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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Autoclave, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

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Offlineathena
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Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 38
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
2 questions ?
    #1411415 - 03/26/03 01:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hello,
I was just reading through the popcorn and cc substrate threads.
My buddy wanted to try some cracked corn and yesterday he asked how long he should pc a small jar of soaked cc. I told him I thought 45 minutes would be plenty. But now I am seeing where people are talking about pressure cooking their jars for 90 minutes? Wow, is that long really necessary?
One other question, where does one find coco coir? Is it really so much better as a casing?
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. Athena.


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Invisibledobinky
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 2,436
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: athena]
    #1412951 - 03/27/03 02:18 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"One other question, where does one find coco coir?"


Go to a pet shop and look in the reptile section with substrates...Its called "Forest Bed"

Petco has it the cheapest at 4.99


--------------------
Today?s Pig is Tomorrow?s Bacon


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: athena]
    #1412979 - 03/27/03 02:57 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

My dear Athena,

Are you from Greece? :wink: Anyway

Pressure cooking is the best way of sterilizing the substrate,
because pressure+heat for a long period of time kill everything.

Each cultivator has his/her own method of pressure cooking, mainly
because each pressure cooker is different.

I pressure cook my jars [corn or rye berries] for at least ONE HOUR.

My suggestion is that your buddy should try and see. You dont want
too little time [contaminants will still be alive] and you dont want
too much time [substrate will be dried out]

GOOD LUCK


--------------------
The living ghost of Kykeon


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
Re: 2 questions ? [Re: kykeon]
    #1413100 - 03/27/03 04:29 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

My dear kykeon,

I agree that pressure cooking is the best way to sterilize, but I'm not sure if it's because of the heat +pressure thing. I was under the impression that the pressure allows the water in the sealed vessel to boil at 121 degrees C instead of 100 degrees C. This higher than normal heat is what kills everything. I am still a little shaky on that, but I work in several labs that work with autoclavess and have been told that many times. What do you think.


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Offlinediggitydankman
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Registered: 12/10/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: 2 questions ? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1413106 - 03/27/03 04:35 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That is correct, although the added pressure can never hurt either. The heat is the only thing that can penetrate the jars, though. Autoclaves work similarly but increse the pressure more than a PC does and therefor are much more sterile. I was considering maybe adding certain soluble substances that may alter the BP of water, kind of similar to how salt is used as a deicer- do to its ability to lower the MP of water to below freezing thereby allowing water to thaw at below 0 or 32.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1413111 - 03/27/03 04:40 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

what were you thinking of adding?


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Offlinediggitydankman
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1413123 - 03/27/03 04:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Thats were I am stuck at. I need something that is not toxic and definately something that will not harm the substrate. I will have to bust out the chem book later on. This could be a great idea for all of us out there without PC's and those with may find adding a solvent may decrease contam rates even more.

Edit: seems that 35g of NaCl added to 100Ml of water will increase the boiling point to ~109 C (this is considerable), also this amount of salt is only enough to partially saturate the water and therefore more than 35g could be added for extra effects even to the point of supersaturation. Table salt is much less efficent than de-icer salt and a further experiment may be done with de-icer salts.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


Edited by diggitydankman (03/27/03 04:56 AM)


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1413132 - 03/27/03 04:47 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

good Idea, keep me posted with Pms and if I think of anything I will let you know


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Offlineathena
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Registered: 03/10/03
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1413837 - 03/27/03 10:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hi,
I see my thread was moved. I wondered about whether or not I was posting in the correct place for these questions.
Anyway, as far as pressure cooking, I realize it is the best way to kill contams, but I just wondered about the recomended time of one and one half hour (90 min) for cracked corn, as opposed to 20, or 30 minutes for about everything else (20 min for liquid medias, brf/verm cakes, agar medias, etc.) and had read in Bob Harris' book instructions for jars of rye or milo of sterilizing at 15psi for 45 minutes. I guess I just assumed that 45 min would be sufficient for cc as well and told my buddy that that was what I thought.
since we are on the subject of pc, I thought that the idea was that the heat destroyed any organisms, and that the pressure simply pushed the heat into the substrate faster. This was why I thought it cooked food faster as well, as in cooking you are simply waiting for the center of the food, or meat to reach a certain temperature, and that by using a pressure cooker the pressure 'pushes' the heat into the meat faster, making it so it is done way sooner. Also I thought that it helped with endo spore organisms by 'pushing' the heat past it's tough outer shell and killing it where plain boiliing would not.
Is this not right? Thanks for the info, I appreciate all help. Athena.


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Offlinekykeon
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Registered: 05/30/02
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: athena]
    #1414021 - 03/27/03 11:22 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

although i am still waitin for Anno's arrival in this thread to straighten my errors (and bottom lol) right. lol

i have the feeling that heat kills bacteria but pressure kills bacteria spores
too. as a matter of fact, pc is saving time [where you pc for 30 minutes is
like boiling in simple pot for an hour or more]

jesus christ i dont really know, coz i am no scientist. just a lover of this hobby.

btw, i had success with corn only by pc it for an hour and more. perhaps its my pressure cooker or somethin.

GOOD LUCK
...and before getting into bed, think for a moment all those innocent people
who lose their life all around the world... for nothing.


--------------------
The living ghost of Kykeon


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Offlinediggitydankman
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Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: 2 questions ? [Re: kykeon]
    #1415279 - 03/27/03 08:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

This question kind of bugged me all day. I would think that the heat would be more important than the pressure as the pressure is not distributed well through the glass into the substrate. However, the heat is very easily passed and may be the source of sterilization. Using salts to increase the bp may be a better way to sterilize, in the case that you have no pc. If you have one why not add some salt any way to increase heat more. Remember that more heat means less time, so the substrate does not dry. If any chemist's or any experienced mycologist know of whether this may in any way harm the substrate? All those without a pc may now be able to sterilze some grains and agar.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


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Offlinesi1988crx
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Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 267
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1415485 - 03/27/03 09:48 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Under the idea of adding salt to the water to increase its boiling point (esp. if you dont have a pressure cooker) what if someone was to use a different boiling media, such as peanut oil? The smoke point (hard to determine boiling point since oils start to smoke before the boil) of peanut oil is 227 C or 440 F which would definately get rid of contams in a shorter period of time. The only draw back I could see is the risk of the substrate drying out from the higher temps (though I doubt this would happen since you would not have to boil as long) Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this?


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Offlinesi1988crx
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Re: 2 questions ? [Re: si1988crx]
    #1415493 - 03/27/03 09:51 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I forgot to add something. Since you wont have to worry about the penut oil boiling and splashing on top of your jars, you could place a weight on top of the jars and keep the peanut oil about 3/4 of the way up the jars (if you are using pint or quart jars) to even futher speed up the time it takes to sterilize the entire jar.


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Autoclave, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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