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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Poid]
    #14113635 - 03/13/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The Ottoman Empire was not attacked justly?  They were part of the German side in WW1.  They fucking lost.  The Brits got conquerors rights.  They carved up the entire middle east.  They replaced many of the borders in Europe.  Are you now going to declare the European borders illegitimate?

Just fucking stop.  The Israelis got a tiny little fucking sliver of resource barren land.  Other groups, notably Muslim and often Arab, got other pieces, much larger and with vast oil wealth.  Stop this fucking whinging about the evil Jew.  It's stupid and carries a distinct whiff of envy because they have managed to create a successful country whilst all around them the 6th century morons, with vastly greater amounts of land and resources, have utterly squandered everything they were given.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14113695 - 03/13/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Ottoman Empire was not attacked justly?  They were part of the German side in WW1.


What do you mean by "part of the German side"? Just because they harbored German ships and allowed them passage means that they were part of their side? Again, the Ottomans were not responsible for the attack on Russia that led Britain and France to declare war on them:

On November 2 the Grand Vizier expressed regret to Allies for the operations of the Navy. The Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Sazonov declared that it was too late and that Russia considered this raid an act of war. The Ottoman Cabinet explained in vain that hostilities were begun without its sanction by German officers serving in the Navy. The Allies insisted on reparations to Russia, the dismissal of German officers from the Goeben and Breslau, and the internment of the German ships until the end of the war.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They fucking lost.  The Brits got conquerors rights.  They carved up the entire middle east.  They replaced many of the borders in EuropeAre you now going to declare the European borders illegitimate?


Strawman much? They lost a war that they never started, they were blamed for an attack that they weren't responsible for; if you have proof that shows that it's not true that the hostilities were begun without their sanction by, then I'd like to see it.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Just fucking stop.  The Israelis got a tiny little fucking sliver of resource barren land.  Other groups, notably Muslim and often Arab, got other pieces, much larger and with vast oil wealth.


Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? The fact of the matter is that the Ottomans were invaded even though they never attacked anybody.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Stop this fucking whinging about the evil Jew.


Stop this stupid projection, why the fuck is everybody who suggests that Jews may not be so innocent in this matter accused of anti-semitism? It distracts from the actual discussion and is fucking weak. I'm just going by what the evidence tells me, and like I've said before, I think all religious people are crazy and I don't favor either over any other.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's stupid and carries a distinct whiff of envy because they have managed to create a successful country whilst all around them the 6th century morons, with vastly greater amounts of land and resources, have utterly squandered everything they were given.


Why the fuck would I be envious of them if I don't live in those other lands who have utterly squandered everything they were given? And how is Israel's success as a country relevant at all to this discussion? Sounds to me like you're bragging for them, which would pretty fucking stupid and only goes to show your bias on the matter. :jew:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (03/13/11 11:44 AM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Poid]
    #14113792 - 03/13/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Ottoman Empire was not attacked justly?  They were part of the German side in WW1.


What do you mean by "part of the German side"? Just because they harbored German ships and allowed them passage means that they were part of their side? Again, the Ottomans were not responsible for the attack on Russia that led Britain and France to declare war on them:

On November 2 the Grand Vizier expressed regret to Allies for the operations of the Navy. The Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Sazonov declared that it was too late and that Russia considered this raid an act of war. The Ottoman Cabinet explained in vain that hostilities were begun without its sanction by German officers serving in the Navy. The Allies insisted on reparations to Russia, the dismissal of German officers from the Goeben and Breslau, and the internment of the German ships until the end of the war.




Awwww, he apologized.  How sweet.
Quote:






Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They fucking lost.  The Brits got conquerors rights.  They carved up the entire middle east.  They replaced many of the borders in EuropeAre you now going to declare the European borders illegitimate?


Strawman much? They lost a war that they never started, they were blamed for an attack that they weren't responsible for; if you have proof that shows that it's not true that the hostilities were begun without their sanction by, then I'd like to see it.




What's good for one is good for all.  Try some consistency.  Either both sets of borders are legitimate or neither is.  If they weren't responsible for the attack why did they apologize?
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Just fucking stop.  The Israelis got a tiny little fucking sliver of resource barren land.  Other groups, notably Muslim and often Arab, got other pieces, much larger and with vast oil wealth.


Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? The fact of the matter is that the Ottomans were invaded even though they never attacked anybody.




Everything.  And clearly, they were complicit.  Else they would not have apologized. 
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Stop this fucking whinging about the evil Jew.


Stop this stupid projection, why the fuck is everybody who suggests that Jews may not be so innocent in this matter accused of anti-semitism? It distracts from the actual discussion and is fucking weak. I'm just going by what the evidence tells me, and like I've said before, I think all religious people are crazy and I don't favor neither over any other.




I'm sorry but the opposition in this is also Semitic so it isn't anti-Semitism.  It's anti-Jew.  And do you really think that overnight you have achieved a cogent understanding of the Ottoman Empire and the dissolution and struggles in the Mid-east following WW1?  Just yesterday you said you didn't know anything about it.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's stupid and carries a distinct whiff of envy because they have managed to create a successful country whilst all around them the 6th century morons, with vastly greater amounts of land and resources, have utterly squandered everything they were given.


Why the fuck would I be envious of them if I don't live in those other lands who have utterly squandered everything they were given? And how is Israel's success as a country relevant at all to this discussion? Sounds to me like you're bragging for them, which would pretty fucking stupid and only goes to show your bias on the matter. :jew:




The fact of the matter is that I was not predisposed to favoring either side.  I am not a twenty-something tyro who opened a history book for the first time.  My disgust for the Pallies has been well earned by them through a lifetime of observation.  Equally my respect for what the Israelis have managed to accomplish the result of a lifetime's observation.  They have built a vibrant viable nation out of shit.  They have defended themselves successfully against hundreds of millions bent on their destruction, hundreds of millions, I might add, who have made utter shit out of their nations with their hatred and incompetence.  Accepting the obvious fact, available to all with eyes to see, that the 6th century morons are hate-filled, envious and incompetent, is not a sign of bias.  What have any of the Muslim nations accomplished in almost a century of control of some of the most resource rich parts of the globe?  Shit and murder.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14113949 - 03/13/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Ottoman Empire was not attacked justly?  They were part of the German side in WW1.


What do you mean by "part of the German side"? Just because they harbored German ships and allowed them passage means that they were part of their side? Again, the Ottomans were not responsible for the attack on Russia that led Britain and France to declare war on them:

On November 2 the Grand Vizier expressed regret to Allies for the operations of the Navy. The Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Sazonov declared that it was too late and that Russia considered this raid an act of war. The Ottoman Cabinet explained in vain that hostilities were begun without its sanction by German officers serving in the Navy. The Allies insisted on reparations to Russia, the dismissal of German officers from the Goeben and Breslau, and the internment of the German ships until the end of the war.




Awwww, he apologized.  How sweet.


He apologized because his people were in the ship that carried out the attack, not because he was responsible for carrying out the attack.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Strawman much? They lost a war that they never started, they were blamed for an attack that they weren't responsible for; if you have proof that shows that it's not true that the hostilities were begun without their sanction by, then I'd like to see it.


What's good for one is good for all.  Try some consistency.  Either both sets of borders are legitimate or neither is.  If they weren't responsible for the attack why did they apologize?


So you don't have proof?

Like I said they apologized for being on the ship that carried out the attack, not for executing it.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? The fact of the matter is that the Ottomans were invaded even though they never attacked anybody.




Everything.  And clearly, they were complicit.  Else they would not have apologized.


hostilities were begun without its sanction

They were complicit, but not to a degree that it would warrant the punishment they received; they did not execute or sanction any attack.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Stop this stupid projection, why the fuck is everybody who suggests that Jews may not be so innocent in this matter accused of anti-semitism? It distracts from the actual discussion and is fucking weak. I'm just going by what the evidence tells me, and like I've said before, I think all religious people are crazy and I don't favor neither over any other.




I'm sorry but the opposition in this is also Semitic so it isn't anti-Semitism.  It's anti-Jew.


So now I'm a racist?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And do you really think that overnight you have achieved a cogent understanding of the Ottoman Empire and the dissolution and struggles in the Mid-east following WW1?  Just yesterday you said you didn't know anything about it.


I already told you that I haven't studied this since 9th grade, and have forgotten most of it since then; the review that I've done recently about it refreshed my memory.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Why the fuck would I be envious of them if I don't live in those other lands who have utterly squandered everything they were given? And how is Israel's success as a country relevant at all to this discussion? Sounds to me like you're bragging for them, which would pretty fucking stupid and only goes to show your bias on the matter. :jew:




The fact of the matter is that I was not predisposed to favoring either side.


And you're suggesting that I was? How many times do I have to tell you that I hate all religions?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a twenty-something tyro who opened a history book for the first time.


Again, I learned about the Ottomans long ago, and just needed to do some review.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My disgust for the Pallies has been well earned by them through a lifetime of observation.  Equally my respect for what the Israelis have managed to accomplish the result of a lifetime's observation. They have built a vibrant viable nation out of shit.


Yeah, with the help of other countries.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They have defended themselves successfully against hundreds of millions bent on their destruction, hundreds of millions, I might add, who have made utter shit out of their nations with their hatred and incompetence.


Defended themselves? Israel first formed by world powers and is still protected today by world powers.

Why does it matter what they do with their nations, how is it relevant to this discussion? You're just spouting out a bunch of hatred...:arabs:


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Accepting the obvious fact, available to all with eyes to see, that the 6th century morons are hate-filled, envious and incompetent, is not a sign of bias.  What have any of the Muslim nations accomplished in almost a century of control of some of the most resource rich parts of the globe?  Shit and murder.


:rofl:


I seriously don't see the point in you mentioning this, other than to express your hatred for Palestine for some reason. :shrug2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Poid]
    #14114063 - 03/13/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Ottoman Empire was not attacked justly?  They were part of the German side in WW1.


What do you mean by "part of the German side"? Just because they harbored German ships and allowed them passage means that they were part of their side? Again, the Ottomans were not responsible for the attack on Russia that led Britain and France to declare war on them:

On November 2 the Grand Vizier expressed regret to Allies for the operations of the Navy. The Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Sazonov declared that it was too late and that Russia considered this raid an act of war. The Ottoman Cabinet explained in vain that hostilities were begun without its sanction by German officers serving in the Navy. The Allies insisted on reparations to Russia, the dismissal of German officers from the Goeben and Breslau, and the internment of the German ships until the end of the war.




Awwww, he apologized.  How sweet.


He apologized because his people were in the ship that carried out the attack, not because he was responsible for carrying out the attack.




Do you really think that was the only reason?  Just fucking stop.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Strawman much? They lost a war that they never started, they were blamed for an attack that they weren't responsible for; if you have proof that shows that it's not true that the hostilities were begun without their sanction by, then I'd like to see it.


What's good for one is good for all.  Try some consistency.  Either both sets of borders are legitimate or neither is.  If they weren't responsible for the attack why did they apologize?


So you don't have proof?

Like I said they apologized for being on the ship that carried out the attack, not for executing it.




See above.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? The fact of the matter is that the Ottomans were invaded even though they never attacked anybody.




Everything.  And clearly, they were complicit.  Else they would not have apologized.




hostilities were begun without its sanction

They were complicit, but not to a degree that it would warrant the punishment they received; they did not execute or sanction any attack.



See above
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Stop this stupid projection, why the fuck is everybody who suggests that Jews may not be so innocent in this matter accused of anti-semitism? It distracts from the actual discussion and is fucking weak. I'm just going by what the evidence tells me, and like I've said before, I think all religious people are crazy and I don't favor neither over any other.




I'm sorry but the opposition in this is also Semitic so it isn't anti-Semitism.  It's anti-Jew.


So now I'm a racist?




Is Jew a race?  No, I am accusing you of ignorance, something you admitted to just yesterday
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And do you really think that overnight you have achieved a cogent understanding of the Ottoman Empire and the dissolution and struggles in the Mid-east following WW1?  Just yesterday you said you didn't know anything about it.


I already told you that I haven't studied this since 9th grade, and have forgotten most of it since then; the review that I've done recently about it refreshed my memory.




I am sure it was comprehensive.
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/easteurope/turkeycentral.html
Two major factors led to Ottoman involvement on the side of the Central Powers: German pressure and the opportunism of Turkish minister of war Enver Pasha. Other motives for joining the Central Powers were the German victories early in the War and Turkey's friction with the Triple Entente. Germany's aim was clear: to keep Turkey from joining the enemy (and by gaining Ottoman support, encourage Romania and Bulgaria to enter the Alliance). The German military mission of 1913 to Turkey under Liman von Sanders organized the Turkish army and navy under German leadership and brought forth the Turco-German Alliance. The secret treaty (only five people in Turkey were aware of it, one being Enver Pasha) was signed 2 August 1914.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Why the fuck would I be envious of them if I don't live in those other lands who have utterly squandered everything they were given? And how is Israel's success as a country relevant at all to this discussion? Sounds to me like you're bragging for them, which would pretty fucking stupid and only goes to show your bias on the matter. :jew:




The fact of the matter is that I was not predisposed to favoring either side.


And you're suggesting that I was? How many times do I have to tell you that I hate all religions?




It is unrelated to religion except for the hatred of the Muzzies.  You're the one who accused me of bias.  I just accuse you of ignorance.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I am not a twenty-something tyro who opened a history book for the first time.


Again, I learned about the Ottomans long ago, and just needed to do some review.




Pretty shoddy if your idea of review is wiki.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My disgust for the Pallies has been well earned by them through a lifetime of observation.  Equally my respect for what the Israelis have managed to accomplish the result of a lifetime's observation. They have built a vibrant viable nation out of shit.


Yeah, with the help of other countries.




Not that much when you consider that the help is all military.  They don't get economic help, unlike the Pallies.  Lots of nations get help. 
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They have defended themselves successfully against hundreds of millions bent on their destruction, hundreds of millions, I might add, who have made utter shit out of their nations with their hatred and incompetence.


Defended themselves? Israel first formed by world powers and is still protected today by world powers.




Name me one nation that has ever supplied troops to fight for Israel.  And every nation in the mid-east was formed by world powers.  Are you ever going to get that?
Quote:



Why does it matter what they do with their nations, how is it relevant to this discussion? You're just spouting out a bunch of hatred...:arabs:




Like I hate John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy.  Of course, I don't hate them because they're stupid shitholes full of hatred and incompetence.  I hate them because they are murderous morons riddled with religious fanaticism.  Israelis are not attacking because of religion.  They are being attacked because of religion. 
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Accepting the obvious fact, available to all with eyes to see, that the 6th century morons are hate-filled, envious and incompetent, is not a sign of bias.  What have any of the Muslim nations accomplished in almost a century of control of some of the most resource rich parts of the globe?  Shit and murder.


:rofl:


I seriously don't see the point in you mentioning this, other than to express your hatred for Palestine for some reason. :shrug2:




No relevance for you, huh?  That they are surrounded by hate filled failures envious of their success and bent on their destruction?


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: johnm214]
    #14114081 - 03/13/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
As the ottomans were attacked justly, after their aggressions and entrance into the war, their loss of sovereignty was justified.  Hence: the land wasn't stolen from anyone to create Israel.




Anyone except the people who actually lived there?  The fact that their dictatorial rulers fucked up and wrote them off means that they no longer have any claim over their homes?  Obviously they think otherwise.

If Arkansas was lost to a foreign power in a war and the occupying force tried to evict Arkansas-ans from their homes, I'm pretty sure you would support their right to resist.  If you would, how is this case different?  If you wouldn't, why wouldn't you?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14114311 - 03/13/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
As the ottomans were attacked justly, after their aggressions and entrance into the war, their loss of sovereignty was justified.  Hence: the land wasn't stolen from anyone to create Israel.




Anyone except the people who actually lived there?  The fact that their dictatorial rulers fucked up and wrote them off means that they no longer have any claim over their homes?  Obviously they think otherwise.

If Arkansas was lost to a foreign power in a war and the occupying force tried to evict Arkansas-ans from their homes, I'm pretty sure you would support their right to resist.  If you would, how is this case different?  If you wouldn't, why wouldn't you?




That would require the defeat of the entire country.  Stop THIS stupid shit, too.


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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14114377 - 03/13/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Just fucking stop.  The Israelis got a tiny little fucking sliver of resource barren land.  Other groups, notably Muslim and often Arab, got other pieces, much larger and with vast oil wealth.  Stop this fucking whinging about the evil Jew.  It's stupid and carries a distinct whiff of envy because they have managed to create a successful country whilst all around them the 6th century morons, with vastly greater amounts of land and resources, have utterly squandered everything they were given.




The suicide bombers are not coming from israel, The palestinians, their islamic leaders, the left are all inciting to violence against israel, this is true ,just like the japanese invaded the chinese and the reaction was very slow. so is the propaganda from everyone around the world so strong that both side are always armed with scientific propaganda though israel has the most sophisticated due to being an ally of the triumvrate of rotten democracy, america,canada,european union.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14114469 - 03/13/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
As the ottomans were attacked justly, after their aggressions and entrance into the war, their loss of sovereignty was justified.  Hence: the land wasn't stolen from anyone to create Israel.




Anyone except the people who actually lived there?  The fact that their dictatorial rulers fucked up and wrote them off means that they no longer have any claim over their homes?  Obviously they think otherwise.

If Arkansas was lost to a foreign power in a war and the occupying force tried to evict Arkansas-ans from their homes, I'm pretty sure you would support their right to resist.  If you would, how is this case different?  If you wouldn't, why wouldn't you?




That would require the defeat of the entire country.  Stop THIS stupid shit, too.




It may require the defeat of the entire country, it may not.  I didn't direct those questions at you originally, but I'd like to know how you'd answer the last two questions in my last post.  If the entire US was defeated leading up to the loss of Arkansas would you hold a different opinion than if it were annexed as part of an armistice?

If the entire country was defeated and occupied by a foreign power would you consider resistance groups to not be defending legitimate claims?

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: communeart]
    #14114582 - 03/13/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
The suicide bombers are not coming from israel, The palestinians, their islamic leaders, the left are all inciting to violence against israel, this is true




How is the left inciting violence against Israel? This is false and as I had earlier mentioned almost all non-Arab or non-muslim western intellectuals who are "anti-Israel" oppose conflict and endorse a peaceful solution.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14114717 - 03/13/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Quote:

communeart said:
The suicide bombers are not coming from israel, The palestinians, their islamic leaders, the left are all inciting to violence against israel, this is true




How is the left inciting violence against Israel? This is false and as I had earlier mentioned almost all non-Arab or non-muslim western intellectuals who are "anti-Israel" oppose conflict and endorse a peaceful solution.



Useful idiots encourage violence through weakness.  And just what do these fearsome warriors do to make a peaceful solution and oppose conflict?  They do dick, they are ineffectual, effete, useless jackasses who babble and blather and have no fucking spine.  They fail to understand that peace is maintained through strength.
"Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf"
Orwell.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14114923 - 03/13/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I really don't like agreeing with this but I have to logically.  The Native Americans were a great example of how this works.  When the weapons are primitive it doesn't seem nearly as nasty but it's really the same principle.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Icelander]
    #14115153 - 03/13/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't like agreeing with this but I have to logically.  The Native Americans were a great example of how this works.  When the weapons are primitive it doesn't seem nearly as nasty but it's really the same principle.




What that might makes right? There is no reason that the two parties can't co-exist peacefully, a large difficulty is the constant and sustained terrorism from the Jews against the native occupants of the land. The native Americans in north america are largely not currently at war with Canada or the USA, so WTF do you mean exactly?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14115217 - 03/13/11 05:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I would like to see how "successful? Israel is without money laundered from larcenous corrupt central bankers and billions in foreign aid.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14115301 - 03/13/11 05:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't like agreeing with this but I have to logically.  The Native Americans were a great example of how this works.  When the weapons are primitive it doesn't seem nearly as nasty but it's really the same principle.




What that might makes right? There is no reason that the two parties can't co-exist peacefully, a large difficulty is the constant and sustained terrorism from the Jews against the native occupants of the land. The native Americans in north america are largely not currently at war with Canada or the USA, so WTF do you mean exactly?



:lol: You just don't get it.  There is no reason that the whole world cannot get along and every man woman and child in all situations.  But we don't and that's the telling thing here.  Don't think your position is new in history. Some people have been suggesting we all get along throughout history to not much effect. So that leads to only one conclusion imo. Getting along and sharing equally is not really in our nature as a prime mover.  That's why (I keep saying this and it keeps getting  ignored) the oppressed when in power most often become the oppressors.  :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Shins]
    #14115311 - 03/13/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I would like to see how "successful? Israel is without money laundered from larcenous corrupt central bankers and billions in foreign aid.





Without the support of their friends they wouldn't exist. But now that they have nukes it might be a little dangerous to just abandon them to their fate. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Icelander]
    #14115430 - 03/13/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Why should they get less support from their friends than their enemies get from the great giant billion strong network of muzzy nutcases?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14115493 - 03/13/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Of course.  IMO since there really is no good guys in all of this it all comes down to who has the most powerful friends and who wins the wars. This tribe against tribe warfare over territory and resources is  as old as the human race.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: Icelander]
    #14115527 - 03/13/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Icelander if your going to break out the cliches I can one up you. In this instance people could all have just gotten along but the Israelis were in it to win it from the start. Their use of terrorism against the Arab population from the beginning had shown a refusal to make it work from the get-go and their recent refusal of peace agreements even despite the fact that Hamas agreed to all of it's demands shows a real refusal on the Israelis part to give peace a chance. All we are saying is that this is the fundamental reason why people don't like Israel's policy and think that countries like the US ought to come-by-a rational foreign policy that would lead to peace instead of dilly-dallying on the matter.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleShins
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your business? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14115687 - 03/13/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The US doesn't dilly dally, It fully supports it.


I want to add that not getting involved with this kind of European crusader bullshittery was part of the inspiration for the American revolution.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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