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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Paw_Paw]
    #14117375 - 03/13/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This video is pretty amazing.

Death toll will probably be over 10,000. I literally watched hundreds of people die on live TV one late night a few days ago. Crazy.


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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: gzuf]
    #14117540 - 03/14/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I made a thread with this link instead of just posting here. :tongue:

High quality pics and a couple videos.
http://www.kanpai.fr/japon/tsunami-seisme-photos-videos-catastrophe-japon.html


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Edited by amilibertine (03/14/11 12:30 AM)

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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: gzuf]
    #14117574 - 03/14/11 12:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gzuf said:
This video is pretty amazing.

Death toll will probably be over 10,000. I literally watched hundreds of people die on live TV one late night a few days ago. Crazy.




:eek:


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Mad_Larkin said:  Death is just a thang.
:clementine:
MrJellineck said:  Profits, prophets. That's all you jews think about.
sheekle said: life is drugs... and music... and cat... :snowman:

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #14117580 - 03/14/11 12:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

[url=

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OfflinePaw_Paw
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: P-O]
    #14117700 - 03/14/11 01:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Everything is pretty sad so far

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: P-O]
    #14117708 - 03/14/11 01:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This second explosion looks different and more energetic somehow!  A lot of debris was blasted high in to the air with this one.  Not wanting to scare monger but I worries that some of the core might have been included in that large plume of dust and debris.

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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #14117804 - 03/14/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

aNeway2sayHooray said:
Quote:

gzuf said:
This video is pretty amazing.

Death toll will probably be over 10,000. I literally watched hundreds of people die on live TV one late night a few days ago. Crazy.




:eek:




Absolutely incredible.

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OfflineDeadmaker
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14117811 - 03/14/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Geez, this is terrible. There are reports of a third reactor now over heating at Fukushima.

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Offlineigwna
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: gzuf]
    #14117843 - 03/14/11 01:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gzuf said:
This video is pretty amazing.

Death toll will probably be over 10,000. I literally watched hundreds of people die on live TV one late night a few days ago. Crazy.





holy shit that would be terrifying :sad:


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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: Deadmaker]
    #14117861 - 03/14/11 01:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Bloke on BBC is insisting its ok and that this second explosion is same as the first one... I hope it ain't no bull!!!

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus] * 1
    #14118125 - 03/14/11 04:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, the second explosion at Fukushima I, this time we're dealing with reactor #3, was similar to the first one and comes as no surprise; in fact, the second explosion was anticipated 24 hours ago when it became apparent that cooling systems of reactor #3 were malfunctioning. So it seems that a hydrogen explosion has occurred, which is the indirect result of the reactor heating up beyond its design limits.

What happens is that coolant water boils to superheated steam, which then either directly breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen, or the steam reacts with the zirconium cladding of the fuel elements, resulting in oxygen being stripped off the water to form zirconium-oxide, leaving pure hydrogen (H2). This latter effect, the zirconium-steam reaction only occurs at high temperatures; if memory serves this is about 1200C (2200F). Note that at this temperature, damage to the nuclear fuel itself does not necessarily ensue. Hence, the formation of hydrogen is in itself not a sign of a meltdown, although it is a sign that the conditions for a meltdown are developing.

In any case, the hydrogen gas (and superheated steam) put pressure on the reactor vessel and the reactor's containment structure. In order to relieve this pressure, reactor operators may vent the gas to the outer containment structure. In the case of Fukushima, this is the building that you can see in the video feeds; the inner containment structure and the reactor vessel are not visible from outside. When hydrogen gas is vented into the larger, outer containment structure, it comes into contact with air, so there's ample oxygen present. And in an installation that is teeming with high-power electrical equipment, a spark is bound to present itself and that results in the sort of hydrogen explosion we have now seen twice in Japan.

In itself, such an explosion is not too worrisome; there are usually only trace amounts of radioactive particles in the hydrogen, and most of the radioactivity exists in the form of N16 which is very short-lived, so after a minute or so nearly all radioactivity has dissipated. Also, the damage of a hydrogen explosion to the reactor vessel should be minimal, and Japanese officials indicate that no damage to the reactor vessels has occurred at this point. However, the destruction of infrastructure around the reactor will certainly make operations to further cool the reactor difficult, and that is my biggest concern at this point.

I expect that a partial meltdown in at least one of the reactors in Fukushima will occur, or is already happening. There are serious issues with injecting water into the top of the reactor vessel of the #2 reactor, which will almost unavoidably result in melting of at least part of the nuclear fuel. This does not necessarily mean that substantial amounts of radioactivity will be released to the environment, but it definitely is not a good situation. There will undoubtedly more news on this issue in the following hours and days.

/edit: The most recent development in reactor 2 is that the pressure seems to stabilize itself, but if this is due to temperatures that are also stabilizing, or due to the permanent venting of steam is unclear. I suspect the latter, which would mean that mildly radioactive steam is being released. Radiation levels around the plant seem to be limited.

/edit2: The fuel elements in the Fukushima I reactor #2 seem to be completely dry at this moment. This reactor has been said to contain MOx fuel, which contains weapons-grade plutonium. The particular difficulty with this type of fuel, apart from the radioactivity of its constituents, is the fact that it is difficult to cool due to lower thermal conductivity than regular nuclear fuel. If the fuel elements are indeed dry, then they will most likely overheat, burst and release their radioactive contents. It is difficult to say to what extent those contents will be released to the environment, but it will definitely happen to some extent. Combined with the current eastern winds in Japan, this has potentially very bad consequences for the Japanese cities, and possibly for China, Korea, Mongolia and parts of Russia as well.

This article is a must-read if you want to know about the mechanisms and risks of core meltdowns in the Fukushima reactors: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/japan-fukushima-nuclear-reactor.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp

Edited by koraks (03/14/11 05:23 AM)

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118166 - 03/14/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's now safe to say that reactor #2 of Fukushima I will experience at least a partial meltdown of nuclear fuel. The only upshot is that the containment buildings of reactor #2 are still intact (as of yet...), as is the reactor vessel. Hopefully this will prevent large amounts of radioactive elements from being released to the atmosphere. But it seems to me that things will get worse than they are now.

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Offlinefantasticfungus
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118183 - 03/14/11 05:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

koraks said
Quote:

It is difficult to say to what extent those contents will be released to the environment, but it will definitely happen to some extent. Combined with the current eastern winds in Japan, this has potentially very bad consequences for the Japanese cities, and possibly for China, Korea, Mongolia and parts of Russia as well.






fukin ell

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: fantasticfungus]
    #14118237 - 03/14/11 06:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Reactor #2 will be injected with seawater to help cool it down.

This will result in the formation of substantial amounts of steam, and due to the likely presence of burst fuel elements, this steam will contain a certain amount of radioactive elements, most notably cesium and iodine. A 'feed and bleed' strategy will be followed, which means that seawater is continuously fed into the reactor, which there boils off into steam, and the steam will be vented to the atmosphere. This procedure will have to be maintained until another form of cooling can be implemented (unlikely due to the damage to the plant) or until the reactor cools down to a point where less extensive cooling is needed. I expect that radioactive steam will be released, continuously or periodically, over the course of several days.

Measurement data released about 3 hours ago indicate radiation levels of 20 uSv at the gate of the Fukushima I nuclear plant. I assume this is a reading of 20 uSv, which is considerably higher than background radiation (on average a person receives about 2,400 uSv/year from background radiation alone), and roughly comparable to a CT scan. So one hour in the vicinity of the plant equates roughly to making 1 CT scan, or to eating 200 bananas (bananas are mildly radioactive). The maximum allowable dose in industry for people working with radioactive materials is about 50,000 uSv (== 50 mSv, == 5 rem). So a nuclear plant operator would be allowed to permanently stay 100 days at the site at this radiation level before he reaches his allowable dose.

/edit: I just read in Dutch media that measurements of 40uSv to 500uSv have been reported in the area of the Fukushima plant, which is 100 to 1000 times higher than the background level of 0.5uSv.

Edited by koraks (03/14/11 06:41 AM)

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118245 - 03/14/11 06:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

According to the Japanese authorities, a third explosion at the Fukushima plant is unlikely to occur. However, I consider this a rather odd report due to the fact that seawater is being injected into reactor #2, which involves the risk of a hydrogen explosion as we've seen at reactors #1 and #3.

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Offlinemm.
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118248 - 03/14/11 06:47 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
MOx fuel, which contains weapons-grade plutonium.




No it doesn't, weapons-grade plutonium is mostly plutonium (e.g. 95%), whereas the MOx fuel is mostly uranium (e.g. 95%)


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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118251 - 03/14/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If I eat bananas, will I get super powers? :bender:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: mm.]
    #14118252 - 03/14/11 06:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mm. said:
Quote:

koraks said:
MOx fuel, which contains weapons-grade plutonium.




No it doesn't, weapons-grade plutonium is mostly plutonium (e.g. 95%), whereas the MOx fuel is mostly uranium (e.g. 95%)



MOx as used in NPP's contains up to a few percent weapons grade plutonium. The rest are other oxides. Hence the name MOx: mixed oxide. The use of 'weapons grade' in the context of MOx fuel is a bit misleading, I admit. It is usually plutonium that is 'recycled' from decommissioned nuclear weapons.

Rumor has it that reactor #2 now undergoes a meltdown. This seems likely, but is as of yet unconfirmed.

Edited by koraks (03/14/11 06:50 AM)

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OfflinePaw_Paw
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118258 - 03/14/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think we have a modern day meltdown and maybe more than one
Is most off the fallout headed for China?

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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Magnitude 8.8 Earthquake Hits Japan. [Re: koraks]
    #14118259 - 03/14/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

According to Japanese media, a meltdown might have occurred in reactor #2 at the Fukushima I plant. TEPCO considers drilling a hole in the reactor vessel to relieve the pressure as a result of hydrogen buildup, to prevent the reactor vessel from rupturing uncontrollably.

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