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OfflineTrippinTime
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Weird liquid in fully colonized jars
    #14108932 - 03/12/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have a bunch of jars that are way past fully colonized, been sitting for a while because I havent had time to g2g them yet, some of these jars have accumulated a weird yellowish/amber liquid in the bottoms. What is this liquid and what does it mean??


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: TrippinTime]
    #14109008 - 03/12/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That liquid is a metabolic waste product that the mycelia exudes as it absorbs nutrients from the substrate.  I would highly suggest using a jar that is NOT showing signs of this liquid for grain-to-grain transfer.  If you let mycelia sit for too long without introducing it to a new food source it will essentially start starving/stalling.  You want vigorous, healthy mycelia to do grain-to-grain.


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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #14109051 - 03/12/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Metabolites usually form in response to overincubation/excessive heat and the presence of bacteria (they're anti-biotic). They're still gravy to spawn to bulk or case and fruit. Search engines are our friends - there are much more in depth responses/explanations of this.


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Expect poison from standing water.

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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109144 - 03/12/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Boomstik said:
Metabolites usually form in response to overincubation/excessive heat and the presence of bacteria (they're anti-biotic). They're still gravy to spawn to bulk or case and fruit. Search engines are our friends - there are much more in depth responses/explanations of this.



awesome. i've got the same going on with some clones,
and was worried about spawning them. thanks man.


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109164 - 03/12/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You're right, you absolutely can use it as spawn or even your fruiting substrate, but be aware that you might suffer yield losses or stalling.

Metabolites are also the natural product of the mycelia's colonization.  The outside surface of the mycelia exudes these chemicals to break down and digest the nutrients/minerals that are made available through this process.  Most mycelia can actually mineralize rock as it secretes oxalic acid.


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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #14109226 - 03/12/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You're right, you absolutely can use it as spawn or even your fruiting substrate, but be aware that you might suffer yield losses or stalling.






really? I doubt it.

Unless they're soaking in it and half the jar looks like it's melting he'll have nothing to worry about especially when spawning to bulk. Since bacteria is not a contaminant of bulk substrates it's not uncommon to see metabolites in bulk with no loss in yields or stalling. No need to get him freakin' for no reason brotherman.


--------------------
Expect poison from standing water.

The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.


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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109256 - 03/12/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

no worries, i was gonna do it anyway. just nice to hear that it's been successfull for others.


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OfflineSanteni
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109257 - 03/12/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've used jars with this substance in it. Still fruits. its ok


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109274 - 03/12/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

bacteria is so a contaminant of bulk substrate and can affect yield


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14109293 - 03/12/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, good call, I shouldn't be getting him worked up over what will probably amount to nothing.  About five years (or so) ago, I tried spawning a colonized jar that had shrunk to about 2/3 it's original volume and was basically stewing in the waste (probably ~2 inches; YUCK!)  That one did not perform so well. :crazy:  But I have also (more recently) used jars that had metabolic waste in them that did nearly as well as their fresher isolate counterparts.  The only difference was that it took it 2-3 days longer to colonize the bulk substrate.


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: cyantific]
    #14109308 - 03/12/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Absolutely true.  Bacteria is fucking EVERYWHERE.  The battle against it is constant as it can show up at almost any part of the cultivation and destroy all of your hard work.  A colonized bulk substrate will be more resistant to microbial contamination than an uncolonized one, but nevertheless, the possibility of infection is still ever-present.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #14109329 - 03/12/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yup ... get some bacteria funk going on in a tub youre in trouble ... it can and often does fruit to a degree but nothing like it would fully healthy as the mycelium is putting more work into fighting infection and producing metabolites than it is into fruiting ... also there is almost no chance whatsoever of a second flush which of course means less yield ...

the op would do well to spawn heavier than normal with about a 2 inch substrate of proactive medium such as hpoo or cpoo to get as much beneficial bacteria as possible ...


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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: cyantific]
    #14109824 - 03/12/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what!?

Bacteria overwhelming your spawn in excess will destroy a bulk grow but it's actually an ally when it comes to bulk. In fact, it's beneficial bacteria that gives your myc time to colonize the substrate. Manure is well defended turf - that's why we don't sterilize but pasteurize. Sterilize manure and throw it outside and see what happens. This isn't new - use the search engine guys.


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Expect poison from standing water.

The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.


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OfflineTrippinTime
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14111034 - 03/12/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ok thanks for all the information!  there is maybe 0.5cm of the liquid in the jar when i tilt it to a corner, so barely any.  the mycelium grew very healthily but now it is just hungry, so if I were to g2g wouldn't i be introducing fresh nutrients and it would grow alright still?


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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: TrippinTime]
    #14112743 - 03/13/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It'll be fine to G2G but where are you goin' with it? to bulk? or just more jars?


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Expect poison from standing water.

The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14117419 - 03/14/11 12:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Since bacteria is not a contaminant of bulk substrates it's not uncommon to see metabolites in bulk with no loss in yields or stalling. No need to get him freakin' for no reason brotherman.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bacteria overwhelming your spawn in excess will destroy a bulk grow but it's actually an ally when it comes to bulk. In fact, it's beneficial bacteria that gives your myc time to colonize the substrate. Manure is well defended turf - that's why we don't sterilize but pasteurize. Sterilize manure and throw it outside and see what happens. This isn't new - use the search engine guys.





haha ! so which is it there mr search function? kind of a flip flop i would say ! stop gettng butthurt about being corrected and start listening to ppl who know what they are talking about ... he has weakened spawn out of the jar ... spawning a bit heavier will give him a head-start on achieving fuller colonization before other invaders can attach themselves to the bacteria-weakened grains present in the batch ... some of said kernels are likely not to regenerate at all and you are gonna want mycelium retaking them over from other areas in the grow before a contaminate spore can get to them ... yes bacteria can ruin a grow hence me correcting you about your uppermost post there ^ ... this is more a concern when the bacteria is present in the substrate not invitro as the mycelium has already proven it can put up a fight against whatever brand of bac is present IF indeed it has remained in any condition to spawn ... coupled with a bacterial proactive medium such as hpoo or cpoo you have a fighting chance ... had to laugh at you telling me to use the search engine in regards to pasteurization ! hahaha this isnt my first barbeque there hoss ...

*somewhat pointless in this thread anyway as its likely just biproduct of consumption being as he said they were fully colonized beforehand ... thats my bad for not initially reading the post clearly ... still , my reason for saying somewhat , older jars like that still fall under the reasoning that you are going to have weaker and not as expansive growth and hence want more of a head-start in the grow ...


Edited by cyantific (03/14/11 12:38 AM)


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14117532 - 03/14/11 12:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Boomstik said:
It'll be fine to G2G but where are you goin' with it? to bulk? or just more jars?



how would one G2G to bulk ... do tell ...


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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: cyantific]
    #14117702 - 03/14/11 01:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

sounds like someone else is butthurt not me. haha. wah! wah!

He said he had a 'bunch of jars' so if they were obviously 'weakened' why would he risk going to G2G via your "intelligent explanation" of bacteria and his weakened mycelium when he'd have a better chance of saving it by spawning it to bulk or fruiting them now? He's obviously going somewhere with it to fruit and I assumed he's going to bulk at some point so I asked when he was going to do so or if he was just trying to stretch them to more jars before he did or if he was casing and fruiting them. my bad.

I apologize for hurting your feelings, insulting your obvious expertise in this field, and getting off topic.


--------------------
Expect poison from standing water.

The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.


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InvisibleDZ
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: cyantific]
    #14117767 - 03/14/11 01:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
how would one G2G to bulk ... do tell ...



LOL  :facepalm3:


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Weird liquid in fully colonized jars [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
    #14117951 - 03/14/11 02:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Boomstik said:
It'll be fine to G2G but where are you goin' with it? to bulk? or just more jars?



how would one G2G to bulk ... do tell ...




i know what you re saying now but the way you said it was stupid and ill constructed ... you need to work on your writing skills ... just because it makes sense in your head doesn't mean it makes sense on here ... the words "they'll" / "them " in place of "it'll" / "it" and the insertion of the word "also" somewhere in the vicinity of "bulk" would have gone a long way in completing a coherent question. i dont know how stupid you are i have to take what i see at face value ...


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