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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Shpongle1]
    #14119589 - 03/14/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:

Are you implying that I'm just creating this reality in my mind?  Like a waking dream of some kind..?  Because if not then I can assume that the things around me are real because other people are seeing the same things as me.





The physical world definitely exists, but at any time - the individuals only percieves a small portion of what is going on around them.
Take for example the light spectrum - of which the human eye can only percieve a small portion. With sound it is the same, the brain can only process vibrations within a certain range.
So while this world is solid, it exists in nonsubstantial layers some of which we see and some of which we do not. "We" being a subjective term for the individual, but collectively. That is to say: each percieves the layers of reality which they can concieve, and that is different for all.

"I exist, therfore I am." One can apply this logic to the physical world, it exists therefore it exists. To a degree it can be communicated though how any piece of information is percieved can vary between individuals.
As an extreme example, take a color blind individual and someone with healthy vision. They can both observe, calculate and measure an object but percieve it differently.

The physical reality exists but it is not the only reality or the center of reality. The term physical itself is poetic for most of what we percieve is not made up of matter, and matter itself is only concentrated energy. Wherever you want to draw the boundaries, it is real and it is less than a fraction of totality.


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


Edited by ahchela (03/14/11 02:06 PM)


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InvisibleVaranid
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: ahchela]
    #14120941 - 03/14/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ah
Quote:

ahchela said:
Quote:

Varanid said:
Don't underestimate your brains power.




In my understanding, which is derived largely from sober OBE's and deep meditation, the brain is only a machine - not the creater of the mind, or its counterpart, or its physical manifestation.
The mind itself is a machine, and thought is an illusory process.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the brain muscle, its not helping anyone when they're corporeal body ceases to function.

As far as science has come, it deals exclusively with mundane and trivial physical observations. One is better off looking within and following the stream of light and sound towards reality, than observing and making a study of the manifestations of their delusions - the physical world.




To talk about this further I guess I would have to know do you think our soul, or some other unmeasurable piece of "us" is what controls our brain like we do a computer? Your total lack of concern for the brain confuses me. Yeah it doesn't help when our body ceases to function, its supplied with the necessary things to operate by the body. I'm not really understanding you it seems you think your brain is worthless and like a car I am guessing. Scientist don't even true ly understand the brain disregarding it power is irresponsible in my opinion. And scientist dealing with mundane and trivial physical observations makes me wander what you are thinking really. I dont understand your point I guess.  Our brains are worthless except keeping us alive and science only focuses on BS? Well science is by far mundane and our brains are our prison cells and the medium for which we think, I think therefore I am. I really don't get what you were trying to say. I'm trying to understand but it seems you disregard everything for something you didn't explain.


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Varanid]
    #14122342 - 03/14/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well I'm just making conversation, maybe I'm speaking too much in a persuasive or pseudo-authoritive manner, but really I'm just throwing in my two cents to be taken however it will be.
It would be impossible for me to prove my point, as it comes from personal experience and the validity of it can only be tested 1st hand. So these words are only food for thought.

I do not think the individual can consciously control the brain, but I would definitely relate it to the drivers seat of a car. Only a car that the individual is conjoined with, so they control the body through the brain but without consulting it.
The individual and their conscious mind exist beyond the corporeal world where the physical body exists. Stepping out of this body, there is no connection to the brain but conscious thought is still possible.

This is the point where it becomes your subjective reality. One who has never experienced leaving their body consciously, can only choose to believe or disbelieve that the individual exists beyond the body.
On the other hand one who has left the body, has no measure to verify that the experience was infact an OBE and not the product of their mind.
For me personally, in my experience there is a sense of validity in consistency and communion with individuals I also know physically. When two people remember an experience, that is as much proof as you can get for anything. That does not translate to anyone past myself however, for in my mind I know, in anothers mind I believe, in anothers mind I am delusional.
:shrug:



So yes I view the brain as no more than a tool, as seperation from it has never caused me to lose thought. If I have no connection to it and can still rationalize, then it is neither the center of my memory or intellect. *edit: I should point out that brain damage can affect the individuals train of thought, it is similar to having a broken steering column or a window covered in snow. The individual may not be affected but their ability to control the car is.
Physical science is definitely not bs though, it focuses on mundane things but that is its nature. Through physical science we get our standard of living and much of our understanding of this universe. Mycology is a science, and without that we wouldn't know how to differentiate shrooms from poisonous mushrooms. A mundane task, but a neccessity. Through mathematics we can communicate more effeciently with others, with ourselves and with our universe. Science is all good, it just cannot penetrate where the laws of physics do not apply.


Again I'm not trying to say I am all knowing and correct, just stating my current understanding as best as I can put into words. Food for thought :peace:


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


Edited by ahchela (03/14/11 10:16 PM)


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Offlineobladi oblada
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: ahchela]
    #14125211 - 03/15/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Well that would have more to do with conversation or logic than the general experience of reality. Personally I wouldn't say logic gets involved until the percieved information is organized in some way.





Yes, perception goes beyond logic. It is possible that, during the confusion of sleep deprivation, logic fails but perception does not.


Quote:

When I have seizure I have no thoughts in my head I just "know" and reality is def different. Feels like I'm living the exact same thing for the second time except a life time later. Neurologist explained it as a delay in my brains processing of information. I am living it twice. Once in reality and the other my perception which is only a nanosecond off. All that is in a malfunction of my brain and its electrical circuits.





Yes, thats the same as deja vu. The two hemispheres of your brain processing at different times.


--------------------
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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Varanid]
    #14130578 - 03/16/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Varanid said:
Ah
Quote:

ahchela said:
Quote:

Varanid said:
Don't underestimate your brains power.




In my understanding, which is derived largely from sober OBE's and deep meditation, the brain is only a machine - not the creater of the mind, or its counterpart, or its physical manifestation.
The mind itself is a machine, and thought is an illusory process.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the brain muscle, its not helping anyone when they're corporeal body ceases to function.

As far as science has come, it deals exclusively with mundane and trivial physical observations. One is better off looking within and following the stream of light and sound towards reality, than observing and making a study of the manifestations of their delusions - the physical world.




To talk about this further I guess I would have to know do you think our soul, or some other unmeasurable piece of "us" is what controls our brain like we do a computer? Your total lack of concern for the brain confuses me. Yeah it doesn't help when our body ceases to function, its supplied with the necessary things to operate by the body. I'm not really understanding you it seems you think your brain is worthless and like a car I am guessing. Scientist don't even true ly understand the brain disregarding it power is irresponsible in my opinion. And scientist dealing with mundane and trivial physical observations makes me wander what you are thinking really. I dont understand your point I guess.  Our brains are worthless except keeping us alive and science only focuses on BS? Well science is by far mundane and our brains are our prison cells and the medium for which we think, I think therefore I am. I really don't get what you were trying to say. I'm trying to understand but it seems you disregard everything for something you didn't explain.




It has become rather cancerous to our understanding of the enigmatic brain-body duality. The absolute materialistic reduction that sciences abides to has eroded our ability to see the abstract process that arise out of the complex quantum function of our brain. Its almost as if the brain is a mirror that reflects the perception gleaned from our senses into the awareness of the conscious self, attempts to explain the mind and the creativity and consciousness that arise out of it with the same methodology in the sciences is akin to trying to explain the taste of a apple to someone by only hinting at its shape, texture, form, and color.


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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14132792 - 03/16/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

attempts to explain the mind and the creativity and consciousness that arise out of it with the same methodology in the sciences is akin to trying to explain the taste of a apple to someone by only hinting at its shape, texture, form, and color.




Wouldn't this suggest to you that the mind is simply a subjective illusion rather than anything actually existing in objective reality?

You've basically just admitted that we can't perform any quantitative measurements of the mind. Why is it then more rational to believe in dualism than it is to be a materialist? At least materialists use empirical data to confirm their beliefs whereas dualists simply say "it feels like we do have a mind so we must have one"


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: durantz]
    #14132906 - 03/16/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
You've basically just admitted that we can't perform any quantitative measurements of the mind



While this is true the brain and mind are very mysterious and complicated things.  We know that activation of certain parts of the brains produce certain feelings or thoughts... maybe in the future we will be able quantitativly measure certain levels of chemical messengers which equate to aspects of mind (thoughts, feelings ect ect.)

We simply just don't know enough about the brain to quantitatively measure anything:shrug:


--------------------
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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: durantz]
    #14133116 - 03/16/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

attempts to explain the mind and the creativity and consciousness that arise out of it with the same methodology in the sciences is akin to trying to explain the taste of a apple to someone by only hinting at its shape, texture, form, and color.




Wouldn't this suggest to you that the mind is simply a subjective illusion rather than anything actually existing in objective reality?

You've basically just admitted that we can't perform any quantitative measurements of the mind. Why is it then more rational to believe in dualism than it is to be a materialist? At least materialists use empirical data to confirm their beliefs whereas dualists simply say "it feels like we do have a mind so we must have one"




You would deny your own senses and awareness of self as being some phantasm of ordered process's? The feeling exists I know what I feel and that I am perceiving the feeling. Being a materialist amounts to nothing more then assuming its governed by a law even though you havent a faintest idea what that law is. Even through the simple exertion of meditation of willing that inner stillness brainwave patterns are changed. By thought. Quantum physics is in full support of this as you would be aware of if you ever read about schrodingers cat or Einstein's paradox of quantum entanglement through which the very action of observation affects the result.

EDIT: its not dualism im trying to prove to you, both dualism and materialism in there own aspects fail to explain the mind body problem, materialism kills the question before it is even asked.


Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (03/16/11 07:55 PM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14134301 - 03/16/11 11:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

materialism kills the question before it is even asked.




That's why I like it. Keep things simple... :P

Quote:

You would deny your own senses and awareness of self as being some phantasm of ordered process's?




Sorry I misunderstand this question, the wording is not clear for me.

Quote:

By thought. Quantum physics is in full support of this as you would be aware of if you ever read about schrodingers cat or Einstein's paradox of quantum entanglement through which the very action of observation affects the result.




It has been hypothesised that the action of observing these events alters the result because when photons bounce off the electrons they throw them into a different trajectory. So what appears to be 'random' could actually be determined, it's just being affected on a scale not thought of by Schrodinger or Einstein... How many experiments have they done to actually confirm these theories???? One? Two?


This concept of mind that you have is simply your ego which has it's foundation in the structure of the brain. If you are trying to tell me you have an ego then sure I'll agree with you. But to try and tell me you've got some kind of mystical mind, independent of body I will disagree 100% of the time.


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: durantz] * 1
    #14134708 - 03/17/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Boogy Woogy


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: ahchela]
    #14135512 - 03/17/11 07:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You need to stop viewing any notion of the immaterial with such scorn and cynicism, Im not trying to prove we have some sort of mystical soul hear that continues on after we die.


What im trying to say is in the mind body relation there lies a clear distinction between the two not to say there separable, but mind arises out of the brain as something distinct in its shape and feel, its free will. The mind is even capable of shaping the brain. If you calm yourself into a state of meditation, through the application of will, brain wave patterns change in physicality. The brain even shows a amount of neuroplasticity in adults such as this study done on patients with OCD

http://cognet.mit.edu/posters/TUCSON3/Schwartz.html

Where the doctor trained them in mindful thinking as treatment, to be aware of the distinction between a compulsion and a regular thought and to maintain the awareness that its not real. Before and after they underwent successful treatment PET scans where taken and the over active fear circuit that was shown to cause OCD was altered and rewired through the application of the patients will alone. Consciousness itself affected the matter which it is supposed to be a product of, according to materialism. Which really makes you wonder how this mind-body relationship arises out of the material of the brain.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14135764 - 03/17/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
...mind arises out of the brain as something distinct in its shape and feel, its free will.


What do you mean by distinct in its "shape and feel"? How do you know that the mind arises out of the brain due to its free will?


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
The mind is even capable of shaping the brain.


But what does this prove?


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Consciousness itself affected the matter which it is supposed to be a product of, according to materialism.


What is so amazing about this?


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Which really makes you wonder how this mind-body relationship arises out of the material of the brain.


It doesn't make me wonder that; the mind is basically a sort of program in the brain, that this program can change the shape of the brain is not really too amazing to me.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (03/17/11 09:52 AM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14135951 - 03/17/11 09:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am beginning to understand what you are trying to say. And I think we actually have similar ideas about this. It's just very hard to put it into words.

I do agree with you that the consciousness (you call it mind) can influence the brain. But I believe that the consciousness feeds off the brain. So it may be simply that neurons in one part of the brain fire which causes a change in consciousness which then loops back to cause a change in a different location in the brain. A perpetual loop that is set in motion at the time of conception (depends on your idea of when we develop consciousness)


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: durantz]
    #14138860 - 03/17/11 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Who is to say that the sober state is the true state?




In regards to RP's original question, I question the very notion of "true" state to begin with. We have a "default" state of consciousness which evolution has carved into an amazing tool for survival. That said, because it aids us in survival does not mean that it "is the true state."

Furthermore, your very question in the way you worded it, implies that you believe in a 'true state' of consciousness somewhere, someplace, at somepoint. Perhpas you believe that certain altered states of consciousness, meditative, psychedelice, or otherwise, may grant us truer pictures of reality. Like your original metaphor suggests, seeing things from a different perspective doesn't mean you have seen objective, true, reality--only that you have changed the horizons of your perspective.

The idea that there exists a true state of consciousness sounds as naive and foolish as the idea that different software programs have more truth to them than others, eg, Word>Photoshop. To me, consciousness seems like a tool that we use to interact with the world. We can say that some tools work better than other tools in certain contexts, bound by certain perameters, but to say that a voltmeter gives us a truer picture of reality than a barometer... well, that just sounds dumb. :shrug:

Last thing: I would like to add my own two cents to the brief mention of quantum mechanics. I would like to offer my own, incomplete, perspective on QM.

When QM says that you cannot separate the observe from the observed, I understand that as meaning that "the lens through which you perceive reality, alters you perception of the object," which means something completely different than, "the mental intentions of the physicist somehow influences the physicality of the object observed."

So, I understand the famous double slit experiment as expressing the fact that how you conduct the experiment affects the outcome of the experiment. I think when people hear about the particle-wave paradox, they mistakenly believe that the SAME experiment yields two different results depending on the mental expectations of the physicist. The particle-wave paradox exists because we have different experimental evidence to support both models of matter: matter as a wave, and matter as a particle.

So when we hear that QM says, "the observer influences the experiment," I understand that as meaning, "the nature of questioning influences the nature of the answer."

If the need arises, I'll express my understanding of Schrodinger's cat at some other point.

Side Note: I think the shroomery needs a gremlin for quantum mechanics. All you artsy, graphics people, get CRACKIN!


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Poid]
    #14139366 - 03/17/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
...mind arises out of the brain as something distinct in its shape and feel, its free will.


What do you mean by distinct in its "shape and feel"? How do you know that the mind arises out of the brain due to its free will?


Uhhh whats the question? Do I say free will is the cause of anything?

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
The mind is even capable of shaping the brain.


But what does this prove?


It's basically showing that consciousness has the capacity to affect matter which I would go so far as to say means its something else entirely from the matter it is generated out of.

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Consciousness itself affected the matter which it is supposed to be a product of, according to materialism.


What is so amazing about this?

Thought is affecting matter.

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Which really makes you wonder how this mind-body relationship arises out of the material of the brain.


It doesn't make me wonder that; the mind is basically a sort of program in the brain, that this program can change the shape of the brain is not really too amazing to me.




A sort of program? How does one get a sort of program? saying its a program implies free will is a illusion and were all autonamous, the brain does a pretty fuckin miraculous thing by producing consciousness out of regularly inanimate "non thinking" matter I find the very question of how this happens tantalizing.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: ShroomScape]
    #14139398 - 03/17/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomScape said:
Quote:

Who is to say that the sober state is the true state?




In regards to RP's original question, I question the very notion of "true" state to begin with. We have a "default" state of consciousness which evolution has carved into an amazing tool for survival. That said, because it aids us in survival does not mean that it "is the true state."

Furthermore, your very question in the way you worded it, implies that you believe in a 'true state' of consciousness somewhere, someplace, at somepoint. Perhpas you believe that certain altered states of consciousness, meditative, psychedelice, or otherwise, may grant us truer pictures of reality. Like your original metaphor suggests, seeing things from a different perspective doesn't mean you have seen objective, true, reality--only that you have changed the horizons of your perspective.

The idea that there exists a true state of consciousness sounds as naive and foolish as the idea that different software programs have more truth to them than others, eg, Word>Photoshop. To me, consciousness seems like a tool that we use to interact with the world. We can say that some tools work better than other tools in certain contexts, bound by certain perameters, but to say that a voltmeter gives us a truer picture of reality than a barometer... well, that just sounds dumb. :shrug:

Last thing: I would like to add my own two cents to the brief mention of quantum mechanics. I would like to offer my own, incomplete, perspective on QM.

When QM says that you cannot separate the observe from the observed, I understand that as meaning that "the lens through which you perceive reality, alters you perception of the object," which means something completely different than, "the mental intentions of the physicist somehow influences the physicality of the object observed."

So, I understand the famous double slit experiment as expressing the fact that how you conduct the experiment affects the outcome of the experiment. I think when people hear about the particle-wave paradox, they mistakenly believe that the SAME experiment yields two different results depending on the mental expectations of the physicist. The particle-wave paradox exists because we have different experimental evidence to support both models of matter: matter as a wave, and matter as a particle.

So when we hear that QM says, "the observer influences the experiment," I understand that as meaning, "the nature of questioning influences the nature of the answer."

If the need arises, I'll express my understanding of Schrodinger's cat at some other point.

Side Note: I think the shroomery needs a gremlin for quantum mechanics. All you artsy, graphics people, get CRACKIN!




totally agree with you dude. Especially with the concept of the consciousness as a survival mechanism.

The consciousness brings 'order' to our universe (I'm not saying that the universe doesn't have natural order it's just that to the common person we do not have access to the scientific instruments that are necessary to discover this order). The consciousness operates on the laws of causation to build a predictable system for us to understand the universe through. This has allowed us to make 'safe' assumptions on what outcomes to expect in certain situations; "when I go to the shop there will be food there".

What happens (well what is happening to me) when you undergo the psychedelic experience is that your consciousness takes a severe battering. The systems and self-organizing patterns, that your consciousness operates on, are broken down and information is allowed to flow more freely into the consciousness. Many people agree that the psychedelic experience allows them to see the world in a more objective manner, as if looking at it from outside yourself.

The long term result of this (in my case anyway) is that my ego has been majorly upset. The way I thought the world works before I started taking psychedelics just doesn't cut the mustard for me anymore. So at the moment I'm going through a period of turmoil and chaos. My survival mechanism (consciousness) is very weak at the moment and is failing to provide sufficient order in this world.

So I hypothesize that the consciousness will adapt to this and will create another, different, version of itself which will provide the order I need for my survival. I can already feel this taking affect as my goals and desires shift away from what they were a couple of years ago.

This has ramifications for the possibility of ego death. If my theory is correct then ego death would not be possible. The process would merely be a progression of the ego in the same way that a snake sheds its skin as its body grows bigger and requires more space. When you've reached a certain level of 'enlightenment' you require a 'bigger?'/'more complex?' ego to grow into. This process can be repeated until you die but I'm not so sure on actually being able to completely kill ego. I still think the only way to do this is to kill the body.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14139446 - 03/17/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
...mind arises out of the brain as something distinct in its shape and feel, its free will.


What do you mean by distinct in its "shape and feel"? How do you know that the mind arises out of the brain due to its free will?


Uhhh whats the question? Do I say free will is the cause of anything?


Well honestly, I don't really totally understand what you were trying to say there; what were you saying about free will? Can you rephrase that?


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
It's basically showing that consciousness has the capacity to affect matter which I would go so far as to say means its something else entirely from the matter it is generated out of.


Why would you go so far as to say that?


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

What is so amazing about this?




Thought is affecting matter.


What is so amazing about that? Thoughts affect matter all the time; every thought you have has a corresponding brain state, and every time you think a new thought that state is altered.


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

It doesn't make me wonder that; the mind is basically a sort of program in the brain, that this program can change the shape of the brain is not really too amazing to me.




A sort of program? How does one get a sort of program? saying its a program implies free will is a illusion...


Not necessarily; it would depend on how you define "free will".


Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
the brain does a pretty fuckin miraculous thing by producing consciousness out of regularly inanimate "non thinking" matter I find the very question of how this happens tantalizing.


I think consciousness is amazing, too; I don't think the fact that thoughts can affect physical brain states is very amazing, though. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleVaranid
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Poid]
    #14140277 - 03/17/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You all took this over my head so Ill be talking in simple terms. I understand what you are all saying and agree we can't truely measure the mind/us/soul. I think out conscious is only an interface with our subconscious. I think we start life with a disposition and open mind. As we live we experience things that take us past "instincts". I think just as we learn thing but can't remember them we have came to decisions about how we respond to others and situations as well as how we view the world that becomes our ego. As said above tripping knocks us out of our usual sight picture as well as out of our conscious thought pattern and our subconscious mind shows its self in its vastness. I'm going to go read and look up what you guys are talking about.

ShroomScape you did a way better job of explaining what I was thinking about a true state, I was going to come back and say a true state of mind would be like true reality

I also agree ego death would be an ever evolving thing. I thing we are our ego in a way, just a traditional ego death is realizing who you really are in your actions, though patterns and such and knowing you are different/unhappy with it.

*EDIT* Ok I think this thread will be dead before I get done reading on everthing mention like the cat!


Edited by Varanid (03/17/11 10:53 PM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: Varanid]
    #14140550 - 03/17/11 11:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ok I think this thread will be dead before I get done reading on everthing mention like the cat!




Don't worry dude you can do the reading and when you have another idea just post it in the forum.

Keep learning!!


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InvisibleVaranid
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Re: Drugs on the brain --> perception of reality [Re: durantz]
    #14141491 - 03/18/11 03:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Read an intro to quantum mechanics/physics/electrodynamics. Long story short (I think) everything is waves (light, radio, water. . . waves), and particles ( I took as matter?). Even light has particles that collide with solid material in a form of energy (sun burn).

Once something is measured it become one or the other. If light is measured it is what it was measured. Color (wave) or particle (energy/electron causing a proton to discharge upon impact?) Not all light but the light that was measured.

The Schrodinger cat is an over simplification of this and more things I have to reread. The cat is stuck in a box with something that will kill it. Until the box is opened the cat is both alive and dead to the universe, until observed (measured?)

After the cat/measurement/observation there the question of where the other state went, ie multiple world/realities/dimensions.

*edit*

I guess taking what I actually understood and going back to the original question I'm going to say the true state of mind would be a fallacy. I would say similar to true skin color tho exponentially more complex. Or true state of mind could be considered true reality, as we have no way of measuring what were looking/talking about or standardizing and comparing it directly its all relative and open to perception.

Next time I trip I'm going to be pondering what quantum events are happening in my brain. I'm going to get mind fucked I believe. Thanks to the OP and all you others. Pretty stimulating discussion.


Edited by Varanid (03/18/11 04:28 AM)


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