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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14075241 - 03/06/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't notice you speeding. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTri High
Whigro
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Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Icelander]
    #14075260 - 03/06/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

get a room, old-farts.


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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Tri High] * 1
    #14075273 - 03/06/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Go play in traffic, snot nose kid.


And pull your fucking pants up, they're practically on the ground.


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Offlinecommuneart
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1,021
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14092563 - 03/09/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I fear that there might be problem with private policemen when it comes not really to national security but i don't really fear widespread corruption i pretty much fear events with widespread repercussions.

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Invisibledespisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc: Flag
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14093129 - 03/09/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Why is there no movement to remove socialized defense?




Because one of the most fundamental elements of a government is to protect the people.  If we could get the government to do a trade of sort -- frivolous spending from all spectrum for health care for our citizens, I'd support it.  But we live in reality, sadly.

Edited by despisedicon (03/09/11 03:34 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: despisedicon]
    #14094865 - 03/09/11 08:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
Quote:

Why is there no movement to remove socialized defense?




Because one of the most fundamental elements of a government is to protect the people.  If we could get the government to do a trade of sort -- frivolous spending from all spectrum for health care for our citizens, I'd support it.  But we live in reality, sadly.





$500bn goes to welfare, there's 50million people on welfare, that equates to
$100k per welfare recipient, can someone please sponsor me to be a welfare
recipient, I could use a new porche... seriously, if welfare is paying out
$10k per houshold in benefits, where's the other $90k going?

seems a good time to trim some fat asses from government to cut
the frivolous spending

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14095467 - 03/09/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what you are smoking or where you got those statistics from, but there are statistics for welfare expenditures per family that I had looked up when I was trying to compare corporate welfare (via CATO stats) to personal welfare (for an argument on here). The average per family expenditures was something like 20k or 27k. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that people on welfare are receiving 100k? Do you seriously believe this or are you intentionally trying to misconstrue the numbers here?


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14096410 - 03/10/11 05:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

maybe you should read that again because it the average welfare recipient is drawing $20k it's double what I stated

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 23 days, 11 hours
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14096431 - 03/10/11 05:31 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

> seriously, if welfare is paying out $10k per houshold in benefits, where's the other $90k going?

The union protected bureaucrats that administer the welfare system, most likely.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: DieCommie]
    #14096505 - 03/10/11 06:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I would be down to divert money from the police to subsidized health care. :thumbup: Health care saves lives, the police destroy them.


Both do both, and we need both. IMO, both health care professionals and law enforcement officials are highly over-paid. I often read in my newspaper about the local police departments receiving more and more money from the city/county, much of which goes to giving officers raises to their already generous government salaries; the cost of healthcare keeps rising, and for many years, U.S. health care expenditures have been growing above the overall rate of inflation in the economy.

I'm not so sure if diverting money from police to healthcare would be a good idea; IMO, police serve a more important function for society than healthcare does. It's not too unlikely for a person to live their whole life without needing any major medical treatment, but without police, the chances of a person being physically harmed by another person are much higher than with police. Without police, society would crumble and there wouldn't even be any major healthcare institutions, their very existence depends on police.


I think that, instead of diverting money from the police to health care, that money should be used to fund measures whose purpose is to improve the quality of the police force. There are already government funded health care programs (e.g. MediCare), not to mention free clinics that people can turn to if they cannot afford to pay for their own healthcare, there's no need to use more taxpayer money to pay for healthcare if it can be spent in more beneficial ways.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: d33p]
    #14096549 - 03/10/11 07:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Also, the wild west was not nearly as violent in comparison to today as portrayed by the media. The "wild west" and "effective modern police with amazing CSI" are the myths.


Do you even know who Wyatt Earp was? Or anything else about the Wild West for that matter?

The CSI-type police oiffcers are real, they're just not the kind that you see in those black-&-white cop cars with the red/blue sirens; they're detectives, their job isn't to patrol the city and fight petty street crime, so there's no need for them drive high-profile vehicles like cop cars.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14097011 - 03/10/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
maybe you should read that again because it the average welfare recipient is drawing $20k it's double what I stated



I assume that was including expenditures not just the money.
Like I said, where did you get the statistics that say welfare is 500bn and there's 50mill on welfare?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,999
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14097087 - 03/10/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What a great example, great question :thumbup:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14097783 - 03/10/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
maybe you should read that again because it the average welfare recipient is drawing $20k it's double what I stated



I assume that was including expenditures not just the money.




so it takes $90k to put $10k in the hands of the people that need help?



Quote:

Like I said, where did you get the statistics that say welfare is 500bn and there's 50mill on welfare?




I low balled the numbers it's $749bn in these social programs but I used the welfare numbers only
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_budget_2010_4.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-08-30-1Asafetynet30_ST_N.htm

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14098278 - 03/10/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Those statistics are 2 years apart. You are getting the numbers for amount of people on government assistance from the beginning of the recession '08 and the expenditure data from '10. If the economy was steadily moving this wouldn't be bad, but it basically spent the span shooting down the crapper with increasing unemployment and impoverishment. Further I am pretty suspicious the USA today isn't reporting the same or all of the programs listed in the budget you cited. In reality it is likely that much more than 50mill Americans receive all of those programs.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14098304 - 03/10/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There is no fucking way that a two year difference is in any way meaningful.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14099098 - 03/10/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Those statistics are 2 years apart. You are getting the numbers for amount of people on government assistance from the beginning of the recession '08 and the expenditure data from '10.




here's the 2008 numbers on welfare spending

$386 billion (+5.2%) - Medicare
$209 billion (+5.6%) - Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
$324 billion (+1.8%) - Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending

want me to add in the other $600 billion for SSI?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14099113 - 03/10/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is no fucking way that a two year difference is in any way meaningful.





it is really... they made welfare cuts while the number of recipients has increased

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14099853 - 03/10/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It still isn't meaningful in terms of the orders of magnitude seemingly in dispute.

Unemployment isn't welfare and neither is Soc sec.  If you haven't worked you don't get any.  Mostly.  But that's irrelevant, I'm with you, the level of government dependency is atrocious enough that I don't think it needs to be exaggerated.


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Offlinedshow
Nomad
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Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 5,255
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14100956 - 03/10/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)




Buy yours today!

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