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OfflinejivJaN
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My productive deed for the day.
    #14102582 - 03/11/11 06:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I was just thinking a minute ago as i was lighting my cigarette, about the soft pack i got today. I usually buy them in a store close to me and they don't have the soft pack but today i went to wal greens and i saw the soft , so i got that.
Anyhow.. when you have a soft pack ,you don't always know how many you smoked and how many you have left.
I usually smoke the whole pack almost and leave a few for the morning coffee.

I just ripped up the pack to check aaand today.. i only smoked half.

All of this made me wonder about our addictions and how having or not having awareness of something (such as the amount left) can influence its pattern in such a way.

It also made me try and make a connection between supply and consumption when it comes to material addictions.


HACK THE BRAIN :crazybaby:

Your thoughts ?


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14102625 - 03/11/11 06:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
I was just thinking a minute ago as i was lighting my cigarette, about the soft pack i got today. I usually buy them in a store close to me and they don't have the soft pack but today i went to wal greens and i saw the soft , so i got that.
Anyhow.. when you have a soft pack ,you don't always know how many you smoked and how many you have left.
I usually smoke the whole pack almost and leave a few for the morning coffee.

I just ripped up the pack to check aaand today.. i only smoked half.



  :pimphat:
  :mrt::cig:


Quote:

jivJaN said:
All of this made me wonder about our addictions and how having or not having awareness of something (such as the amount left) can influence its pattern in such a way.


What's so wonderful about that?


Quote:

jivJaN said:
It also made me try and make a connection between supply and consumption when it comes to material addictions.


Of course there's a connection..generally, when you have a lot, you consume a lot, and when you have very little, you consume very little. I know, it's trippy, huh? :thirdeyeani:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14102739 - 03/11/11 07:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Of course there's a connection..generally, when you have a lot, you consume a lot, and when you have very little, you consume very little.




I think that sometimes its quite the opposite. People smoke more cigarettes and smoke them in shorter intervals as they get closer to the end of the pack.
I've seen this happen time and time again with myself and by observing others.
It's this strange urge to finish it. To KNOW that you're out now.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14102746 - 03/11/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Quote:

Of course there's a connection..generally, when you have a lot, you consume a lot, and when you have very little, you consume very little.




I think that sometimes its quite the opposite. People smoke more cigarettes and smoke them in shorter intervals as they get closer to the end of the pack.
I've seen this happen time and time again with myself and by observing others.


It might have something to do with wanting to re-cop. :lol:


Quote:

jivJaN said:
It's this strange urge to finish it. To KNOW that you're out now.


You're just in a rush to re-cop, IMO, when you do that. (I'm using the general 'you' here)


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14102910 - 03/11/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It also happens when you aren't able to get more.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14102926 - 03/11/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Because you want the rush so badly due to the fact that you know you won't be gettin' any of that shit any time soon. :awedrugs:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14103181 - 03/11/11 09:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

All of this made me wonder about our addictions and how having or not having awareness of something (such as the amount left) can influence its pattern in such a way.




I would say it potentially indicates a psychological component involved in addiction.

Obviously there IS such a thing as physical withdrawal, I am not suggesting otherwise, but is it always the case and how do we accurately gauge its extent?

I think it is interesting to consider the implications that many of our "withdrawal" symptoms that we consider physical, may actually be psychological.


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14103196 - 03/11/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
I think it is interesting to consider the implications that many of our "withdrawal" symptoms that we consider physical, may actually be psychological.


How can sickness and pain be considered psychological? :undecided:

I think that many unpleasant symptoms resulting from addiction can either be made better or worse by thought patterns, but I don't think any physical withdrawal symptoms are psychological in nature in-and-of-themselves.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14103217 - 03/11/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

but I don't think any physical withdrawal symptoms are psychological in nature in-and-of-themselves.




No, not entirely.

The point I am interested in, is being able to differentiate between the two, where the physical symptoms end, and the psychological begin.

See psychosomatic illness and also Placebo effects.


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14103256 - 03/11/11 10:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
The point I am interested in, is being able to differentiate between the two, where the physical symptoms end, and the psychological begin.


I may be missing something here, but I don't see why doing that would be difficult; we know what psychological phenomenon look like, and we know what physical phenomenon look like, so why would it be hard to tell them apart when analyzing the properties of addiction?


Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
See psychosomatic illness and also Placebo effects.


Sure, thoughts can cause physical symptoms, but that doesn't mean that they are physical symptoms; an addicted person may experience thoughts that cause physical symptoms, but those thoughts themselves are not physical symptoms, they are psychological in nature. Again, I'm not sure why it would be hard to differentiate a thought from, say, a stomach ache, lightheadedness, or any other physical manifestation of addiction.


I feel like what you're trying to say is that the point you're interested in is being able to identify how psychological symptoms can influence physical symptoms in an addicted person (and vice-versa), & which contributes more to the addiction.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14103297 - 03/11/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I feel like what you're trying to say is that the point you're interested in is being able to identify how psychological symptoms can influence physical symptoms in an addicted person (and vice-versa), & which contributes more to the addiction.




Which symptoms of withdrawal are more contributed to by physical or psychological factors.

Going back to the cigarette analogy:

Lets say I was unaware that I had actually smoked all my cigarettes. I feel fine up to the point of realising this. When I find that I have none, the intensity of my desire to smoke increases.

From here to justify my need, I may tell myself that I already physically need it, and by "tell myself" I mean on a deeper subconscious level.

This is not to mention symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks due to the thought of possibly not being able to maintain a habit in the time it takes to start experiencing withdrawal.


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14103346 - 03/11/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I feel like what you're trying to say is that the point you're interested in is being able to identify how psychological symptoms can influence physical symptoms in an addicted person (and vice-versa), & which contributes more to the addiction.




Which symptoms of withdrawal are more contributed to by physical or psychological factors.

Going back to the cigarette analogy:

Lets say I was unaware that I had actually smoked all my cigarettes. I feel fine up to the point of realising this. When I find that I have none, the intensity of my desire to smoke increases.

From here to justify my need, I may tell myself that I already physically need it, and by "tell myself" I mean on a deeper subconscious level.


Well eventually the physical symptoms would've kicked in, and those would have influenced you to smoke a cigarette; IOW, if you would've ended up realizing that you're out of cigarettes no matter what, either as a result of a mere thought or an unpleasant bodily symptom.


Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
This is not to mention symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks due to the thought of possibly not being able to maintain a habit in the time it takes to start experiencing withdrawal.


Hmm, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say here, may you clarify it or state it in another way?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (03/11/11 12:18 PM)

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14103404 - 03/11/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
This is not to mention symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks due to the thought of possibly not being able to maintain a habit in the time it takes to start experiencing withdrawal.


Hmm, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say here, may clarify it or state it in another way?




Lets say that a mild withdrawal from a drug like an opiate, causes nausea and headaches etc, etc..These same symptoms are very common of anxiety and panic attacks as well.

If you are in any way addicted to opiates, it really isn't a pleasant to think of not being able to obtain more. I predict that you would experience panic before physical withdrawal, and I would also say the actual onset of physical withdrawal would blur.

:shrug: I don't know if that was any better...

I am starting to feel sick, and I can't sleep...It must be from all the opiates I am not having. :lol:


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14103723 - 03/11/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

Quote:

This is not to mention symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks due to the thought of possibly not being able to maintain a habit in the time it takes to start experiencing withdrawal.


Quote:

Hmm, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say here, may clarify it or state it in another way?







Lets say that a mild withdrawal from a drug like an opiate, causes nausea and headaches etc, etc..These same symptoms are very common of anxiety and panic attacks as well.

If you are in any way addicted to opiates, it really isn't a pleasant to think of not being able to obtain more. I predict that you would experience panic before physical withdrawal...


What if you took some opiates, then fell asleep and woke up the next day way past your usual fix-time, having no clue about how long you were asleep for--do you think you'd feel withdrawal symptoms immediately upon waking up, or do you think they'd only kick in as soon as you find out what time it is and how it's way past your fix-time? :syringe:


Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
...and I would also say the actual onset of physical withdrawal would blur.


Blur into what?


Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
I am starting to feel sick, and I can't sleep...It must be from all the opiates I am not having. :lol:


You're in some way addicted to opiates? :ooo::cig:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibleirie.one
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14104140 - 03/11/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

jivJaN said:
It also made me try and make a connection between supply and consumption when it comes to material addictions.


Of course there's a connection..generally, when you have a lot, you consume a lot, and when you have very little, you consume very little. I know, it's trippy, huh? :thirdeyeani:




I can attest to that. If I pick up a zip of herb at once, I smoke more frequently and use less efficient methods (blunts versus vaporizer)... But once I'm running low I savor it and cut down on how often I smoke :shrug:.

Same goes with money for me, if I get a fat paycheck I'm more likely to splurge and buy my buddies drinks when we go out or eat at nicer restaurants. And, same with weed, once I'm running low on cash I slow down my spending until payday comes along again...

Probably not the most responsible way of going through life but it keeps me happy :smile:.

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I feel like what you're trying to say is that the point you're interested in is being able to identify how psychological symptoms can influence physical symptoms in an addicted person (and vice-versa), & which contributes more to the addiction.




Which symptoms of withdrawal are more contributed to by physical or psychological factors.

Going back to the cigarette analogy:

Lets say I was unaware that I had actually smoked all my cigarettes. I feel fine up to the point of realising this. When I find that I have none, the intensity of my desire to smoke increases.

From here to justify my need, I may tell myself that I already physically need it, and by "tell myself" I mean on a deeper subconscious level.

This is not to mention symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks due to the thought of possibly not being able to maintain a habit in the time it takes to start experiencing withdrawal.




I've never been psychologically or physiologically addicted to anything (except being in love...), but I've seen my fair share of people going through withdrawals, especially from smoking cigarettes. I can see where you're coming from about that sense of panic that sets in causing you to want to smoke, especially since smokers tend to smoke when they feel anxious or panicky as it is.

I have a feeling it's really difficult to compartmentalize the physiological and psychological aspects of an addiction which probably has a negative synergistic effect where they both worsen the effects of each other more so than necessary.


--------------------
gettin' high to balance out the lows

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: jivJaN]
    #14104235 - 03/11/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
All of this made me wonder about our addictions and how having or not having awareness of something (such as the amount left) can influence its pattern in such a way.




Back when I was addicted to heroin I know that not having any made withdrawals much worse then if I knew I still had a stash.  Also getting a call from my dealer and knowing that I could get more heroin in a few hours definitely softened my withdrawal symptoms... it's very strange how interwoven the psychological aspects of addiction are to the physiological.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: deCypher]
    #14104519 - 03/11/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

jivJaN said:
All of this made me wonder about our addictions and how having or not having awareness of something (such as the amount left) can influence its pattern in such a way.




Back when I was addicted to heroin I know that not having any made withdrawals much worse then if I knew I still had a stash.  Also getting a call from my dealer and knowing that I could get more heroin in a few hours definitely softened my withdrawal symptoms... it's very strange how interwoven the psychological aspects of addiction are to the physiological.




This is the sort of thing I was attempting to get at, but apparently failed. I was foolishly trying to attribute the psychological to the physiological to the negative effect of withdrawal. Your example shows the psychological effect much more clearly in the way of a placebo, and being able to identify that effect. Whereas in the situations I was using, you wouldn't be able to, or at best it would be extremely difficult to differentiate the two, especially if the symptoms are very similar.

Quote:

You're in some way addicted to opiates?




No thank you. Been there, done that.

Interestingly or not as a side, one of the ways that I prolonged the addiction was the onset of the withdrawal symptoms (haha) no, I mean the specific types of symptoms I was getting...Even after I was informed by my doctor that it was withdrawal, I was still telling myself very consciously,

that gee, I can't quite get rid of this "flu" which seem to be hanging around, particularly when I hadn't had any for a day...:imslow:

(A physiological example of how "symptoms" can "blur" through similarity, and the psychological effect being prolonged denial about the addiction.)


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: irie.one]
    #14104588 - 03/11/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

irie.one said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

jivJaN said:
It also made me try and make a connection between supply and consumption when it comes to material addictions.


Of course there's a connection..generally, when you have a lot, you consume a lot, and when you have very little, you consume very little. I know, it's trippy, huh? :thirdeyeani:




I can attest to that. If I pick up a zip of herb at once, I smoke more frequently and use less efficient methods (blunts versus vaporizer)... But once I'm running low I savor it and cut down on how often I smoke :shrug:.

Same goes with money for me, if I get a fat paycheck I'm more likely to splurge and buy my buddies drinks when we go out or eat at nicer restaurants. And, same with weed, once I'm running low on cash I slow down my spending until payday comes along again...

Probably not the most responsible way of going through life but it keeps me happy :smile:.


That's so me! :yesnod:



Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

You're in some way addicted to opiates?




No thank you. Been there, done that.

Interestingly or not as a side, one of the ways that I prolonged the addiction was the onset of the withdrawal symptoms (haha) no, I mean the specific types of symptoms I was getting...Even after I was informed by my doctor that it was withdrawal, I was still telling myself very consciously,

that gee, I can't quite get rid of this "flu" which seem to be hanging around, particularly when I hadn't had any for a day...:imslow:

(A physiological example of how "symptoms" can "blur" through similarity, and the psychological effect being prolonged denial about the addiction.)


I'm still not getting this blur thing..which symptoms that you mentioned there became blurred through similarity? I understand that one psychological symptom is prolonged denial of the addiction, but I'm missing where you explained that this symptom was blurred with another one; which symptom was this one blurred with?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (03/11/11 03:45 PM)

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid] * 1
    #14104661 - 03/11/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:evildog:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: My productive deed for the day. [Re: Poid]
    #14104705 - 03/11/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

You're in some way addicted to opiates?




No thank you. Been there, done that.

Interestingly or not as a side, one of the ways that I prolonged the addiction was the onset of the withdrawal symptoms (haha) no, I mean the specific types of symptoms I was getting...Even after I was informed by my doctor that it was withdrawal, I was still telling myself very consciously,

that gee, I can't quite get rid of this "flu" which seem to be hanging around, particularly when I hadn't had any for a day...:imslow:

(A physiological example of how "symptoms" can "blur" through similarity, and the psychological effect being prolonged denial about the addiction.)


I'm still not getting this blur thing..which symptoms that you mentioned there became blurred through similarity? I understand that one psychological symptom is prolonged denial of the addiction, but I'm missing where you explained that this symptom was blurred with another one; which symptom was this one blurred with?




The symptoms of opiate withdrawal can be remarkably similar to that of a "flu."

Influenza. Specifically I thought I kept getting a flu, not experiencing withdrawal symptoms, and thus was in denial about being heavily addicted to codeine, because naturally as I wasn't having any problems with it, I could continue to use it as pain relief. :shrug:

Quote:

Symptoms of Codeine withdrawal

The list of signs and symptoms mentioned in various sources for Codeine withdrawal includes
the 15 symptoms listed below:
Runny nose
Sweating
Twitching muscles
Muscle pain
Headache
Irregular heartbeat
Nausea
Vomiting
High blood pressure
Fever
Insomnia
Dehydration
Yawning
Weakness
Stomach cramps
more information...ยป




http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/codeine_withdrawal/symptoms.htm

Quote:

Symptoms of Influenza
The most characteristic symptoms of influenza are weakness, fatigue, muscle aches, headaches, fever (101 to 102 degrees), sneezing, and maybe a runny nose. Although a person with influenza feels very sick, it rarely leads to more serious complications, except for those at greater risk.




http://www.healthscout.com/ency/1/251/main.html#SymptomsofInfluenza

The items on the opiate list not in bold (in my experience of both states) are easily transferable as well.

:peace:


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:inlove3::inlove3:

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