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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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who's the real enemy? 2
#14115273 - 03/13/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately. Plenty of it and easy to find. From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.
In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature. So isn't nature the real culprit here?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
#14115307 - 03/13/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.
In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature. So isn't nature the real culprit here?
But, but, corporations give us many luxuries and pay our paychecks!
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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capatalistic actions = enemy imo
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: rackem]
#14115559 - 03/13/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: andrewss]
#14115572 - 03/13/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: andrewss] 1
#14115578 - 03/13/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's not in our nature. That's a very dark conclusion. It's in the nature of our civilization which diseases the mind from birth.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes] 1
#14115813 - 03/13/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Whatever our nature may be at any given time, it's certainly subject to change in the interest of the species. If it weren't how could evolution occur?
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An Octopus
cephalopod


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes]
#14115824 - 03/13/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Greed.
Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.
-------------------- vibes and stuff
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes]
#14115855 - 03/13/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: It's not in our nature. That's a very dark conclusion. It's in the nature of our civilization which diseases the mind from birth.
I contend that well before civilization, tribal human groups had the same dynamic.
And civilization is an aspect of nature or it could not exist.
Back to the OP. Nature's creation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
#14115865 - 03/13/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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IMO the real enemy is the fact that we are nothing more than machines and are probably completely uninterested in all of the non survival related things we claim to be interested in regardless of whether they are mystical or not.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14115872 - 03/13/11 07:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Kinda.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] 1
#14115877 - 03/13/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
An Octopus said: Greed.
Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.
Why shouldn't I be greedy?
Quote:
Icelander said: Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately. Plenty of it and easy to find. From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.
In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature. So isn't nature the real culprit here?
If you define these types of things as "bad" then I guess you could say nature is the culprit. However, this is just a subjective emotional response with no real merit beyond that of a personal preference. IMO there is nothing truly "bad", it is what it is.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] 1
#14115884 - 03/13/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Too far even for the Icelander?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] 1
#14115927 - 03/13/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.
It is natural to get sick. It is natural for the body to fight the illness. If possible.. it is natural to heal and build immunity.
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: 4896744]
#14115966 - 03/13/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you define these types of things as "bad" then I guess you could say nature is the culprit. However, this is just a subjective emotional response with no real merit beyond that of a personal preference. IMO there is nothing truly "bad", it is what it is.
Yes I completely agree and that's where I was hoping to lead this discussion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
#14115972 - 03/13/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately. Plenty of it and easy to find. From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.
In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature. So isn't nature the real culprit here?
in a way, yes
you cant have my woman and land
they're mine
try to take them and i'll kill you
hey, look
i can kill things like a badass
look at my power
i caught all the fish in the lake
now i'm starving

and yet, there are those who fight to keep idiots from completely fucking it all up
perhaps the real enemy is bad parenting

but just about every question i could possibly have is pertaining to the nature of "nature", and i'm never entirely sure just what that is
so yea
nature
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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An Octopus
cephalopod


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: 4896744]
#14115993 - 03/13/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
An Octopus said: Greed.
Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.
Why shouldn't I be greedy?
Because it inhibits others from achieving their full potential, and because if you can't achieve your own potential without doing this, you are a crappy human being.
-------------------- vibes and stuff
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
#14116003 - 03/13/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Aren't we all greedy to some extent? Have you shared your excess wealth (beyond very basic food and shelter) with the needy?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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An Octopus
cephalopod


Registered: 03/11/11
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Loc: Indiana
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
#14116036 - 03/13/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's not what I mean, although I am fairly generous with my money and material goods. I don't think that people are mandated to share their wealth, but I do think that achieving this wealth through the exploitation or inhibition of others is immoral.
-------------------- vibes and stuff
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
#14116062 - 03/13/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
An Octopus said: That's not what I mean, although I am fairly generous with my money and material goods. I don't think that people are mandated to share their wealth, but I do think that achieving this wealth through the exploitation or inhibition of others is immoral.
There is a limited amount of resources. You live in America and seeing that you have internet, you are much wealthier than most of the world. It is wrong for you to live at the standard you do when people in Africa, Asia, and South America are starving and unable to live up to their full potential due to your greed.
Also, your computer was probably made in china. You are just splurging on things created by the capitalistic system at the expense of others who work for meager wages in poor conditions.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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