|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to
#14110166 - 03/12/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I recently learned this in psychology, and I feel like I should pass it along to others.
This is a multi-step process and will not work for some people, as they may be well-guarded and aware of what you're attempting to accomplish.
It's actually a quite short process, but it is difficult to master and is time-consuming to figure it out with different people, unless you are very good at it.
First, you need to figure out their triggers to certain conversations or behaviors. This is the most difficult and time-consuming. You may have to observe their behavior for a little while and what they say, what their interests are, etc., in order for you to initiate a positive trigger on them.
Once you have practiced a certain trigger a few times, you'll know it will work nearly all the time, just don't use it often or people will catch onto what you are doing, or they will respond negatively to your words or actions.
Basic example: Getting someone to do a small task for you.
Their trigger from you is: "Can I ask you to do a favor for me"
They respond with: "Yes", or "No".
If yes, proceed to explain favor. If they respond with a "No" afterwards, they usually will not comply under any circumstance unless it is outlandish and able to be proven (I'll do it for a million dollars)
If they originally respond with a "No", offer a small bribe or favor in return, and show appreciation if they will go along with the favor.
Now you also know when others try to use it against you. It's always best to learn everyone else's motivations. There's no need to feel bad about denying them the right to try and get you to do or say something.
Edit: This is especially important when playing a game such as Poker with several people whom you do not know. In which case, I will proceed to explain further detail about how to read people (this won't work for online poker)
But here's how you gain information from people
-Body language -Conversations with friends, peers, others -Eye dilation (this one can be tricky to spot)
-When someone sees or hears something they like, generally their eyes will dilate naturally, if they are not under the influence of something. Their mouth might also subliminally flash a small, but quick smile. (think of the very subtle smile on the Mona Lisa). This may also occur when they are using something.
-Body language. Usually if they like something, they will nod in approval, depending on how much they like it, how much they know about it, how willing they are to do it--are all determined on how many times they nod and how quickly. This is different for everyone so you need to know their basic dominant personality type better first.
-Conversations. Spoken words are probably the easiest to solidify into memory, if you can understand them. And when people aren't afraid about an idea, they will usually put it into conversation, which means they are comfortable with it being heard...that is, they don't mind their opinion on something being heard by others.
-When someone is lying, they will usually speak faster and try to smile more, if they are a good liar. However, this is what can also happen if someone speaks the truth well, so you also need to get an idea of what type of personality they are.
Type A traits -- avoidance to undesired goals/activities, stressed, hard-working, very motivative and competitive Type B traits -- more relaxed, talks more slowly, takes on tasks with more diligence and isn't as consciously worried about time.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
Edited by tyler_0_durden (03/12/11 05:50 PM)
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110216 - 03/12/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
What?
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110231 - 03/12/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Asking them is not the trigger.
What you are talking about is association. If your talking someone and everytime you make a joke you scratch your beard when they laugh then when you make a shit joke - then scratch your beard then they will laugh.
Basic NLP. I don't think you are quite grasping it though. Sorry.
|
Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: nice1]
#14110236 - 03/12/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
That is seriously sick as fuck, like seriously. I believe that if there is a hell there is a special zone of torment for manipulators.
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14110243 - 03/12/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I don't use this shit. I'm just aware of it because of my interest in mentalism magic.
You should not fear it anyway. You should embrace it, less it be used against you by an evil dictator.
I mean its basic stuff - just turn on the TV this sort of mind manipulation is fucking everywhere.
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: nice1]
#14110253 - 03/12/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1 said: Asking them is not the trigger.
What you are talking about is association. If your talking someone and everytime you make a joke you scratch your beard when they laugh then when you make a shit joke - then scratch your beard then they will laugh.
Basic NLP. I don't think you are quite grasping it though. Sorry.
It can be a trigger, from what I've been taught. I was just giving a most basic example. I'll admit, I'm not an expert. Feel free to elaborate on this subject if you have more knowledge. I think it's an interesting topic...but yeah...
Usually a trigger is a particular starter sentence to begin a desired conversation. That is also what I've been taught.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
Edited by tyler_0_durden (03/12/11 05:53 PM)
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110299 - 03/12/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I spose it could be but what I've been taught is that 1 thing is used as a trigger by association. I'm not quite getting your example though.
What I've learnt is that you have to repeat something when the desired trait is triggered so that you can retrigger it.
Basically, say a person with anxiety gets it everytime they go to pay in a shop. What happens is the brain associates the feeling of anxiety with the act of paying in the shop...
So if your intent is to manipulate this facet of the human mind then it can be as simple as making a small gesture when said person responds positively. Then in the future if you require a positive response and your trigger has been succesfully associated - you can likely guarantee a positive response by using the trigger you have already set up.
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: nice1]
#14110353 - 03/12/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1 said: I spose it could be but what I've been taught is that 1 thing is used as a trigger by association. I'm not quite getting your example though.
What I've learnt is that you have to repeat something when the desired trait is triggered so that you can retrigger it.
Basically, say a person with anxiety gets it everytime they go to pay in a shop. What happens is the brain associates the feeling of anxiety with the act of paying in the shop...
So if your intent is to manipulate this facet of the human mind then it can be as simple as making a small gesture when said person responds positively. Then in the future if you require a positive response and your trigger has been succesfully associated - you can likely guarantee a positive response by using the trigger you have already set up.
That makes sense. I am aware that the body can make triggers, as I've definitely done them myself, unaware that I was actually doing it. Positive and negative ones, but that's a good example of a non-verbal one.
Or an environment-based one. Thanks.
I just like this subject of psychology so much, even if I don't quite grasp it.
Lol, it's what politicians use all the time.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110382 - 03/12/11 06:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah its an interesting subject and I think people should embrace it.
The subtle cues you mention are pretty much spot on. Theres many more though - I can just go with my senses as opposed to consciously watching these things though. I sorta learned them while very young - naturally pick up on all the subtle cues even when deceitful.
I think most people do - some people don't, if they are naturally bad at it. Many people pick up onit but don't counsciously recognise it as well. I mean they can sort of sense you are lying because they have picked up on the clues but the don't consciously accept it as fact. It can also work the other way and in a paranoid moment, people think they are picking up on it when they are not at all.
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110420 - 03/12/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Have you learnt about mimickry?
Its especially good for getting women on side ;-) If you watch a couple who are very much into each other - you will see how the mimickry is perfect. They will have the same body stance, they drink at the same time, even blink at the same time. Its sounds crazy but if you pay attention next time you see a couple its rediculous how much truth there is too it and of course if you know about it then it an be abused or used...
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: nice1]
#14110519 - 03/12/11 06:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nice1 said: Yeah its an interesting subject and I think people should embrace it.
The subtle cues you mention are pretty much spot on. Theres many more though - I can just go with my senses as opposed to consciously watching these things though. I sorta learned them while very young - naturally pick up on all the subtle cues even when deceitful.
I think most people do - some people don't, if they are naturally bad at it. Many people pick up onit but don't counsciously recognise it as well. I mean they can sort of sense you are lying because they have picked up on the clues but the don't consciously accept it as fact. It can also work the other way and in a paranoid moment, people think they are picking up on it when they are not at all.
Quote:
nice1 said: Have you learnt about mimickry?
Its especially good for getting women on side ;-) If you watch a couple who are very much into each other - you will see how the mimickry is perfect. They will have the same body stance, they drink at the same time, even blink at the same time. Its sounds crazy but if you pay attention next time you see a couple its rediculous how much truth there is too it and of course if you know about it then it an be abused or used...
Yeah, from what I remember, I'm not usually consciously aware of when I may be sending or receiving triggers...I'm definitely more clueless on sending them.
In response to your second quote...it's probably why I can't get women! Hahaha. I haven't studied much about mimickry, but I've definitely noticed it. Seems to be associated with positive relationships from what I've seen. (As you said, like picking up a glass and drinking at relatively the same time, or sometimes, perfectly on cue and then it's kind of weird--to me at least, when it happens with me.) Makes sense that it can be abused...like playing "repeat" when the other person doesn't want to play it haha. Good example is the scene from Super Troopers. Kids usually play that game for bullying or teasing I think. sometimes they're just joking.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
Edited by tyler_0_durden (03/12/11 06:41 PM)
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14110735 - 03/12/11 07:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
When you realize we're all being played by the ultimate manipulator, life, get back to us.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Kickle]
#14110851 - 03/12/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: When you realize we're all being played by the ultimate manipulator, life, get back to us.
Mmm...I'd take a slightly different stance and say that can be combated to an extent. At the quantum level of things, everything is random and chaotic--as you may well know, so that could possibly affect neural networks in the brain, and vise versa. However, not enough study has been done on the human brain and relation to quantum events.
Which is primarily why I'm interested in psychology.
But that's true. Life throws everyone curve balls. Can't avoid those.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
Edited by tyler_0_durden (03/12/11 07:36 PM)
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14111073 - 03/12/11 08:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
IMO one can influence people to the greatest degree when going with the direction life is influencing people. Following life's pushes will allow one to gain some sense of being personally responsible for the movement. But IMO that's just feeding the ego and being a little silly.
The brain is wired the way that nature has allowed for. That means the way that has survived. And that includes learning through reinforcement and a fear of death. Both reinforcement and the fear of death are played over and over again in our society. Casinos and Churches come to mind front and center.
And what urges people to create casinos and churches?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Kickle]
#14111387 - 03/12/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: IMO one can influence people to the greatest degree when going with the direction life is influencing people. Following life's pushes will allow one to gain some sense of being personally responsible for the movement. But IMO that's just feeding the ego and being a little silly.
The brain is wired the way that nature has allowed for. That means the way that has survived. And that includes learning through reinforcement and a fear of death. Both reinforcement and the fear of death are played over and over again in our society. Casinos and Churches come to mind front and center.
And what urges people to create casinos and churches?
Interesting. Very good points.
My guess about building churches/casinos: To make money!! I think I got that right.
Lots of people are influenced by making money...
This seems to be the primary drive of the ego, desires and wants...and who doesn't want a little more money?
This fear of death though, it would seem as though it can give someone an overwhelming amount of anxiety if they continuously experience it without some sort of comfort.
Is there a way to get rid of the fear of death? Because if no one is afraid of death, much less even cares, it should seem as though it could cause them to live longer.
People with lots of money probably have a fear of death--someone else killing them, since they're so important in society.
However, people without any money have a fear of death because they aren't sure they'll have enough money to buy necessities like food, water, etc.
Seems to take me back to some teachings from David Icke, that our society is based on keeping people in "survival mode", because that's the easiest form of control.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
Edited by tyler_0_durden (03/12/11 09:04 PM)
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14111487 - 03/12/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
When you realize we're all being played by the ultimate manipulator, life...
Society is just a reflection of what we are and that's alive. It's part of life to want to stay alive. And money ensures in as good a means as there is that you'll live relatively long and relatively well. Life encourages us to strive for this to the best of its abilities. Women try to mate with successful men. Men compete with each other for the top spot as a result. Donald Trump is an easy and common example as he is by all means pretty ugly but knocked up a sexy young thing. He succeeded in life. He also manipulates the world greatly by going with this flow of life.
I'm not one to say it's good or bad. But Trump definitely has an ego and utilizes it to it's fullest. He wants to feel as though he has an influence in this world. And IMO life has encouraged that primarily via reinforcement. It feels good to succeed and he was born with that ability to feel good for certain successes. As we all are.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Kickle]
#14111685 - 03/12/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: When you realize we're all being played by the ultimate manipulator, life...
Society is just a reflection of what we are and that's alive. It's part of life to want to stay alive. And money ensures in as good a means as there is that you'll live relatively long and relatively well. Life encourages us to strive for this to the best of its abilities. Women try to mate with successful men. Men compete with each other for the top spot as a result. Donald Trump is an easy and common example as he is by all means pretty ugly but knocked up a sexy young thing. He succeeded in life. He also manipulates the world greatly by going with this flow of life.
I'm not one to say it's good or bad. But Trump definitely has an ego and utilizes it to it's fullest. He wants to feel as though he has an influence in this world. And IMO life has encouraged that primarily via reinforcement. It feels good to succeed and he was born with that ability to feel good for certain successes. As we all are.
That definitely makes sense.
Personally, I don't like Trump's big ego but maybe that's my jealousy. Probably is...because that's his personality and it won't really change now that he's a fully grown man.
But...can't one take an existential point of view and say that whatever they want to do, that's how they should live their life? Even though they may be limited or restricted to an extent?
(lol...now I'm playing Devil's Advocate with myself...gahhh)
I guess people can choose how much they utilize their ego, which may or may not help them. Depends on opportunities, but I guess the more confident someone is, the more likely they are to be successful in life.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14111697 - 03/12/11 09:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Sure, you can do whatever you want to do within limits. Just don't expect the most commonly sought rewards to go with choices that divorce natural drives.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
tyler_0_durden
Stranger


Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 1,861
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Kickle]
#14111785 - 03/12/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: Sure, you can do whatever you want to do within limits. Just don't expect the most commonly sought rewards to go with choices that divorce natural drives.
True, very true, I'd imagine any choice that hinders an upward progression in society wouldn't have many rewards to go along with it.
Then that arrives me back to the ego, that can conflict with the id, because it seems, in order to achieve great success (which can be a broad term, but I'll just define it as acquiring affluence/wealth), certain choices need to be made and some avoided. Like, sleeping in and not going to work would be a bad one, hehe...
Benefit of sleeping in: More sleep, feel better, maybe have a cool dream. Drawback of sleeping in: Huge drawback, could get fired for not going to work.
Sort of coincides with the expression "no such thing as a free lunch", unless your name happens to be Paris Hilton or someone who just inherits wealth, in which case it isn't the own person's ego that had a major play in "becoming successful". Maybe if someone saw that their inheritance could be given to someone who would put it to good use or they already had a drive to succeed and would do well even without inheriting any money, then the ego would come into play more.
-------------------- "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." --Max Planck
|
Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14113392 - 03/13/11 09:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Basic example: Getting someone to do a small task for you.
Their trigger from you is: "Can I ask you to do a favor for me"
They respond with: "Yes", or "No".
If yes, proceed to explain favor. If they respond with a "No" afterwards, they usually will not comply under any circumstance unless it is outlandish and able to be proven (I'll do it for a million dollars)
If they originally respond with a "No", offer a small bribe or favor in return, and show appreciation if they will go along with the favor.
So what you're saying is that if people want to do something for you they will and if they don't they won't?
So far from the OP, I see no artful manipulation/influence/coercion going on at all. I think your teacher taught you a very ordinary pattern of influence and then eluded to a few things to make it sound more powerful than what it is.
In your example, if they say "no" to the favour, then I would argue that most people can be persuaded to turn the "no" into a "yes" assuming the favour isn't going to put them in serious danger. Just think about when you were growing up the number of times your parents said "no" to you and then you have been able to get them to eventually say "yes" by one way or another. I'm not meaning in a malicious way, just within the normal push and pull/give and take of human interaction. Kids are naturally amazing at persuasion.
"Yes" sets, language patterns, state elicitation, an awareness of cognitive biases, utilising presuppositions, framing, priming, improving sensory acuity, to just name a few things, are some pretty cool tools in the field of persuasion. "Influence: Science and practice" by Robert Cialdini is a good read to start with. My 2c.
--------------------
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Mufungo]
#14114943 - 03/13/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I feel like I am seeing a ghost.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
|
Re: Getting people to tell or do you whatever you want them to [Re: Kickle] 1
#14115498 - 03/13/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
|