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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
who's the real enemy? * 2
    #14115273 - 03/13/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately.  Plenty of it and easy to find.  From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.

In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.  So isn't nature the real culprit here?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
    #14115307 - 03/13/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.

In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.  So isn't nature the real culprit here?




But, but, corporations give us many luxuries and pay our paychecks! :shocked:

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Invisiblerackem
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14115400 - 03/13/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

capatalistic actions = enemy imo


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 2 months, 15 days
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: rackem]
    #14115559 - 03/13/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:mattz:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: andrewss]
    #14115572 - 03/13/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:whacker:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: andrewss] * 1
    #14115578 - 03/13/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It's not in our nature. That's a very dark conclusion. It's in the nature of our civilization which diseases the mind from birth.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes] * 1
    #14115813 - 03/13/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Whatever our nature may be at any given time, it's certainly subject to change in the interest of the species. If it weren't how could evolution occur?


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OfflineAn Octopus
cephalopod
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Registered: 03/11/11
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Loc: Indiana
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes]
    #14115824 - 03/13/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Greed.

Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.


--------------------
vibes and stuff

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: circastes]
    #14115855 - 03/13/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
It's not in our nature. That's a very dark conclusion. It's in the nature of our civilization which diseases the mind from birth.





I contend that well before civilization, tribal human groups had the same dynamic.

And civilization is an aspect of nature or it could not exist.

Back to the OP.  Nature's creation.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
    #14115865 - 03/13/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

IMO the real enemy is the fact that we are nothing more than machines and are probably completely uninterested in all of the non survival related things we claim to be interested in regardless of whether they are mystical or not.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14115872 - 03/13/11 07:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Kinda.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14115877 - 03/13/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

An Octopus said:
Greed.

Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.




Why shouldn't I be greedy?

Quote:

Icelander said:
Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately.  Plenty of it and easy to find.  From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.

In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.  So isn't nature the real culprit here?




If you define these types of things as "bad" then I guess you could say nature is the culprit. However, this is just a subjective emotional response with no real merit beyond that of a personal preference. IMO there is nothing truly "bad", it is what it is.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14115884 - 03/13/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Too far even for the Icelander? :satansmoking:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/09/08
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #14115927 - 03/13/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.




It is natural to get sick. It is natural for the body to fight the illness. If possible.. it is natural to heal and build immunity.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: 4896744]
    #14115966 - 03/13/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If you define these types of things as "bad" then I guess you could say nature is the culprit. However, this is just a subjective emotional response with no real merit beyond that of a personal preference. IMO there is nothing truly "bad", it is what it is.

Yes I completely agree and that's where I was hoping to lead this discussion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
    #14115972 - 03/13/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Been studying human nature's dark side a lot lately.  Plenty of it and easy to find.  From the Middle East to Corporations in the West and the guy on the street ripping off and killing and fighting in bars and the list goes on and on.

In fact there is so much of it we cannot but conclude it is basic to our nature.  So isn't nature the real culprit here?





in a way, yes


you cant have my woman and land

they're mine

try to take them and i'll kill you



hey, look

i can kill things like a badass

look at my power

i caught all the fish in the lake

now i'm starving


:feelsbadman:




and yet, there are those who fight to keep idiots from completely fucking it all up




perhaps the real enemy is bad parenting


:shrug:




but just about every question i could possibly have is pertaining to the nature of "nature", and i'm never entirely sure just what that is

so yea


nature
:seriousbusiness:


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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OfflineAn Octopus
cephalopod
Male

Registered: 03/11/11
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Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: 4896744]
    #14115993 - 03/13/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

An Octopus said:
Greed.

Note that "greed" is not the same thing as "individualism." Individualism means bettering yourself to the highest possible level while enabling others to do the same. Greed involves a disregard for the well-being and betterment of others, and pretty much every societal problem in history can be traced back to this concept.




Why shouldn't I be greedy?





Because it inhibits others from achieving their full potential, and because if you can't achieve your own potential without doing this, you are a crappy human being.


--------------------
vibes and stuff

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
    #14116003 - 03/13/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Aren't we all greedy to some extent?  Have you shared your excess wealth (beyond very basic food and shelter) with the needy?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAn Octopus
cephalopod
Male

Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 73
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: Icelander]
    #14116036 - 03/13/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

That's not what I mean, although I am fairly generous with my money and material goods. I don't think that people are mandated to share their wealth, but I do think that achieving this wealth through the exploitation or inhibition of others is immoral.


--------------------
vibes and stuff

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
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Re: who's the real enemy? [Re: An Octopus]
    #14116062 - 03/13/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

An Octopus said:
That's not what I mean, although I am fairly generous with my money and material goods. I don't think that people are mandated to share their wealth, but I do think that achieving this wealth through the exploitation or inhibition of others is immoral.




There is a limited amount of resources. You live in America and seeing that you have internet, you are much wealthier than most of the world. It is wrong for you to live at the standard you do when people in Africa, Asia, and South America are starving and unable to live up to their full potential due to your greed.

Also, your computer was probably made in china. You are just splurging on things created by the capitalistic system at the expense of others who work for meager wages in poor conditions.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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