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Offline31okiL
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Ego Death
    #14117084 - 03/13/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

For anyone with knowledge of ego death or anyone that has been through it, is ego death automatic enlightenment?  Ap permanent shift in outlook for the positive or is it still left up to you for the largest part?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Ego Death [Re: 31okiL]
    #14117097 - 03/13/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Not necessarily.  An awakening experience can take a while to fully set in as far as its effects onto your life.  Samadhi and liberation don't have to occur at the exact same time.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlinethedudeman
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Re: Ego Death [Re: 31okiL]
    #14117107 - 03/13/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i don't think enlightenment is possible, because it's defined in so many different ways

ego death is a temporary thing generally during a trip or sometimes meditation that may change how you view yourself in relation to others or the world, or everything in existence

although it's impossible to live without ego, you can lose it for temporary periods of time which can help progression towards a more spiritual self


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Ego Death [Re: 31okiL]
    #14118691 - 03/14/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

...permanent shift in outlook for the positive...




I experienced allot of shadow material hence I think things can go either way depending on how you handle yourself during the experience.  I feel your choices during matter and will set up how the experience unfolds.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Ego Death [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14121214 - 03/14/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But once you know the atman, you have the tool you need to purge your shadow thought by thought


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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: Ego Death [Re: g00ru]
    #14121254 - 03/14/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well i believe people can "go back" learn to die, leave the body. The rebirthing process, is basically you could call ego death but in away that is liberating and you have control over your experience and it not be in control by some deity, drug experience, or some other source of external significants.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Ego Death [Re: p4kSouL]
    #14121426 - 03/14/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yes, my greatest awakening experience was to me a fresh start...it gives you a chance to make yourself over in whatever image you like due to the death of the old


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ego Death [Re: g00ru]
    #14121593 - 03/14/11 08:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
But once you know the atman, you have the tool you need to purge your shadow thought by thought




Purge?  Fighting your shadow only makes it stronger; I'd say we rather need to embrace it and subsequently transcend our darker side.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: Ego Death [Re: 31okiL]
    #14122003 - 03/14/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

31okiL said:
For anyone with knowledge of ego death or anyone that has been through it, is ego death automatic enlightenment?  Ap permanent shift in outlook for the positive or is it still left up to you for the largest part?




No, it is not 100 percent automatic enlightenment in the Buddha sense, but it could be considered 100 percent enlightenment if you considere an above average gain of insight and perspective shift.


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I am a chronic liar.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Ego Death [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #14122754 - 03/14/11 11:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

guruu said:
But once you know the atman, you have the tool you need to purge your shadow thought by thought




Purge?  Fighting your shadow only makes it stronger; I'd say we rather need to embrace it and subsequently transcend our darker side.




when i say purge, i mean you see the thoughts come up and let them fly away

like say you are really anxious and normally your thought is "uh oh time to freak out"

stay as the self, see that thought, and let it fly away...:gethigh:


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineZenXi6
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Re: Ego Death [Re: Seanfu]
    #14122980 - 03/14/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've been discussing ego death with my girlfriend a lot lately. 

I'm sure I've experienced either ego death or something similar to it in the past. 

On stronger psychedelic journeys, I have confronted some horrid things about my psyche and subconscious.  Especially to do with the way I view myself, the way that interacts with my perception on the world, and what further reaching points that means.

I believe there are stages of coming to terms with yourself, and I think ego death is an important one of those stages (perhaps the final one?).


The hardest thing I've had to deal with over the past few years is my own perception of myself, specifically, the traits to which I am quite aware annoy others, and the things I do that annoy others. 

As social creatures I believe that we subconsciously do desire the acceptance of others.  Some to different levels than others, but through language and culture we have developed a far vaster variety of emotions and attitudes toward the social landscape of humanity.. from apathy to empathy...

I must admit, I'm actually having trouble writing this post, because ego death is such a subjective term, and ego is a hard thing to define (Where are the bounds of the ego?  What does the term ego specifically refer to?).

I don't particularly like the fields of psychology for this reason, they are steeped in the most subjective of territories and this makes it difficult/impossible to prove anything.


Ego Death, to me, is lowering the boundaries between self and Universe to such an extent that an understanding of self becomes somewhat incomprehensible.  Trying to understand anything to do with you, your needs, you as an individual become difficult and nonsensical.  In this state, it may be far easier to analyse the 'ego', as it seems a distant tale, you are separated from the emotion of being one with it, and can more wholly see a picture you couldn't once see outside of. 

What you do in that state of being is solely up to you, and does certainly not necessarily mean enlightenment (depending on your definition).

I heard a good quote once, that I think refers to some of the revelations people typically feel during / after ego death:



SO GLAD I JUST FOUND THIS!  I only heard the "devils become angels" part as a sample in a proggy, psytrancey mix.. and I was just looking for it.. and I can't frikin remember which one it is.. and I have lots.. and they're all 60+ mins...

So, it turns out it's from this movie, and now I want to watch this movie.

Ego Death is about perception, of yourself and how that self interacts with another and all other.  It's about facing demons from a different subjective point of view (Though I am tempted to describe it as heading toward objectivity... but I fear that is a misuse of the word...)


--------------------
We are the Divine Universe, Incarnate!


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Offlineshaggy101
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Re: Ego Death [Re: 31okiL]
    #14123032 - 03/15/11 12:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ive never experienced ego death
ego loss is a trip though,

I would hypothesis "you" would laugh alot though... and space out

or i guess it could be scary..like ego loss often is

but How?

if your ego truely died would you be at a loss and then a new you start to form?

or would you reach that crazy state pass the fear
find the groove and still be a human?

considering the physical distractions?


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InvisibleExcessiveSamsara
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Re: Ego Death [Re: ZenXi6]
    #14123751 - 03/15/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ZenXi6 said:
I believe there are stages of coming to terms with yourself, and I think ego death is an important one of those stages (perhaps the final one?).

-

So, it turns out it's from this movie, and now I want to watch this movie.





when the ego completely recedes, all that is left is the one source.  it would be the final stage, with all preliminary stages being steps of release from the ego.  the ego, being the conceptual image of ourselves, is all that stands between the idea of I and existing without a self image.  but even enlightened beings still retain an ego,  it's just they do not identify with this image anymore and are full expressions of their actual being.

that movie, as you know, is jacob's ladder.  i've only seen it once, a good while ago, but i remember enjoying it.  a psychological thriller for sure.  also tim robbins is a really great actor.


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OfflineSeanfu
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Re: Ego Death [Re: ExcessiveSamsara]
    #14124459 - 03/15/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ExcessiveSamsara said:
Quote:

ZenXi6 said:
I believe there are stages of coming to terms with yourself, and I think ego death is an important one of those stages (perhaps the final one?).

-

So, it turns out it's from this movie, and now I want to watch this movie.





when the ego completely recedes, all that is left is the one source.  it would be the final stage, with all preliminary stages being steps of release from the ego.  the ego, being the conceptual image of ourselves, is all that stands between the idea of I and existing without a self image.  but even enlightened beings still retain an ego,  it's just they do not identify with this image anymore and are full expressions of their actual being.

that movie, as you know, is jacob's ladder.  i've only seen it once, a good while ago, but i remember enjoying it.  a psychological thriller for sure.  also tim robbins is a really great actor.




The ego can't recede. It is a mechanism that allows for one perspective functionality. At LEAST you would have to entirely remove personality before someone could become "egoless"


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I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Ego Death [Re: ExcessiveSamsara]
    #14124550 - 03/15/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ExcessiveSamsara said:
Quote:

ZenXi6 said:
I believe there are stages of coming to terms with yourself, and I think ego death is an important one of those stages (perhaps the final one?).

-

So, it turns out it's from this movie, and now I want to watch this movie.





when the ego completely recedes, all that is left is the one source.  it would be the final stage, with all preliminary stages being steps of release from the ego.  the ego, being the conceptual image of ourselves, is all that stands between the idea of I and existing without a self image.  but even enlightened beings still retain an ego,  it's just they do not identify with this image anymore and are full expressions of their actual being.

that movie, as you know, is jacob's ladder.  i've only seen it once, a good while ago, but i remember enjoying it.  a psychological thriller for sure.  also tim robbins is a really great actor.




no, ego death is the end of that which could even come up with something called an "idea" such as yours. or maybe not :shrug:

we'd all like to think we've got it.  do you really know what it is to be dead? I can see or maybe have seen my death but I don't know what its like to actually do it

:dontspillme:


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



Edited by the bizzle (03/15/11 11:31 AM)


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InvisibleExcessiveSamsara
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Re: Ego Death [Re: the bizzle]
    #14124778 - 03/15/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seanfu said:

The ego can't recede. It is a mechanism that allows for one perspective functionality. At LEAST you would have to entirely remove personality before someone could become "egoless"




the ego, my sense of self, my identity, my separation from everything else, is illusory.  i know this but i'm still run by the ego.  we all, typing on this forum, still identify with our personality/ego/self.  when the ego recedes/regresses/falls away, what is left is our true nature.  when you break through the illusion, there is no separateness, no identity.  the illusion of duality is over.

i define ego and personality as near identical, but personality i describe as more a cultural image, a "personalized" representation of views provided by other personalities, reflected from your personality;  whereas ego can be just this same, but is maybe a bit more of an internalized sense of self, removed further from outside influences than the "personality" which relates to and is related to by other people.  so if you remove/move beyond/accept the illusory nature of the personality, it is the same as letting go of the ego, basically.  to be egoless is to possess no self, no separation from the one source. 

but even to speak of someone, us, getting rid of the ego/ourselves, is obviously a paradox.  in actuality, there is nothing to move beyond; how do we move into or beyond an illusion?  we are one right now, connected with the source.  it is the total realization of this that mystics define enlightenment.  it seems then life is a continuing series of short enlightenments, quick "no thoughts", where "I" exist without identifying with a conceptual "I"

this is a great quote by leo hartong.  "Enlightenment appears as a goal that one can reach only as long as there is the illusion of a separate entity or ego."

and another..."the ego will fight as hard to survive as the seeker will fight to kill it. the moment when the ego caves in, the hallucination of a separate self is exposed as a magical illusion produced by the universal Self. the personal identity dissolves into the Source just as a drop of spray reunites with the ocean."


--------------------
/\_/\/\__/\__/\/\/\_/\/\__/\/\___/\_/\__/\_/\/\__/\


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