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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Paps. ?
#14115583 - 03/13/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Habitat: California lower sierra-nevada foot hills right above Coloma. About 2800-3000 ft elevation. Years old horse dung. It has been raining a lot with really warm sunny days in-between. No more frost.
Cap: See pics.
Stem: All are shiny and fibrous, some are spiraled like on subs, others are straight fibers. Some were really thick while others were skinny. All bruised brown instantly as the color inside of the stems. Looking at them now, they are black.
Gills: See pics.
I am very interested in trying Panaeolus papilionaceus for any possible medicinal/dietary values and to see if they are active in some way. I have heard, as mjshroomer says, that there are many indole alkaloids in the Panaeolus. I have even heard a story of a maybe six year old girl who was eating supposedly inactive Panaeolus mushrooms an the regular. She did so naturally, feeling an intuitively good taste and effect from the mushrooms. These are some of the most common mushrooms in the world. Could they be an important part to a very balanced beautiful diet? Which of these substances pass the blood-brain barrier? Or maybe more accurately, what circumstances allow them to pass?
I would like to know as much about these mushrooms as I can.
MJ? Someone else?
Thank you
Love is in the Earth, centerthedream
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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BTW,
I am sure most, if not all of them, had white teeth on the edge of the caps.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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ya those are looking like Panaeolus papilionacious, not active for sure. i have no idea if they have any medicinal value to them.
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Thank you. Awaiting mjshroomer's words in particular. He has specific purpose behind knowing about Panaeolus papilionacious.
Also looking for any who have had personal experience with these, or know the history and studies into them.
Have you tried them before?
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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groople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Thank you. Awaiting mjshroomer's words in particular. He has specific purpose behind knowing about Panaeolus papilionacious.
Mjshroomer is no longer a part of the shroomery community.
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ShockValue
Because, ShockValue.

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
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Re: Paps. ? [Re: groople]
#14116338 - 03/13/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I came around after mjshroomer left this forum, but through contacts on facebook, he wrote to me a few times. I have to say, he's a total nut-job
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- When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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he was an old nut back when he came and picked with me in 1999, he's a ripper , i dont know anyone like him!
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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How do I contact him?
Besides that then, I will wait for anyone with in-depth knowledge or experience with these mushrooms.
Could any of them be P. papilionaceus var. parvisporus?
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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here's a thread of someone stating the Paps they found were active if you're interested. hope it helps.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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i dont beleive it.
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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I'm not one to make a habit out of not believing, but I'm with you on this one psylo.
however, I should quote, since it's relevant, Mr. Stamets writing on Panaeolus, "Several species are consistent or latent producers of psilocybin and/or psilocin."
and Arora writing, "Actually, there is considerable confusion as to which species are pupil-dilating. Traces of psilocybin have been isolated in virtually every species, but it's presence and concentration is contingent upon a number of genetic, geographic, and environmental factors."
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ShockValue
Because, ShockValue.

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
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Well if the scientists and classifiers are right that they're closely related to P.cinctulus, it wouldn't surprise me too much if there was some psilo{cybin|cin} to be found. However, since there aren't hoards of people out trying to find and consume them, I would speculate it was very very low.
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- When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Thank you Ryath. I know of the thread, and it is in large part what helped direct me to posting now. 
I am not as concerned with the psilocybin content of paps. More so though, I really want to know what else is in there, medicinal or psychoactive, in a dietary context. I have strong reason to believe that many of these Panaeolus species are so wide spread because they are meant to be used in dietary or medicinal ways.
This thread is only a jumping point for me. If any of you know where I would go to for more info, that would be great.
mjshroomer's contact information would be wonderful.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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ShockValue
Because, ShockValue.

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
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Wait, are you suggesting that if something is widespread, that it's a sign that we're supposed to ingest it?
Edit: If you know what MJ stands for in MJShroomer, it's quite easy to google and find his info.
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- When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.
Edited by ShockValue (03/13/11 10:32 PM)
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groople
Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 401
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
centerthedream said: Thank you Ryath. I know of the thread, and it is in large part what helped direct me to posting now. 
I am not as concerned with the psilocybin content of paps. More so though, I really want to know what else is in there, medicinal or psychoactive, in a dietary context. I have strong reason to believe that many of these Panaeolus species are so wide spread because they are meant to be used in dietary or medicinal ways.
This thread is only a jumping point for me. If any of you know where I would go to for more info, that would be great.
mjshroomer's contact information would be wonderful.
It's easily googleable
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
centerthedream said: Thank you Ryath. I know of the thread, and it is in large part what helped direct me to posting now. 
I am not as concerned with the psilocybin content of paps. More so though, I really want to know what else is in there, medicinal or psychoactive, in a dietary context. I have strong reason to believe that many of these Panaeolus species are so wide spread because they are meant to be used in dietary or medicinal ways.
no problem I'm glad to spread knowledge. 
and sorry to stereotype you; I missed your point of interest in assuming the majority of others are here for activity-searching purposes only... here's some more from Stamets:
"Most all produce urea, serotonin, and tryptophan, and/or the precursors and derivatives (Stijve 1987). None have proven to be poisonous."
on dietary value, there is a thread from Cactu floating around showing some pan ants going into a shrimp satuee with some stir-fry or some such goodness. not sure if paps taste any good, but you can always do some culinary experimenting for giggles, if not a satisfied belly.
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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No. I am suggesting though that if something is wide-spread, then it's purpose is wide spread as well and inter-meshed with many other natural functions. This would also make the thing's core quality even that much easier to identify. All other interactions are dove-tailed from one core quality or function.
My reason for believing Panaeolus specie's purpose as something to be ingested comes from elsewhere.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
centerthedream said: My reason for believing Panaeolus specie's purpose as something to be ingested comes from elsewhere.
share?
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Thank you shock-value and Ryath.
I should have known before that I could search for his contact info easily. Now doing.
And thank you again Ryath. No problem about the stereo-typing. I figured that it was self explanatory what many on here are after when mentioning possible actives. If these are active in some way, all the better I still say. 
I am definitely going to experiment with these much to me, and maybe even my stomach's pleasure.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 10 hours, 9 minutes
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You can contact mj on facebook or on mycotopia under the account "Man of Knowledge".
Your mushrooms are Panaeolus papilionaceus.
Eat them and see what happens and let us know.
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Ryath said:
Quote:
centerthedream said: My reason for believing Panaeolus specie's purpose as something to be ingested comes from elsewhere.
share?
First and foremost, I heard a story about a young little girl, maybe five or younger, who ate some Panaeolus species from her parent's lawn regularly. Her parents did not know. She started to act strangely and her parents took note. Eventually she was confronted about mushrooms growing in the front yard of their home. She said something along the lines of how tasty they were and that she liked them. When young children are uninhibited by opposed systems, their subconscious minds begin to bud and unfold, through experience, into a conscious mind. During this period, the child will strive to taste from everything that they come to meet in their world, and their body will react accordingly depending on the relationship the new object has with the little one's body itself.
This was the first indicator. Then I considered how wide spread these mushrooms are. Second indicator. Third, I followed with my conscious mind and feeling the strings of relationships that lead from the mushrooms out into the world.
From this many connections formed in my mind, many of which are still only intuitive and not fully given to form. These mushrooms are found where most animals similar to our natural diets eat. They are also found from their dung, seemingly going to work on maximizing the use of the energy still inside of the plant matter. The spores are black or purple. Black and mushrooms has been shown to have a strong link with melatonin and melanin type functions, with lots of energy being drawn from the sun and put to work. What would a sun-linked mushroom be doing with the energy it draws from plant matter? The fibers of the stems of many of these mushrooms are ascending in clockwise vortices. Clockwise is genero-active as apposed to radio-active (the repellent force of the universe). Black and the function of melatonin and melanin are genero-active. I felt a deep love and responsibility for the well being of left over energy being accumulated and distributed for use across the living landscape.
All of this I saw for P. paps. On the side, I can already see many links to how these principles would play out in the other species as well. I feel I now have a comprehensive view of what I would look for to see these principles play out in the life of P. paps. Paps also don't flatten out with age. Perhaps if it where to be measured, paps would be the most paramagnetic of Panaeolus species? From my experiments and studies, I believe paramagnetism is the same as genero-active force.
Many bits and pieces, but I am still trying to follow the image to see where it takes me. I recognize that this kind of knowledge acquirement will seem at the very least strange to many of you, so I share this with good confidence of understanding.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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Primal Call
Earth Mage



Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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I'm all with you on opposing the system, but in the young girl's case, she could just as easily have been playing in a woodchipped yard area where deadlies decided to pop up, and they are widespread as well. an organisms' prevalence does not provide justification for it's purpose. (take humans for example; we are, currently, exponential blight) this is not to say a species widespread hasn't evolved to thrive in it's ecological niche. obviously, it has. however, the occurrence of the niche plays a vital role in encouraging the distribution of an organism adapted to such circumstances.
not sure what you mean by "animals similar to our natural diet"... they are part of humans' "natural" diet or they have a diet similar to us? <--- which, last time I checked, ruminants and/or horses are a lot better at harvesting the sun's energy from cellulosic organisms than we are...
finally, you lost me on the black/melatonin/magnetism/genero-active stuff mostly because I know little about these relationships and I have no idea what genero-activity is. as far as distribution, evolution, nutrition, and the prevalence of species, I'm vastly interested and partially educated. 
lastly, this is great stuff! I love off-the-wall discussions like this. Also, don't let my counter-points deter you. True inspiration, as you are presumably experiencing these realizations, can lead to great things!
edit: we're in the wrong forum...
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centerthedream
I'm Ripe

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 95
Loc: Bardabaya
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Ryath said:
edit: we're in the wrong forum...

HAHAHA, I know, right?
Don't worry about the deterring part. I go into a conversation recognizing that unless me and the other have exchanged a certain amount of information before hand, the conclusions drawn or expressed by them will be premature. That is to say I believe there are many more levels that are easily over-looked about a subject when one is adhering to how most modern cultures have been taught to arrange information.
For example, if the part of a child's body that exchanges information with the substances that enters his body is intact and working as it should, the body will react accordingly. Example, vomiting up a piece of a deadly mushroom the child may have eaten before it starts to be digested. The inability to do this or other simple bodily tasks comes from trauma before, during, and after pregnancy. This mechanism is called the limbic imprint, and it influences the development of all other bodily systems. Trauma is not a required part of living for Man. It results when the space of love and integrity enveloping the child, or even full grown Man, is broken. The reference point for all relationships is trashed, and his senses are forced to draw new conclusions.
Man has been acting like a blight because he has been forced by others who had a quicker speed of thought to draw hasty, inappropriate conclusions. Traumatized humans with a quicker speed of thought than their kin is what cancer looks like.
At any rate, off-the-wall, YEAH?! Let the inspiration flow!!!
I am drying out the paps seen in the photos as we speak. Looks like I am having them for breakfast.
-------------------- The Ringing Cedars of Russia This seed in the ground, Shining all around, For all else to see him; Would like to shine bright, All of his light, So even more of it you are receiving. Ask me about a "Special Designers Technology".
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masspan
l'eclair


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,268
Loc:
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
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i found a bunch of paps growing with cincts a few springs ago and could have sworn they looked active as well, but i didn't collect them to try, bad move because they haven't come back yet. this whole panaeolopsis things is intriguing also, i am going to do better harvesting this season 
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my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus
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