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Offlineflow
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Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!!
    #1411396 - 03/26/03 01:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

around here lately i've heard a lot of bitching about how the US using depleted uranium shells is like a weapon of mass destruction. Obviously, this is a stupid comment. So, in an attempt to end the spread of misinformation, the truth about depleted uranium.
"25. Taking all these factors into consideration the Defence Radiological Protection Service (DRPS) has concluded, so far as the British military are concerned, that even in the worst possible case during the Gulf War exposure levels 'would have been far below the very high exposure levels known to cause acute radiation health effects in humans'. That the same may be true of longer-term effects is suggested by the results of a significant study recently reported by the MoD (UK Gulf Veterans' Mortality, 20 July 2000). The research, carried out in Manchester University and reported in The Lancet on 1 July 2000, compared the mortality and causes of death of Gulf Veterans over the period April 1991 to June 2000 with a Control Group of service personnel, randomly selected to match by age, sex, service, Regular/Reservist and officer/rank, who did not serve in the Gulf. This has since been updated to 31 December 2000 (Mr. Spellar, 'Written Answer', 22 January 2001, Hansard, column 416W). The mortality of the Gulf cohort was greater than that of the Control group by 3% - not statistically significant. But disease-related deaths in the Gulf cohort were 18% lower than for the Controls. In particular deaths from cancer were 9% lower, from circulatory diseases 23% lower and from mental disorders 26% lower (on very small numbers). Only in the case of nervous and respiratory systems were the Gulf figures worse, by 7 to 4 and 9 to 5 respectively, out of total cohorts of 477 and 466. These figures suggest very strongly that DU-induced effects were not a factor in Gulf Veterans' mortality during the first decade after the war. The only causes of death in which the Gulf cohort substantially exceeded the Controls were by motor vehicle accidents (30%), air and space accidents (49%), 'submersion/suffocation/foreign bodies' (253%) and 'other accidents' (21%). The accident figures are unexplained and the MoD is looking further into the particular case of road traffic accidents. So far as the US is concerned it is reported that 'there's no proof that a single American soldier is sick purely as a result of DU exposure' (William Arkin, 'Politically depleted munitions' in The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, November/December 1999, p. 72)."
www.isisuk.demon.co.uk/0811/isis/uk/regpapers/no78long_paper.html



Edited by flow (03/26/03 01:01 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: flow]
    #1411446 - 03/26/03 01:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

That data is for short term exposure during a short war, not long term daily exposure for over a decade.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1412236 - 03/26/03 06:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

American service men have been exposed long term. DU has been used as armor plating on tanks for quite some time.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1412307 - 03/26/03 07:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yes but when it's surrounded by metal in a tank it's not going to be as dangerous as breathing tiny particles of uranium dust every day for 10 years is it.

Anyone who doubts breathing uranium dust is dangerous should go and do it. With all my blessings. The rates of cancer everywhere depleted uranium has been used have exploded. There really is no question about it.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1412315 - 03/26/03 07:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Did you read the first post? And being very dense any dust would quickly settle and sift down beneth the sand.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1412320 - 03/26/03 07:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And being very dense any dust would quickly settle and sift down beneth the sand.

LOL!  :grin:

You ever heard of something called the wind?

This strange thing known as the wind tends to blow a lot of sand about. It's hard for uranium dust to "settle" underneath sand. 


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1412352 - 03/26/03 07:52 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

American service men have been exposed long term. DU has been used as armor plating on tanks for quite some time.




this is not the same as inhaling radioactive dust particles resulting from a du shell's impact for over ten years. however, i haven't seen convincing evidence either way. the iraqi government could have fabricated the child cancer/leukemia rates to work in their favor. i just know i wouldn't want to be eating, drinking, and breathing it. i'm sure americans would love for *their* children to grow up in a du dust cloud.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1412408 - 03/26/03 08:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

1) With all that wind what didn't settle should be out of Iraq by now.
2) I'm no scientist and could be wrong but if you put a ball bearing in a room of ping pong balls I think it would sink pretty fast.

I have no doubt that breathing the dust is bad. I doubt that sufficient amounts in significant concentrations are actually present.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: flow]
    #1412462 - 03/26/03 08:43 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

DU causes problems also because of its chemical properties not only because of radioactivity. The shit starts to happen if DU burns, that's why military that is using it is usually not affected. It didn't cause problems only in war areas like Iraq & Yugoslavia but also at the plane crash sites (many airplanes use large amount of DU for balancing).
And the governments that are using it will never admit that it's harmfull. They would have to pay too much for the victims. It happened before - remember Agent Orange?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1412469 - 03/26/03 08:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Uranium IS a naturally occuring element. With all the wind in Iraq, it should have been reduced to only a few parts per billion within a short amount of time.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1412652 - 03/26/03 09:48 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Just do a search on google for "depleted uranium"... Every link states its high levels of toxicity.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: flow]
    #1412717 - 03/26/03 10:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

That's a terrible article.

It does not acount for Uranium's toxicity as a heavy metal...(like lead or mercury poisoning) which is much worse than a little radiation...

So what if the USA soldiers are not not geting sick from this stuff? I was never as worried about them as I was the totaly innocent civilians whose home lands are now covered with Uranium dust, getting in the water...the soil...the food chain...into them...causing heavy metal poisoning...

That's the most ridiculous article I've read in quite a while.



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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1412770 - 03/26/03 10:34 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Uranium IS a naturally occuring element.




Yes, but in nature it doesn't occur on the surface in form of fine dust. And in nature is usually bound as uranium oxide among other minerals.
When I was looking for these links I found info that more than 9,600 Gulf War veterans have died after the war. (http://www.ngwrc.org/facts/default.htm)

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm
http://www.cadu.org.uk/
http://www.tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/du/
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm
http://www.pinholepictures.com/

The usage of this shit is a war crime.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: zeronio]
    #1412831 - 03/26/03 11:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If it is a fine powder, it might oxidize completely into Uranium oxide quickly as well.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1412885 - 03/27/03 12:45 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

It might.
Do you really beleive that it's harmless?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1413218 - 03/27/03 05:52 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

1) With all that wind what didn't settle should be out of Iraq by now.

Eh? Is all the sand out of Iraq?

I'm no scientist and could be wrong but if you put a ball bearing in a room of ping pong balls I think it would sink pretty fast.

Not if there was a force 10 gale blowing.

When you are talking about uranium dust it doesn't take an awful lot of wind to throw it back into the atmosphere. Then it will sink to the surface, then get blown up again etc. People will be breathing it the entire time.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1413412 - 03/27/03 07:31 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

And being very dense any dust would quickly settle and sift down beneth the sand.




Children like to dig and play in sand. I wonder about the effects to children playing in the sand...

Seems possible that it could pose a health risk to children.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: grib]
    #1413501 - 03/27/03 08:05 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt iraqi children use thier back yard as a "sand box"....
It probably doesn't hold the wonder for them one over here would for our children!
LOL :grin:

..still...mabye!...


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1413636 - 03/27/03 08:52 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I doubt iraqi children use thier back yard as a "sand box"....




children are children regardless where they live. I've lived in many countries and that has been my experience.



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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (03/27/03 09:21 AM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: grib]
    #1413668 - 03/27/03 09:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

..?!...


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Lest we forget. "


Edited by Azmodeus (03/27/03 09:07 AM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: grib]
    #1413670 - 03/27/03 09:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

lol:...Smoke a joint man! that was my sense of humor :grin:


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Offlineflow
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1413902 - 03/27/03 10:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So what if the USA soldiers are not not geting sick from this stuff? I was never as worried about them as
I was the totaly innocent civilians whose home lands are now covered with Uranium dust, getting in the
water...the soil...the food chain...into them...causing heavy metal poisoning...

That's the most ridiculous article I've read in quite a while.



well, obviously you didn't go to the link and read the whole paper, it is extremely long and i only
posted a small portion if you had gone to the link, you would have found this:
27. The real reason for concern - as in the case of the radiation hazard - lies in the clouds
of uranium dust thrown up by the impact of DU penetrators on hard objects such as tanks.
American Army tests have indicated that up to half of the uranium oxides produced by these
impacts are relatively soluble. If such material is ingested, only about 2% is absorbed from the
gut into the body fluids and then transported around the bloodstream. Uranium, in the form of
the uranyl ion, can react with other biological molecules (bicarbonates, citrates, phosphates,
proteins, etc.) causing damage. About 90% of the uranium is excreted by the kidneys within 24
to 48 hours, and it is in the kidneys themselves that almost all the damage occurs. In the
acid environment of urine the uranyl ions combine with proteins in the tubular walls of the
kidney causing cell death, atrophy anddecreased ability to filter. The remaining 10% of
uranium that is not excreted lodges in organs such as the liver and kidney, in fatand muscle
but only for a matter of days or months. There is long-term retention in the bones in the
order of years to decades. Here it can form a long-term radiological hazard (as already
discussed). But the only known evidence of chemical damage from uranium in humans is
to the kidneys. If soluble uranium is inhaled into the lungs most will be absorbed into the
blood, carried round the bloodstream and mostly excreted by the kidneys, with the same
chance of doing damage there. Hence in the discussion of toxic hazard one can concentrate
on kidney damage.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: zeronio]
    #1413906 - 03/27/03 10:40 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, but in nature it doesn't occur on the surface in form of fine dust. And in nature is usually bound as uranium oxide
among other minerals.



yes and you think a cloud of uranium dust wouldn't quickly become uranium oxide?
read the whole paper in the link, it says it will do exactly that.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1413915 - 03/27/03 10:43 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

When you are talking about uranium dust it doesn't take an awful lot of wind to throw it back into the
atmosphere. Then it will sink to the surface, then get blown up again etc. People will be breathing it the
entire time.



and if you bothered to go into the link and read the whole report, you would have found that it would be
harmless as there would not be enough of a concentration to do any harm.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: flow]
    #1413933 - 03/27/03 10:52 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Don't just read one article. There's a thousand that point out the increase in cancer rates wherever DU is used.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1413967 - 03/27/03 11:05 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Could you post one?


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Offlineflow
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1414026 - 03/27/03 11:25 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Don't just read one article. There's a thousand that point out the increase in cancer rates wherever DU is
used.



i haven't only read one article, and this isn't an article its a paper to the ISIS
addressing these thousands of articles that claim DU is dangerous. READ
THE WHOLE THING. i now it's hard for you to read something that says
you're wrong, but this is probably the best source you could find.


Edited by flow (03/27/03 11:26 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: flow]
    #1414745 - 03/27/03 04:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"DU is almost twice as dense as lead and has the ability to self-sharpen on impact with armour, thus making it ideally suited for use as a kinetic energy anti-armour penetrator."

I heard the Army was going to switch from depleted uranium to Democrat brains, which are far denser, but they could not obtain a sufficient quantity.


--------------------
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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (03/27/03 04:52 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: z@z.com]
    #1415137 - 03/27/03 07:28 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Could you post one?

Do a search on google rather than relying on me spoonfeeding you. There's 20 plus pages worth.


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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Xlea321]
    #1415182 - 03/27/03 07:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Al


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Oh my god! Depleted Uranium!!! [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #1415315 - 03/27/03 08:39 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Could you post one?




I posted 6 links. It seems that nobody read them.

And I understand what military scientists claim, but they're not the only source . Besides they lied in the past - they still claim that agent orange was harmless, that's a good reason to rule them out as a reliable source of information.
I belive that they thought DU was OK, but now they will never admit that they were wrong.
It's not true that american soldiers aren't suffering from it. Read the links I posted.


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