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OfflineZenXi6
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Tea Party Politics comes to Australia
    #14120639 - 03/14/11 05:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

For any Australian Shroomerites, you might've already heard about this.

In recent months, there has been a push from some in our conservative party (Liberal Party) toward a more aggressive and fear mongering style of polit(trick)ing.
"Tony Abbott’s decision to fight the next election in Tea Party mode is taking the Liberal Party - and Australia - towards a new kind of politics.

It’s been a long while since a campaign of fear-driven street demonstrations has been used to propel someone into office. His call for a ‘people’s revolt’ will see a series of protest demonstrations, starting in Canberra next week.

Abbott wants to mimic the rise of the powerful ‘Tea Party’ movement in the US which has helped undermine the presidency of Barack Obama. The Tea Party phenomenon had a big impact in recent US elections and it has spawned extremist fervour one consequence of which was the attempted assassination of the US Congresswomanx, Gabrielle Giffords. In Australia, this new politics also involves anonymous death threats and enormous personal pressure on the two independent MPs whose support is crucial for Labor."

-ABC News


There were protests on the weekend where conservatives, pushed by redneck radio "shock jocks" (from top rating stations in Melbourne like 3AW and Sydney like 2GB) and politicians from the far-right of the spectrum aimed to pose as a grassroots movement against a proposed tax on carbon, along with protesting against the very existence of any change in our climate what so ever.

400 people turned up to this protest in Melbourne's west.

In Melbourne's CBD, a rival protest was organised to send a different message - That Australians do want to look after the environment, that we do accept environmental economic responsibility, that we want a future for everyone.

Around 7,500 people turned up to this protest.



-----

I understand the points that the far-right are trying to argue against.  Essentially traditional conservative politics, to my understanding, has been about less government intervention with our every day lives.  Therefore taxation is not considered highly in this system.

But, I think even sensible conservative political figures understand that for our SHARED resources (land, water, minerals, forests, oceans etc..), we need fair grounds on how we are to use, farm, mine etc. these resources.

When it comes to pollution, industries, companies, individuals should all be looking to make as little negative impact as possible.  Sometimes, it is a fact of an industry that something is a by-product of what they do.  To tax this means that the people as a whole get to define standards of environmental expectation, rather than a business (which is likely to define standards economically, rather than ethically), and it also means that the government can then fund projects to look after our shared resources.

This seems fairly basic logic to me... private enterprise has proved that above all, profit reigns king.  Although a lot of the time to make profit, a business must be run ethically for people to want it, this isn't really a reality.  (This is kind of similar to people idolizing communism).
Clever marketing, monopolising and other such methods of business can mean it becomes rather easy to lower standards and higher profit.

So, we expect our government to make sure all the checks and balances are in place.


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Offlineseeker28
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14157743 - 03/21/11 02:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's pathetic superficial slander by Murdoch and the gang which is getting in the way of the health and longevity of our planet.

What city are you in, bruzzef? Adelaide? If so, we've got a March for Survival happening on the 26th - just putn' it out there.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14158114 - 03/21/11 06:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Tea Party phenomenon had a big impact in recent US elections and it has spawned extremist fervour one consequence of which was the attempted assassination of the US Congresswomanx, Gabrielle Giffords.




What a load of crap.  As has been pointed out numerous times, the yoyo that tried to assassinate Gabrielle was insane.  Before insanity, he was a lefty... about as polar opposite from the tea party movement as one can get.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: Seuss]
    #14159021 - 03/21/11 12:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

And yet the slander, once stated, continues.  Who was it who said a lie repeated enough.............?


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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: seeker28]
    #14160135 - 03/21/11 04:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

seeker28 said:
It's pathetic superficial slander by Murdoch and the gang which is getting in the way of the health and longevity of our planet.

What city are you in, bruzzef? Adelaide? If so, we've got a March for Survival happening on the 26th - just putn' it out there.




I'm in Melbournetown, thanks for letting me know though! 
I dunno how well that style of politicking would work in Australia, although similar to the U.S. system.. we have fairly vast differences too.


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Offlineseeker28
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14160610 - 03/21/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And yet the slander, once stated, continues.  Who was it who said a lie repeated enough.............?



Climate change is factual. Anthropogenic Climate Change is factual.

Anyone with half a brain can work that out: "derrrrrr,, industrial revolution derrrrrr,, environmental degradation happening at the same time,, derrrrr!!"

or

"derrrrrr I like car derr, but oil finite derrrrrr,, I like. heater. derrr but coal finite derrrrr,, wait a minute!! derrr what about the future of this planet?!? derrrr*head explodes*"

Not to mention the peer-reviewed science that points overwhelmingly in favour of anthropogenically caused climate change.

Profit-before-people spells the demise of this planet, but you don't give a rat's, do you?

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: seeker28]
    #14160691 - 03/21/11 06:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> Anthropogenic Climate Change is factual.

This is not the fantasy forum... please keep discussion to politics.


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Offlineseeker28
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: Seuss]
    #14163194 - 03/22/11 05:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Anthropogenic Climate Change is factual.

This is not the fantasy forum... please keep discussion to politics.



Umm, don't mean to come across as rude, but it's not fantasy, it's reality. with accredited scientists, climate scientists, as in people whose daily occupation it is to research our changing climate, in 90% agreeance that climate change is anthropogenically catalysed, there's not much doubt in my mind.

Want to brush me off as fantastical? Then you're brushing off the researched and peer-reviewed opinions of scientists worldwide as well. Not to mention Professor John Garnaut.

Or wait, you want us to discuss politics? As in the games people play with the masses in order to stay in power, in order to keep being fed by multinational corporations, oil and fossil fuel lobbies?

With all due respect, Doctor, you're not living up to your name.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: seeker28]
    #14163283 - 03/22/11 06:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Reading comprehension... please keep discussion to politics.


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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: Seuss]
    #14164742 - 03/22/11 01:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Dude, you're not going to convince people of AGW, they're the same people that still choose to disbelieve in evolution, moon landings and the holocaust.  You can only hope to minimize their influence and watch their numbers dwindle as they die to any number of natural disasters and old age, much like racists.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: jebustrist]
    #14165277 - 03/22/11 03:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

AGW is a hoax.


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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14166313 - 03/22/11 06:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if Global Warming is the term people are flaunting... I thought it was Climate Change (which is far more complex than just static rises in temperatures across the globe).

I've never heard a scientist deny this.  I've heard some people say they don't think human activities are effecting this, but regardless, there is an overarching point that remains:

Pollution causes damage to the environment - We should pollute less and create a sustainable future.

Who cares about the ins and outs of a theory, when the polluting and unsustainability continues?!

This metaphor is precisely what's happening:

Why are we all standing around, trying to figure out who started the fire, while the whole house burns down?!
THE HOUSE IS STILL ON FIRE!!


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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14166791 - 03/22/11 08:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

'Climate change' is a term that was invented by republican strategists because it is less alarming to people than 'global warming'.  The reality remains the same: human industrial activity is releasing any number of gases and byproducts which are increasing the average temperature of the planet - that is not debated and anyone that has seriously studied the issue agrees.  Some places will become colder, some hotter, wetter, dryer etc; climate is the result of an incredibly complex dance of variables that operate on times and scales far beyond those of an individual human life.  The planet is getting warmer though. 2010 was the hottest year on record.  2009 was the second warmest.  The 2000s were the warmest decade on record.  Record-breaking extreme weather is become de rigueur, the planet is approaching its limits. 

I almost look forward to laughing in the face of all the reality-denying, mostly conservative, conspiracy whackjobs when we have record sea-levels in 30 years.  I suppose they'll either conveniently forget ever having disbelieved or say something like "it's still not clear this isn't just a natural cycle...the sun is getting warmer!"

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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: jebustrist]
    #14166853 - 03/22/11 08:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

lol... yeah, that's the problem with those that deny the facts in front of them.. they'll just change the language and live in their own little subjective havens until the cows come home.

Why these stupids have any say in public matters still plagues me... only GOD knows.. HA.  But, while they put themselves in to the public sphere, they must be ridiculed and their opinions shown for what they are (x-arguments) at every point. 

We shouldn't even have to waste time appeasing the subjectivitists out there


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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14166867 - 03/22/11 08:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and for the latest:

The Age - Canberra Carbon Tax Protest

And Tweets straight from The Age reporter Katharine Murphy, TWITTER - Murpharoo


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Offlineseeker28
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14168396 - 03/23/11 04:24 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I wish this was facebook so I could like your and jebustrist's comments.

It's nice to finally have some backing here against "horrid asshole"'s like zappaisgod.

I was so angry watching the 7:30 report this evening with all those rednecks and tories waving placards wearing their gucci sunglasses and pearl necklaces. Seriously, fuck them. fuck them all to hell.
And to think people like us are campaigning for the security of their futures as well..

:huxleyfacepalm:

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Offlineseeker28
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14168431 - 03/23/11 05:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Furthermore, is it just me or is there a misnomerious vibe around these parts, perpetuated by a select arguably influential few, not naming any names, that being a climate sceptic/denier is an elitist position?

:stanhopefacepalm:

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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: seeker28]
    #14168883 - 03/23/11 09:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

And to think people like us are campaigning for the security of their futures as well..




Could you explain how a 'carbon tax', as put forward by Gillard, will save the world?


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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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Invisiblejebustrist
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: Starter]
    #14168961 - 03/23/11 09:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Starter said:
Could you explain how a 'carbon tax', as put forward by Gillard, will save the world?




No one action will be enough to solve the problem of global warming, but taxing carbon emissions will begin to restore free market pressures to the power industry.  Coal plants are relatively cheap to produce, but carry an host of hidden costs that are present in their emissions and their negative health effects.  By properly factoring in these costs as a tax on carbon emissions we can begin to reflect the true cost of burning coal and provide an incentive to transition to other technologies which emit less carbon, as well as providing a boost to all the innovators working on low-carbon solutions.  Sustainability is going to be a part of the Third Industrial Revolution and those that lead the way will surely reap the economic benefits.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Tea Party Politics comes to Australia [Re: jebustrist]
    #14169308 - 03/23/11 10:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

:facepalm:

The climate changes constantly and has changed constantly for the 4 billion years that the Earth has existed.  Sometimes it is warmer, sometimes it is colder.  There is zero evidence that CO2 emissions are a driver of planetary heating and in fact, based on the historical record, seem to be a trailing indicator vis-a-vis temperature.  There is a giant ball of fusion 93M miles away that has far more effect than anything else regarding our climate.  There is no overall demonstrable harm in a warmer planet.  Just shifting local weather issues which will be to the advantage of some areas and the detriment of others.  Boo hoo, change is constant.  Finally, any efforts to restrict human caused CO2 emissions will  be severely deleterious to the quality of life of the humans on this planet.  All of them.


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