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InvisibleM11
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Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 1,840
Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14116943 - 03/13/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
Quote:

M11 said:
Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
the chemical is produced as a toxin that is their only defense mechanism.  It's not fatal to humans (near impossible to die from overdose), but it sure will make your body upset.  It's similar to caffeine- an insecticide, that stimulates out central nervous system (instead of killing us)




It sure does prevent us from eating too many.





its not an issue of too many.  It evolved over time to create toxins targeting non-mammalian species.  Kind of like how drinking too much coffee will make you shit yourself.




Evolution has no "target" as you stated.  Favorable, inheritable traits are passed from generation to generation.  Species don't decide that it sure would be nice to have a toxin that resides in my cells to prevent bugs from eating me, and then carry out the biological processes to make such a toxin. 

I was just casually stating that given the potency of domesticated strains, we don't consume all that many shrooms for a good time.

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Offlinedmonkey1
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: M11]
    #14116952 - 03/13/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:shrug:


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InvisibleM11
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: dmonkey1]
    #14116994 - 03/13/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I am not trying to come off as argumentative dmonkey1.  I just enjoy the discussions on these boards.

Nice avatar by the way; it cracks me up.


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Of course, then there's the problem of eating vermiculite. On the bright side, it makes your poop and teeth glitter.  Just pretend it's christmas.
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Those mushrooms are fine.  Your friend is a pussy.
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OfflineSilhouette
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: M11]
    #14117245 - 03/13/11 11:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
Quote:

M11 said:
Quote:

dmonkey1 said:
the chemical is produced as a toxin that is their only defense mechanism.  It's not fatal to humans (near impossible to die from overdose), but it sure will make your body upset.  It's similar to caffeine- an insecticide, that stimulates out central nervous system (instead of killing us)




It sure does prevent us from eating too many.





its not an issue of too many.  It evolved over time to create toxins targeting non-mammalian species.  Kind of like how drinking too much coffee will make you shit yourself.




Coffee doesn't do that to me.

Quote:

M11 said:
I am not trying to come off as argumentative dmonkey1.  I just enjoy the discussions on these boards.

Nice avatar by the way; it cracks me up.




Lmao, me too.


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"I'm doing a hundred on the highway. So if you do the speed limit, get the fuck outta my way." -- Christopher Brian Bridges

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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: Silhouette]
    #14117294 - 03/13/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Actually some mammals seek these out. Believe it or not, some species like to get high. Cats (even large jungle cats) go for catnip and strange jungle vines that get them high; elephants find rotting fruit (which produce alcohol) and get drunk; reindeer are known to eat liberty caps and cubensis, intentionally looking for them.

It's just cubensis' dumb luck, or evolutionary advantage, that the animals that like to eat them happen to have the right digestive system to help them spread spores. Generally those include deer, cattle, reindeer, horses and other herbivores. The odd squirrel enjoys them too, but I think red squirrels are more partial to them than gray squirrels.

Now that I think about it, it's probably more luck than anything that animals spread spores for them. I'm not sure how intentional it is for cattle and horses to eat shrooms. They're dumb grazers that just mow the grass, and if the shrooms are the same height as the grass, they get eaten too.


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OfflineSilhouette
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14117339 - 03/13/11 11:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Actually some mammals seek these out. Believe it or not, some species like to get high. Cats (even large jungle cats) go for catnip and strange jungle vines that get them high; elephants find rotting fruit (which produce alcohol) and get drunk; reindeer are known to eat liberty caps and cubensis, intentionally looking for them.

It's just cubensis' dumb luck, or evolutionary advantage, that the animals that like to eat them happen to have the right digestive system to help them spread spores. Generally those include deer, cattle, reindeer, horses and other herbivores. The odd squirrel enjoys them too, but I think red squirrels are more partial to them than gray squirrels.

Now that I think about it, it's probably more luck than anything that animals spread spores for them. I'm not sure how intentional it is for cattle and horses to eat shrooms. They're dumb grazers that just mow the grass, and if the shrooms are the same height as the grass, they get eaten too.




http://www.cracked.com/article_17032_7-species-that-get-high-more-than-we-do.html


--------------------
"I'm doing a hundred on the highway. So if you do the speed limit, get the fuck outta my way." -- Christopher Brian Bridges

:mushroom2: Love for all. :heartpump:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14117447 - 03/14/11 12:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:

cattle and horses ... They're dumb grazers that just mow the grass




I'm shaking my fist at you for grouping the intelligence levels of cows with horses. you ever look into a horses eyes man? they are very aware beings.

and cows... in as high-pitched a voice as I can muster, "cows are my friends"


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Offlineraw-beets
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: Silhouette]
    #14117460 - 03/14/11 12:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I wasn't trying to get into the nitty-gritty of genetics. Just as M11 said, I just wanted to make a point that there is never a goal in mind when new heritable traits emerge from natural selection.

Now, that begs the question of whether artificial selection (breeding) by people counts as natural selection. Because we and, in turn, our actions are a product of evolution wouldn't it follow that our actions are simply another force of natural selection?

Sexual selection can cause potential mates to be selected based on a trait that may be linked to their competitive fitness tenuously at best. This can result in dramatic traits which seem to be unhelpful, harmful even, to an organisms fitness, example: peacock.

Similarly, humans breed organisms for certain trait(s) to the extent that the organism could not survive in the wild, though it flourishes in a domestic environment. This would be called artificial selection.

However, since human behavior and action is a result of evolutionary mechanisms should our actions be considered artificial when they apply to selecting individuals to breed based on desirable traits?

Edited by raw-beets (03/14/11 05:58 AM)

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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: Primal Call]
    #14117476 - 03/14/11 12:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ryath, this is just for you. Read the whole thing, whether or not you love horses, it's hilarious.

Horses are definitely smarter than cattle, but when it comes to munching on grass, I'm willing to bet they handle it the same way. Teeth near ground, anything goes.


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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14117527 - 03/14/11 12:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lmao, I haven't read every line yet, and my eyes are already watering. thx for that. it doesn't deter my love of horses though


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? *DELETED* [Re: afrosheen]
    #14117538 - 03/14/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by EntheogenicPeace


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OfflineSilhouette
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: raw-beets]
    #14117542 - 03/14/11 12:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

raw-beets said:
I wasn't trying to get into the nitty-gritty of genetics. Just as M11 said, I just wanted to make a point that there is never a goal in mind when new heritable traits emerge from natural selection.
Now, that begs the question of whether artificial selection (breeding) by people counts as natural selection. Because we and, in turn, our actions are a product of evolution wouldn't it follow that our actions are simply another force of natural selection? Sexual selection can cause potential mates to be selected based on a trait that may be linked to their competitive fitness tenuously at best. This can result in dramatic traits which seem to be unhelpful, or harmful even, to an organisms fitness, example: peacock. Similarly, humans breed organisms for certain trait(s) to the extent that the organism could not survive in the wild, though it flourishes in a domestic environment. This would be called artificial selection. However, since human behavior and action is a result of evolutionary mechanisms should our actions be considered artificial when they apply to selecting individuals to breed based on desirable traits?




Use paragraphs, fuck.

I didn't even read that.

tl;dr

Edit: and what the hell brought up sex?


--------------------
"I'm doing a hundred on the highway. So if you do the speed limit, get the fuck outta my way." -- Christopher Brian Bridges

:mushroom2: Love for all. :heartpump:

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Edited by Silhouette (03/14/11 12:32 AM)

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InvisibleBlindBat
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 287
Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14117552 - 03/14/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

.

Edited by BlindBat (04/29/12 01:37 AM)

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OfflineMasticore
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: afrosheen]
    #14117561 - 03/14/11 12:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Actually some mammals seek these out. Believe it or not, some species like to get high. reindeer are known to eat liberty caps and cubensis, intentionally looking for them.

It's just cubensis' dumb luck, or evolutionary advantage, that the animals that like to eat them happen to have the right digestive system to help them spread spores. Generally those include deer, cattle, reindeer, horses and other herbivores. The odd squirrel enjoys them too, but I think red squirrels are more partial to them than gray squirrels.




I was going to bring that up as well, I thought it was possible that instead of it being poisoned to keep some animals away, it's slowly evolved with something to attract them instead.


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Treat my posts like the Bible. I am fallible, subject to human limitation, and usually open to interpretation.

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OfflineSilhouette
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: BlindBat]
    #14117572 - 03/14/11 12:38 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BlindBat said:
Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

Actually some mammals seek these out. Believe it or not, some species like to get high. Cats (even large jungle cats) go for catnip and strange jungle vines that get them high; elephants find rotting fruit (which produce alcohol) and get drunk; reindeer are known to eat liberty caps and cubensis, intentionally looking for them.

It's just cubensis' dumb luck, or evolutionary advantage, that the animals that like to eat them happen to have the right digestive system to help them spread spores. Generally those include deer, cattle, reindeer, horses and other herbivores. The odd squirrel enjoys them too, but I think red squirrels are more partial to them than gray squirrels.

Now that I think about it, it's probably more luck than anything that animals spread spores for them. I'm not sure how intentional it is for cattle and horses to eat shrooms. They're dumb grazers that just mow the grass, and if the shrooms are the same height as the grass, they get eaten too.




Some of those claims have validity, such as the reindeer eating mushrooms (i think it's Amanita muscaria, though, & not ones w/psilocybin) & felines liking catnip. However, the elephant one has been discredited by virtue of small amount of alcohol in fruit compared to the huge body weight of the animal.

I would take slight offense at the "dumb grazers" classification as it's true that they sometimes will unknowingly eat toxic plants, but they do exercise selection & preference as routine behavior. However, i don't know how they are with mushrooms.

I think the poster who said it evolved & was selected for as an insecticide like caffeine is probably closest to the truth. As for discouraging larger animals (& maybe even attracting some if the reindeer hypothesis is correct), that would be hard to know how affective it would be, especially in terms of discouragement. Since the animal may well have munched on one or two other things by the time the effects kick in, it would be hard to know if they could attribute it to the shrooms. I think the taste would probably also serve as a barrier to prevent them from eating enough to feel the effects, though.

Come to think about it, that be pretty fucked for the animal, though, both literally & figuratively. I can't imagine being under the influence of psychedelics, and unknowingly at that, in the context being under always at least some degree of threat from predation.




Elephants may not, but monkeys definitely seek out alcohol to get drunk though.  They'll even steal drinks from tourists who aren't paying close enough attention to their glasses.






LMAO.


--------------------
"I'm doing a hundred on the highway. So if you do the speed limit, get the fuck outta my way." -- Christopher Brian Bridges

:mushroom2: Love for all. :heartpump:

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OfflineMasticore
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14117583 - 03/14/11 12:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
I would take slight offense at the "dumb grazers" classification as it's true that they sometimes will unknowingly eat toxic plants, but they do exercise selection & preference as routine behavior. However, i don't know how they are with mushrooms.

I think the poster who said it evolved & was selected for as an insecticide like caffeine is probably closest to the truth. As for discouraging larger animals (& maybe even attracting some if the reindeer hypothesis is correct), that would be hard to know how affective it would be, especially in terms of discouragement. Since the animal may well have munched on one or two other things by the time the effects kick in, it would be hard to know if they could attribute it to the shrooms. I think the taste would probably also serve as a barrier to prevent them from eating enough to feel the effects, though.

Come to think about it, that be pretty fucked for the animal, though, both literally & figuratively. I can't imagine being under the influence of psychedelics, and unknowingly at that, in the context being under always at least some degree of threat from predation.


I've read that deer like the aminita so much that hunters will post up near patches if they know reindeer are around.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? *DELETED* [Re: raw-beets]
    #14117597 - 03/14/11 12:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by EntheogenicPeace

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (03/14/11 12:58 AM)

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OfflineSilhouette
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #14117600 - 03/14/11 12:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Please, post in paragraphs.

Half these posts are so painful to read.


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"I'm doing a hundred on the highway. So if you do the speed limit, get the fuck outta my way." -- Christopher Brian Bridges

:mushroom2: Love for all. :heartpump:

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OfflineMasticore
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: Silhouette]
    #14117636 - 03/14/11 12:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lol Those are paragraphs.

If it's the colors that are messing with you, I believe you can change them in the settings.


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Treat my posts like the Bible. I am fallible, subject to human limitation, and usually open to interpretation.

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Invisiblefngbronco
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Re: Why do mushrooms produce psilocybin/psilocin? [Re: Masticore]
    #14117686 - 03/14/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If none of you have seen it might I recommend watching "Animals Are Beautiful People" it's an old nature show from the 70s and it shows drunken elephants as well as giraffes and other creatures. It's a funny movie as well but I've got a weird taste in movies.

As for the psilocybin and what not, you're all wrong, it's cuz dog made it that way.....or mushrooms just dream a lot and have super tryptamine levels.


--------------------
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Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not.    -fngbronco

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