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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099880 - 03/10/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.





we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and frankle, what to I care if some guy in india doesnt have a job, I too have kids to feed and unlike most, I cant qualify for food stamps

are you aware that there's 30 million out of work in the US, there's also 27
million illegal aliens in the US, Mexico has a 5% unemployment rate and half
of our auto manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, etc... should we have just
handed the automakers billions so they could close more plants in the US and
send them to mexico? you think those high taxes had anything to do with
them leaving? how about the fact that they can send the goods back to the
US and not be taxed

yeah... we should keep giving all the jobs to other nations, that way we
can all live on welfare and never have to work again

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099906 - 03/10/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
why dont they impeach his ass?





this does not mean what you think it means, it's just part of a
process, clinton was impeached and remained in office





but there must be some clause stating if the people call to vote and an overwhelming majority wants him out he can be kicked out?!


This is what we have the second amendment for! "to, if nothing else, defend onesself against a tyrannous government



You can have a recall election but I believe that the person has to be in office for at least a year.


--------------------

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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099909 - 03/10/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

do you think the Governer of Michigan gives two shits about the people in other states losing jobs?

NO.
she is elected ONLY by the people of Michigan.
she wont care what you think unless your registered to vote in Michigan or want to make a significant campaign contribution.
It doesn't just affect new and small businesses
large corporations want tax breaks and will move there if it saves them money.

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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14099948 - 03/10/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.





we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and frankle, what to I care if some guy in india doesnt have a job, I too have kids to feed and unlike most, I cant qualify for food stamps

are you aware that there's 30 million out of work in the US, there's also 27
million illegal aliens in the US, Mexico has a 5% unemployment rate and half
of our auto manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, etc... should we have just
handed the automakers billions so they could close more plants in the US and
send them to mexico? you think those high taxes had anything to do with
them leaving? how about the fact that they can send the goods back to the
US and not be taxed

yeah... we should keep giving all the jobs to other nations, that way we
can all live on welfare and never have to work again




Whatever, Pris. I'm just saying that these are global problems, and just hoping corporations move back doesn't create jobs, it just moves them.

New idea. Raise tariffs on goods (and services?) that can and should be made/performed in the US, lower corporate taxes. Net impact on budget: 0. Yet, higher performance as far as providing incentive for companies to come back. If the corporations just try to hike up the prices instead of moving, people will probably stop buying their shit.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14100015 - 03/10/11 07:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
corporate tax breaks work on the state level by making that state more appealing to businesses
therefore more jobs move to that state.

its completely different on the federal level. trickle down economics is bullshit if yo ask me
but states can defiantly create jobs by lowering corporate taxes.




If a job moves to that state, it has to move from another state. It only affects new businesses opening up, and the VAST majority of new businesses are very small operations.





small companies are the #1 employer in the nation

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14100250 - 03/10/11 08:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Whatever, Pris. I'm just saying that these are global problems, and just hoping corporations move back doesn't create jobs, it just moves them.




it's primarily a national problem, at least for the US, if a company packs
up and goes to china, that's more jobs for china and fewer for us and no
one is hoping they'll move back here because that's not happening, but if
we start imposing tarrifs on all these goods coming into this country then
that's more revenue in the coffers, if we stop bailing out the
corporations that are too big to fail yet they're failing, they fold and
it makes room for someone else to take their place

banks got funds to issue loans to consumers in order to stimulate the
economy, they took the cash and dumped it into investments instead and
used the interest to repay the bailout funds, that did dick for the
economy either on the national or global scale, it certainly didnt allow
new businesses to start and create those new jobs

a few companies got stimulus funds to develop green energy, many of those
companies outsourced the work to china leaving the chinese with permanent
jobs and americans with short term temporary jobs doing installation

so now we have a global problem, only the rest of the globe isnt
suffering, they're profiting from the american dollar that was supposed to
aid the American people, the list goes on and on and the ones paying the
price is us, if the large corps leave the country there will be no
corporate taxes because all their domestic holding will be reporting
losses and asking for more bailouts... there's been 3 bailout bills so far
Quote:

New idea. Raise tariffs on goods (and services?) that can and should be made/performed in the US, lower corporate taxes. Net impact on budget: 0.




care to back that up? because when the automakers leave and the jobs go
with them that's less income tax as well as the corporate taxes, GM
reported record losses in the US and thus paid no taxes prior to the bail
outs yet the same corporation was reporting record sales in all other
markets other than germany, why didnt GM global support GM domestic

BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT A GLOBAL ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO RAPING THE TAX PAYER

Quote:

Yet, higher performance as far as providing incentive for companies to come back.





dont need them back, we need to start imposing tariffs on import goods
even from those companies, we need to knock off this free trade and
globalization bullshit because we're the only ones it's not free for, all
our exports are taxed and that keeps us from competing in that global
market yet the cheap chinese and mexican junk comes in tax free preventing
US corporations from competing in the domestic market

americans have lost faith in our manufacturing and banking, this is why
they've failed, if we have no faith in GM then why would we buy their
products, the chevy volt is a prime example of how government 'stimulated'
sales for a company we dont want to buy from, they produced a product that
can drive for an hour and has to be charged for 7 hours before it can go
another hour, yet the government insists this is the wave of the future
that wave sells a whopping 300 cars a month nationwide, a single
dealership sells 300 cars a month


dodge took a bailout in the late 70s, they went bankrupt, closed their
doors and government propped them up, the public wasnt buying the cars,
the government had to in order to show they were succeeding, it's the same
shit all over again and it's still a problem in this nation because
zimbabwe is unaffected, same with sweden, india and russia

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14100307 - 03/10/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think the biggest problem with America right now is that people are just too fucking distracted to participate in politics. We don't take any of what we hear about elections or budgets seriously anymore. It's gone completely beyond our comprehension when we regularly hear about the government flushing trillions of dollars they don't have down the toilet. None of it makes sense anymore. The credibility is completely gone, like dust in the wind.

It tends to blind us to how much power we actually DO have in the democracy that we've held onto, because there really is still a lot left. We are suffering from vertigo. This is caused by primarily paying attention to federal politics. We live in local political systems, and those local political systems remain quite responsive to our demands.

We've just been teased out of faith in our privilege to make any demands at all.

Pretty fucked.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100325 - 03/10/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I think the biggest problem with America right now is that people are just too fucking distracted to participate in politics. We don't take any of what we hear about elections or budgets seriously anymore. It's gone completely beyond our comprehension when we regularly hear about the government flushing trillions of dollars they don't have down the toilet. None of it makes sense anymore. The credibility is completely gone, like dust in the wind.

It tends to blind us to how much power we actually DO have in the democracy that we've held onto, because there really is still a lot left. We just get serious vertigo by looking at the national news and feel disempowered.




It does not help that all the mainstream media will air is shit about

Islamiphobia and bullshit about charlie sheen and Libya. Libya is only a concern for
us because of its oil. You think the US gives a shit about the things going on in
the Ivory Coast and other places.

Whats true whats false??

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100341 - 03/10/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time (or consensus) for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100344 - 03/10/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

many that follow politics are doing no more than listening to the news, the
news rarely reports accurately, they play games to incite the public on the
issues they wanna push, our popularity contest has become more of one every
election... luckily more people are getting the hint, READ THE FRIGGIN BILLS
and they start taking a more appropriate action with their congressmen

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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100352 - 03/10/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100361 - 03/10/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?





that video you posted is crap, it's a liberal shill trying to work up
liberals against the republicans, the problem isnt either or, it's both

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100362 - 03/10/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?




Well, do more research dude. I didn't even see that you were from Michigan. Figure out how much of what Maddow said was truth and how much was exaggeration. Read the bill. Understand its history. Understand the motives of the belligerents involved in this legislation, and then exercise your God-given rights.

If it comes down to protesting like an Egyptian, I will be in full support. :ninja:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100369 - 03/10/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?




Well, do more research dude. I didn't even see that you were from Michigan. Figure out how much of what Maddow said was truth and how much was exaggeration. Read the bill. Understand its history. Understand the motives of the belligerents involved in this legislation, and then exercise your God-given rights.

If it comes down to protesting like an Egyptian, I will be in full support. :ninja:




In progress

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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14102282 - 03/11/11 03:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.




You don't know what you're talking about. It isn't just huge mega corporations that are moving across seas. It's regular business, that employ PEOPLE. Not machines, manufacturing a product. It's more than that.

People move their business overseas because it's cheaper. They pay way less tax, and therefore make more money! Why would I do business in the U.S when I can move it to China and make twice as much? It's big government taxing it's people to overspend on BULLSHIT. That's the problem.


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...

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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14102721 - 03/11/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?





that video you posted is crap, it's a liberal shill trying to work up
liberals against the republicans, the problem isnt either or, it's both

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism




It only took three pages to be stated.  This lady is super liberal IME, I wouldn't take anything she says about Republicans too seriously.

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Offlineblujay
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14102742 - 03/11/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.




If you have no idea how Watson works, and what Watson is, you shouldn't use Watson as a precedent for the advancement of artificial intelligence. Unless the problem you're having with your Macbook is that you're having trouble determining every possible move and permutation of moves there-out in response to a chess master's decision and then finding the probabilities of success, Watson will not be able to help you.

Also voice recognition is nowhere near capable of handling the incredible variety of dialects, languages, and accents that humans blather out; never mind our ability to use grammar in backwards ways and still understand each other.

That said, computers/robots will probably continue to replace humans for specific tasks. So your point is solid, just not the example.


--------------------

wat man rly

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14102784 - 03/11/11 07:54 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I am never moving back to the United States.


--------------------

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #14102811 - 03/11/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
I am never moving back to the United States.



Good!  You'll tuk 'er j3rbs!




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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14102834 - 03/11/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Americans should have a mass exodus of biblical proportions. That would be

:awebig:


--------------------

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