students, at the expense of the average and the gifted.
From Wikipedia: "There's a fallacy in the law and everybody knows it," said Alabama State Superintendent Joe Morton on Wednesday, August 11, 2010. According to the No Child Left Behind Act, by 2014 every child is supposed to test on grade level in reading and math. "That can't happen," said Morton. "You have too many variables and you have too many scenarios, and everybody knows that would never happen." Alabama State Board Member Mary Jane Caylor said, "I don't think that No Child Left Behind has benefited this state." She argued the goal of 100 percent proficiency is unobtainable.[27] Charles Murray wrote of the law: "The United States Congress, acting with large bipartisan majorities, at the urging of the President, enacted as the law of the land that all children are to be above average."[28]
Declaring that all children should be above average is just as senseless as declaring that all Americans should be in the top 15% financially. Who would take out the garbage?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14131043 - 03/16/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Who declared any such thing?
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14131434 - 03/16/11 02:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Who declared any such thing?
YOU DO! Just about every week you complain about the bottom 85% and you say that they should "work harder" and pull themselves into the top 15% and pay more taxes.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14131485 - 03/16/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well no, dearie, I don't. You are conflating two concepts. One is the concept that everybody should be above average and the other is that everybody should pay taxes. The tax system creates the 85% parasite number, not the work ethic or intelligence level. I don't expect everybody to be in the top 15% of earners. I want the bottom 85% to start pulling their own weight by either paying for what they get or taking less from other people.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14131691 - 03/16/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't expect everybody to be in the top 15% of earners.
Finally! I've been trying to get you to say this for months!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
#14132072 - 03/16/11 04:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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How could everybody be in the top 15% of anything?
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14132397 - 03/16/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: How could everybody be in the top 15% of anything?
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14153116 - 03/20/11 10:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are at least a few key economic factors to consider when examining the effects that unions have on specific industries and the economy as a whole...
I maintain that unions increase the rate of unemployment (as does minimum wage laws, regardless of how you feel about them this is fact as long as scarcity exists).
Unions also decrease the overall productivity of a particular industry: the ford U.S. automaker union has been working to prevent more technologically advanced plants from being built in the U.S. So, they are built in Brazil instead. Yes more productive plants could mean layoffs of employees, in the short term.
In the long run technological advancements vastly increase job availability in a particular industry.
Why is that?
It is because that industry then becomes more efficient, productive, and profitable.
If it is profitable investment in more capital goods, more employment, raw materials, et cetera becomes possible. at You should then find that said goods provided will be cheaper, of better quality, and more competitive globally.
In short, fuck unions because they are against productivity and don't care about the customer. They are a huge part of why American car manufacturers began to suck at life.
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57-71
Stranger


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 289
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Mr.Al]
#14154932 - 03/20/11 05:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said: There are at least a few key economic factors to consider when examining the effects that unions have on specific industries and the economy as a whole...
I maintain that unions increase the rate of unemployment (as does minimum wage laws, regardless of how you feel about them this is fact as long as scarcity exists).
Unions also decrease the overall productivity of a particular industry: the ford U.S. automaker union has been working to prevent more technologically advanced plants from being built in the U.S. So, they are built in Brazil instead. Yes more productive plants could mean layoffs of employees, in the short term.
In the long run technological advancements vastly increase job availability in a particular industry.
Why is that?
It is because that industry then becomes more efficient, productive, and profitable.
If it is profitable investment in more capital goods, more employment, raw materials, et cetera becomes possible. at You should then find that said goods provided will be cheaper, of better quality, and more competitive globally.
In short, fuck unions because they are against productivity and don't care about the customer. They are a huge part of why American car manufacturers began to suck at life.
Even with your Ludwig sig you still cannot comment on the corporate socialism that has now taken hold of the US. All that is left of US fiscal policy is corporate socialism, and individual capitalism, and that makes your freedom a lie. Ludwig would be rolling over in his grave at the hundreds of billions of dollars handed out to banks and corporations in the past 3 years. All of you that still work and pay tax, will be paying for this the rest of your lives.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: 57-71]
#14159203 - 03/21/11 01:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am well aware of the moral hazards created by the present monetary system. There have been a number of debates on the shroomery in regards to that.
This particular topic deals with unions, so I attempt to keep the discussion focused on that.
I hope that my northern friends are not too quick to jump to conclusions regarding what Americans are cognizant of....
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