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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry
    #14114982 - 03/13/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

is there a proper place for psychedelics in spiritual practice?
Igor Kungurtsev, M.D. IT MAY SEEM THAT NOTHING NEW can be said on this topic after Ram Dass and Ralph Metzner. Yet the theme is vast and has many pros and contras as reflected in one of the recent issues of "Gnosis" magazine. (Winter 93, No 26.)This article is an attempt to look at psychedelics from the point of view of somebody who measures everything by one criteria: will this bring me permanent and stable peace and happiness? Or is it interesting and fascinating but has nothing to do with liberation from suffering? (This attitude might seem narrow but regarding other aspects I refer the reader to a significant body of literature.) I believe that longing for permanent contentment is an unconscious motivation behind all human actions; however, it's amazing how difficult it is to really accept that nothing external can bring us lasting happiness.

Limitations
Maybe it's useful first to point out what psychedelics can not give. Just by taking sacred substances and surrendering to their action, no matter how many times and in what doses, we can not acquire permanent, unshakable in any circumstances wisdom, serenity and inner freedom. You might have profound mystical or religious experience but in the next day or two it's gone. What remains is simply memory of bliss and insights you have had but your actual state of consciousness returns to usual with it's implicit inner conflicts.

There is a big difference between actually experiencing that everything is One and intellectually reminding yourself of this truth. If your present state is that of anxiety due to some stress, recalling a profound psychedelic experience you have had won't bring you back in bliss. It seems like certain qualities such as transcendental insight or unconditional love are state specific, meaning you naturally have them when you are in expanded state of consciousness, and you inevitably lose them when you return to an ordinary state. From this point of view, the goal of traditional spiritual practice is not only achieving the altered state but stabilizing or better to say abiding in it.

Of course, all this does not in any way contradict or deny the role of psychedelics as "door - openers" or initial catalysts for many people. It rather calls for realization that chasing after another and another beautiful psychedelic experience leads nowhere, because these experiences are impermanent just as everything else.

Possibilities
So, is there a place for psychedelics in a day-to-day meditation practice of the serious spiritual seeker? Yes, indeed. The first aspect of the purposeful use of sacred substances has to do with the experiential realization that you are not the body. Our materialistic culture, obsessed with the body, gave birth to peculiar phenomena: body-oriented spirituality. Its amazing how many people overlook the simple truth that almost all our suffering originates from identification with the body. For whom are disease, hunger, poverty, fatigue, wars, natural disasters and death? For the body only. However, it's impossible to give up this habitual identification just by reading or hearing the truth, because the ordinary state of consciousness is characterized exactly by "I am body" experience.

Many people may say "Of course", I know that I am not the body!, but this is only intellectual; unless one had a direct experience, the unconscious self-representation is indeed of "I" to be the body, which lives at this address, works on this job, married to this person, etc. The real degree of identification with the body is revealed only through the intensity of fear people have when the body is threatened in disease, physical trauma, or sudden bankruptcy. Of course, all this does not mean that the body itself is the cause of problems. The body should be taken care of. These notions of Advaita Vedanta rather point out that there is no end to suffering unless one experientially realizes that s/he is the boundless ocean of pure consciousness, and the body is just an object equal to all other objects inside this ocean. Psychedelics are invaluable in this matter because in significant doses they can give a direct experience of conscious existence without the body. Mushrooms, DMT and ketamine in large doses are especially helpful. Repeated out-of-body experiences lead to loosening this deep conscious and unconscious identification with the body. One of the spiritual masters said that genuine spiritual practice has no other goal than experiential discovery of something in us that can not be taken by death.

Self-inquiry
Another aspect where psychedelics can be intentionally used has to do with the practice which Ramana Maharshi proposed as the most direct path: investigating "Who am I?" Sometimes this method is grossly misunderstood as merely intellectual questioning or usual introspection. In fact, it's very intensive practice where the meditator withdraws attention from all objects, external (the world) and internal (thoughts), and reverses awareness on it's source. Usually people taking psychedelics learn that the most appropriate mental set and attitude is surrender to the action of the substance. If you don't give up control you are likely to have difficult experience. But again, there is a world of difference between preliminary intellectual set and ability to actually surrender in the process moment-to-moment.

Ramana Maharshi pointed out that another direct path (besides self-inquiry) is total surrender of ones life and world to God. From the meditators perspective, unreserved surrender places ones mind in the position of detached observer of not only the world but of ones own body, emotions and thoughts, since they also belong to God. But as it is difficult to be totally detached in everyday life, so in psychedelic experience there is always a certain degree of habitual repulsion from the unpleasant and attachment to the pleasant. In many cases what people call surrender to the action of the psychedelic is, in fact, emotional involvement in experience with clinging to bliss and aversion to fear. What matters is not what we experience (because all experiences are impermanent) but how we react to it. From this perspective, psychedelics offer a unique possibility and a chance. When usually solid reality melts and begins to move, when irresistible flow of energies dissolves perception of the body, when emotions fluctuate from bliss to unbearable fear, when every moment gives birth to the new world of images, it's a chance to realize that all this is happening by itself, beyond your control. So what can you possibly do? Nothing. Just relax and observe, witness.

Attaining the stable inner position of a detached witness of your own emotions and thoughts is in itself a difficult and high achievement. However, there is a stage beyond that. If I can disidentify and observe all these fleeting manifestations, then, who am I? In the ordinary state of consciousness, attention is usually fixed on this or that object (including thoughts); in psychedelic experience, when everything is changing so fast, it's easier to relax minds habitual grasping and turn awareness on itself. The problem is that we are usually so fascinated or terrified by the experience itself, that we never ask ourselves "Who is that who is aware of all this?"

Challenges
For the determined spiritual practitioner, taking a psychedelic must be a test, a challenge and a possibility. A test: how much of deeply rooted fear, insecurity, negativity do I still have in my subconscious? ( For some people sure of their meditative achievements but who had never taken psychedelics it might be rather unpleasant discovery that all these years they were just soothing the surface). Also a test with large doses of mushrooms, DMT or ketamine as a model of death: when death comes, will I be able to surrender painlessly and let go of the body? And when without a body, will I be comfortable facing the unknown in those strange bardo worlds? A challenge: am I able to stay as a detached witness in the midst of the outermost intensity of fear or bliss? And a possibility: to use the fluidity of psychedelic reality to free the attention from the trap of objects and turn awareness on it's source. Reversed awareness allows us to realize, at least for a moment, the truth of who we really are: pure formless Consciousness, Existence, Untouched Peace, Emptiness and Fullness... In fact , it's impossible to describe It in words; just try the next time you are tripping to find out who is tripping...


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14118137 - 03/14/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

eeeeexcellent :grin:

Paradoxically Self inquiry & psychedelics go together brilliantly, especially for those who usually find self inquiry difficult, the psychedelic can loosen the solidified mind a bit to allow the subtleness of Self inquiry to seep in, the paradox is self inquiry reveals that you don't need the psychedelics, so its actually a perfectly complimentary spiritual practice as it leaves no room for addiction/abuse, taking into consideration that psychedelics are not addictive in the first place and then when you do use them your actually discovering you don't need them!

Although experiencing 'i am not that!' (in reference to the body) during sober waking state is far more powerful & the ramifications integrate more into your life, its easy to forget an OBE psychedelic experience, its also easy to forget an 'i am not the body' experience while sober, as in both cases the mind has nothing to hold in memory, the experience has no reference points that we usually associate with others & hold in memory, but the sober experience does integrate more i've found. It brings a more lasting peace into the mind. Assuming lasting peace is the goal & not just fun experiences, which are cool too.


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Edited by Chronic7 (03/14/11 04:59 AM)


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InvisibleHeartAndMind
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Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
Re: Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry [Re: Chronic7]
    #14118241 - 03/14/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh yea, consciously diving into experience (being) is much more powerful. Imo it's like you transcend unreal you remain so
knowing it, whereas when you take drug it forces you to that transcendence without you knowing what's happening.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #14118366 - 03/14/11 08:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's room for both but in my case mushrooms left me wanting more & stirred my mind to start searching how to attain it soberly

Nothing compares to peace realized with a sober clear mind, there's a clarity & beauty to it that nothing can rival as it can't be taken away, the whole truth about it is that it never ever wears off, that's why its so brilliant & infinite, its eternal so unattainable, but also nothing compares to taking a hefty dose of mushrooms & turning out the lights as it can push your mental limits & show you where you are still clinging to life


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Offlinecircastes
Big Questions Small Head
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
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Re: Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry [Re: Chronic7]
    #14119704 - 03/14/11 02:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Should mention too that God never gets sick of itself, ie. it's ecstastic, loving nature, as there is no end to it... I think you take in as much as your form can take without dissolving. I thought I was going to disappear in ecstasy once, and it kind of makes me want to hit the brakes every time I feel it coming again. This is sober.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Interesting MAPS article on psychedelics and self-inquiry [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14315748 - 04/19/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are a lot of assumptions in this question I will try and reveal. For one there is this idea that eastern mysticism delivers----ie., that is delivers ALL-THE-TIME-BLISS-AND -SERENITY. Right?......That is the premise from mowst adherents to Eastern philosophy. But I very much question that assumption. I think it is bogus, pretentious, and delusional. It gives us the Guru-system of author-ity where we are to believe that this guru or that guru abides in a state of super-normal serenity, and thus is of higher consciousness than normal people. Also with this belief system is attached the notion that some humans have more superior karma and so are naturally more superior, etc, and from THAT we get the Hindu caste system which has at the bottom the 'untouchables' who literally shovel shit for the 'higher ups'. So I see a great danger of all this. I have been around ofr a while and know that in the earlier 'psychedelic revolution' many --not diggin the staid rigid grim western religions--chose India, and the East as the answer to their quest for a life long Trip.

I have also been through that phase. When I was 17 i joined the Hare Krishna temple lol. They dream of going to this 'ever blissful Krishnaloka' with flute playing blue Krishna and being transcendtal and far away from 'bad earth and the body and sex' cetra. I didn't stay long with that cult i am glad to say, but use it as an example

So what then?

I am attracted to Goddess religion. Why? because unlike most of the other belief systems in this world it immediately sees nature as sacred-as-it is. hence when you eat nature's sacred fruits you are already enlightened and are tasting the wonders of this amzing reality which is NOT one-sided--ie., you cannopt POSSIBLY have light without dark or vice versa, or pain without pleasure, and vice versa, or fron without back nor male without female, nor dark without light, nor life without death. it is a dynamic experience which is polar~relational, and cannot be grasped by categories of thinking.

So Tripping is deeping insights into this dynamic Mystery. It is not the 'come down' and then the though 'oh shit i am back to normal!' I must become a buddhist. It is a continuum of exploration. So for example--have you ever wondered WHY you feel so shit when you 'come down', and you have a deep sad nostalgia for the paradise you have lost? This question should be PART OF the journey which is life. Understand sacred food as being in continuum with sacred life, yeah. it would be silly to be trippin ALL the time, right? For how could we function, drive a car, whatever. But it is also sacred, and so is ALL life. And what you find about the often great sadness that comes after the trip is that what you comin down TO is a culture which is oppressive, is mechanistic, very violent, sadistic, cut OFF from nature, and community. And it IS that because of propaganda. So rather than wonder why you canot be in bliss all the time, explore why our world is so fucked up. THAT is more real that being obsessed why YOU cant be happy all the time, right? What do you think?


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