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OfflineGastronomicus
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Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14130620 - 03/16/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Besides, fascism is pro-corporate. Finding a liberal fascist would be like finding any validity in your position, it simply doesn't exist. Like the Easter bunny or Raegan


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14130623 - 03/16/11 12:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
You call 85% of Americans losers, and you think that *I'm* a snob?  I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people and brainwash them from birth. Then you have the unmigitated gall to call the 85% losers, and tell them to "work harder" to attempt to reinforce their psychological slavery.




I believe I referred to 85% of the population as "parasites".  I stand by that.  There is no such thing as psychological slavery.  Only a snob would believe in such a thing.
Quote:



For a source refer to "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", it's free on the Internet.  Although I know you are probably opposed to a free piece of information just on principle, you might want to take a look at it, it's an eye opener.




Freely given is free to take.  From your link:

Quote:

For over a twenty-five-year period the research used in this chronology has been collected from many sources: the United States Department of Education; international agencies; state agencies; the media; concerned educators; parents; legislators, and talented researchers with whom I have worked for at least twenty-five years. In the process of gathering this information two beliefs that most Americans hold in common became clear:

1) If a child can read, write and compute at a reasonably proficient level, he will be able to do just about anything he wishes, enabling him to control his destiny to the extent that God allows (remain free).

2) Providing such basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition.

Since most Americans believe the second premise-that providing basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition-it becomes obvious that it is only a radical agenda, the purpose of which is to change values and attitudes (brainwash), that is the costly agenda. In other words, brainwashing by our schools and universities is what is bankrupting our nation and our children's minds.

I didn't see any mention of popular culture.  Seems rather to be an indictment of the liberal controlled education system.





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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14130630 - 03/16/11 12:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head.  Like a leetle girl.

More leetle girl from Rogerina.


Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" (:whacker:), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl". :aliceshocker:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #14130664 - 03/16/11 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Besides, fascism is pro-corporate. Finding a liberal fascist would be like finding any validity in your position, it simply doesn't exist. Like the Easter bunny or Raegan




All liberals are fascist.  They want to control your life, tell you what to eat, what to wear, what to read, what to spend your money on, if they leave you with any.  Etc.

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
That is the method of all these double-thinking corporate whores. Look down on the poor, accuse the left of snobbery. Bankrupt the nation through tax cuts for the wealthy, blame the working class. It's all bullshit, and zappa is the king of the bullshit. There's no need to use logic or rational dialogue with him, he already knows everything and you're wrong.




The wealthy already pay for everything.  The bottom 50% of taxpayers pay virtually nothing.  On the rare occasion where you have said something correct I have acknowledged it as such.  It is never in this forum. 

Did you make your nomination for robbyberto's team name yet?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Poid]
    #14130681 - 03/16/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head.  Like a leetle girl.

More leetle girl from Rogerina.


Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" (:whacker:), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl". :aliceshocker:



Those are not ad hominems.  They are insults in direct response to the Leetle Girl's insults toward myself, which themselves might qualify as ad homs since they were invented to discredit my posting.


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OfflineMelloRed
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Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 186
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14130689 - 03/16/11 12:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:

All liberals are fascist.  They want to control your life, tell you what to eat, what to wear, what to read, what to spend your money on, if they leave you with any.  Etc.




You are describing authoritarianism rather than fascism.

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14130780 - 03/16/11 01:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
My what a snippy little personal bitchfest you have in your head.  Like a leetle girl.

More leetle girl from Rogerina.


Neither of these are ad hominems; he's saying "like a leetle girl" (:whacker:), and "more leetle girl", not "you are a leetle girl". :aliceshocker:



Those are not ad hominems.


Thanks for repeating what I just said! :smile2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14130873 - 03/16/11 01:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
You call 85% of Americans losers, and you think that *I'm* a snob?  I think that the "elite" in this country PURPOSELY promote and encourage inferior art as well as inferior education to the majority of people and brainwash them from birth. Then you have the unmigitated gall to call the 85% losers, and tell them to "work harder" to attempt to reinforce their psychological slavery.




I believe I referred to 85% of the population as "parasites".  I stand by that.  There is no such thing as psychological slavery.  Only a snob would believe in such a thing.
Quote:



For a source refer to "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", it's free on the Internet.  Although I know you are probably opposed to a free piece of information just on principle, you might want to take a look at it, it's an eye opener.




Freely given is free to take.  From your link:

Quote:

For over a twenty-five-year period the research used in this chronology has been collected from many sources: the United States Department of Education; international agencies; state agencies; the media; concerned educators; parents; legislators, and talented researchers with whom I have worked for at least twenty-five years. In the process of gathering this information two beliefs that most Americans hold in common became clear:

1) If a child can read, write and compute at a reasonably proficient level, he will be able to do just about anything he wishes, enabling him to control his destiny to the extent that God allows (remain free).

2) Providing such basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition.

Since most Americans believe the second premise-that providing basic educational proficiencies is not and should not be an expensive proposition-it becomes obvious that it is only a radical agenda, the purpose of which is to change values and attitudes (brainwash), that is the costly agenda. In other words, brainwashing by our schools and universities is what is bankrupting our nation and our children's minds.

I didn't see any mention of popular culture.  Seems rather to be an indictment of the liberal controlled education system.








If you read the book, you'll see that it is actually a combination of the liberals and conservatives that want to "dumb down" education. 

George W. Bush, republican, came up with the idiotic "No Child Left Behind" Act.  I have spoken to some techers about it.  Teachers have to spend more time and taxpayers have to spend more money on the below average students, at the expense of the average and the gifted.

From Wikipedia: "There's a fallacy in the law and everybody knows it," said Alabama State Superintendent Joe Morton on Wednesday, August 11, 2010. According to the No Child Left Behind Act, by 2014 every child is supposed to test on grade level in reading and math. "That can't happen," said Morton. "You have too many variables and you have too many scenarios, and everybody knows that would never happen." Alabama State Board Member Mary Jane Caylor said, "I don't think that No Child Left Behind has benefited this state." She argued the goal of 100 percent proficiency is unobtainable.[27] Charles Murray wrote of the law: "The United States Congress, acting with large bipartisan majorities, at the urging of the President, enacted as the law of the land that all children are to be above average."[28]

Declaring that all children should be above average is just as senseless as declaring that all Americans should be in the top 15% financially.  Who would take out the garbage?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14131043 - 03/16/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Who declared any such thing?


--------------------

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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14131434 - 03/16/11 02:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Who declared any such thing?




YOU DO!  Just about every week you complain about the bottom 85% and you say that they should "work harder" and pull themselves into the top 15% and pay more taxes.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14131485 - 03/16/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well no, dearie, I don't.  You are conflating two concepts.  One is the concept that everybody should be above average and the other is that everybody should pay taxes.  The tax system creates the 85% parasite number, not the work ethic or intelligence level.  I don't expect everybody to be in the top 15% of earners.  I want the bottom 85% to start pulling their own weight by either paying for what they get or taking less from other people.


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14131691 - 03/16/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't expect everybody to be in the top 15% of earners.




Finally!  I've been trying to get you to say this for months! :cool:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14132072 - 03/16/11 04:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How could everybody be in the top 15% of anything?


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14132397 - 03/16/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
How could everybody be in the top 15% of anything?




:rofl:

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OfflineMr.Al
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14153116 - 03/20/11 10:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There are at least a few key economic factors to consider when examining the effects that unions have on specific industries and the economy as a whole...

I maintain that unions increase the rate of unemployment (as does minimum wage laws, regardless of how you feel about them this is fact as long as scarcity exists).

Unions also decrease the overall productivity of a particular industry: the ford U.S. automaker union has been working to prevent more technologically advanced plants from being built in the U.S.  So, they are built in Brazil instead.  Yes more productive plants could mean layoffs of employees, in the short term.

In the long run technological advancements vastly increase job availability in a particular industry.

Why is that?

It is because that industry then becomes more efficient, productive, and profitable.


If it is profitable investment in more capital goods, more employment, raw materials, et cetera becomes possible.
at
You should then find that said goods provided will be cheaper, of better quality, and more competitive globally.

In short, fuck unions because they are against productivity and don't care about the customer.  They are a huge part of why American car manufacturers began to suck at life.

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Offline57-71
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 289
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14154932 - 03/20/11 05:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
There are at least a few key economic factors to consider when examining the effects that unions have on specific industries and the economy as a whole...

I maintain that unions increase the rate of unemployment (as does minimum wage laws, regardless of how you feel about them this is fact as long as scarcity exists).

Unions also decrease the overall productivity of a particular industry: the ford U.S. automaker union has been working to prevent more technologically advanced plants from being built in the U.S.  So, they are built in Brazil instead.  Yes more productive plants could mean layoffs of employees, in the short term.

In the long run technological advancements vastly increase job availability in a particular industry.

Why is that?

It is because that industry then becomes more efficient, productive, and profitable.


If it is profitable investment in more capital goods, more employment, raw materials, et cetera becomes possible.
at
You should then find that said goods provided will be cheaper, of better quality, and more competitive globally.

In short, fuck unions because they are against productivity and don't care about the customer.  They are a huge part of why American car manufacturers began to suck at life.




Even with your Ludwig sig you still cannot comment on the corporate socialism that has now taken hold of the US. All that is left of US fiscal policy is corporate socialism, and individual capitalism, and that makes your freedom a lie.
Ludwig would be rolling over in his grave at the hundreds of billions of dollars handed out to banks and corporations in the past 3 years. All of you that still work and pay tax, will be paying for this the rest  of your lives.

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OfflineMr.Al
Alphabet soup
Male

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
Re: If any of you had any doubt that the people representing you are owned by unions..... [Re: 57-71]
    #14159203 - 03/21/11 01:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I am well aware of the moral hazards created by the present monetary system.  There have been a number of debates on the shroomery in regards to that. 

This particular topic deals with unions, so I attempt to keep the discussion focused on that.

I hope that my northern friends are not too quick to jump to conclusions regarding what Americans are cognizant of....

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