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OfflineDevlish2
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: PreparationH]
    #14098216 - 03/10/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Maybe it will be to them maybe it won't.  I'd put my bets on they don't.




Even I know war is stupid, I'm hoping they would know that too.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: Devlish2]
    #14098243 - 03/10/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

if they can travel to our planet it won't be a war lol that's a thing of the movies, a resistance occurs.  if they wanted to kill us we'd probably just die before we even knew a threat was coming.

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OfflineF0SS1L
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: PreparationH]
    #14098254 - 03/10/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If they're so super intelligent and benevolent that they don't want to destroy us, then why haven't they bothered to help us? Don't give me this "they don't want to interfere" crap. Humans are clearly an intelligent, but immature species on a one way track to destruction. There's already widespread starvation, inequality, poverty, and a drain on our resources. At what point does interfering seem like a good idea? And since humanity is actively looking for alien life, what do they have to gain by staying hidden from us?

I'm not doubting that life exists out there somewhere, but some of the shit I see on this forum seriously makes me question a person's critical thinking skills. It's like a religion, but instead of some fairy tales instead you base your theories on equally absurd evidence like crop circles. Super intelligent, benevolent, master of interstellar travel and unimaginable technological prowess. We may as well be talking about god.


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Offlinefall
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: Devlish2]
    #14098267 - 03/10/11 02:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I bet they'd be smart enough to use youtube if they wanted to contact us without putting themselves at risk.  You seriously think our government could really hold back an intergalactic species?  They can travel thousands of lightyears in a livable timespan, and people speculate they'd be afraid of our physical missiles.
Please.
I like to think they're out there, but I won't really 'know' until I meet one.  Doesn't mean I want a dead body, there are many other ways to confirm existence... like dialog between two intelligent beings.  Which to my knowledge hasn't happened on a scale that is relevant to me, so I wait for now.

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Offlineherschburger
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: PreparationH]
    #14098281 - 03/10/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

surely it is a possibility, that they could come here and just wipe us out. i have a different view of them though.

my view on them ets:
remember men in black? at the end, it scopes out of the universe and it is just one universe and an alien scoops it up. well what if the aliens are here, and they are watching us, waiting for us. waiting for us to realize. as a whole. they couldn't just pick a few to reveal themselves to, all's enough people in certain positions have to do is say they are "crazy" and boom all social respect for said individual is lost. either we all move on to intergalactic peace or we fail before we reach the intellectual capability of living with aliens. which most individuals aren't ready for yet, they can barely stand their own kind. i.e race, religion, sexuality.

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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098305 - 03/10/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Maybe some of the modern band wagon flimsy stories could be that or sleep paralysis but the best accounts out there have happened while the person is awake and up and about.  In cases such as Travis Walton and Barney and Betty Hill there were multiple witnesses and they were in cars driving around when it happened.  Then theres the fact of how people in Africa - in communities with no TV have reported the exact same type of flying saucer and little gray dudes with big eyes getting out. 

If you study the the subject in depth IMO theres not many conclusions you can really come to other than its as real as anything else in this world.




Regarding those cases you mentioned I'm familiar with Barney and Betty Hill- isn't mass hysteria a more plausible explanation?  In Fort worth in 2009 thirty some people went to the hospital complaining of myriad symptoms whenthey - mistakenly- thought they'd been exposed to carbon monoxide. They weren't feigning, they genuinely thought they had been poisoned, which illustrates the power of suggestion and the notorious unreliability of eyewitnesses. 

If aliens are here, where are their ships? Produce a piece of extraterrestrial technology, or an artifact that can be held and rigorously examined, and I'll consider the idea of aliens among us to have merit. Stonehenge and the pyramids need not apply. 

Considering the majority of people in this world think some dude on a cloud is reading their thoughts and keeping a tally of how frequently they masturbate, the eyewitness accounts of a few nice, honest looking people is far from convincing evidence.  People sent to prison for long periods on strong eyewitness testimony are exhonerated by DNA all the time.  I, for one, trust the DNA over malleable human memory. So, apparently, do the courts.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: F0SS1L]
    #14098308 - 03/10/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

F0SS1L said:
If they're so super intelligent and benevolent that they don't want to destroy us, then why haven't they bothered to help us? Don't give me this "they don't want to interfere" crap.




When did you last bother to help out a bunch of chimps in the bush?  Or an ant hill near you house?

Besides, this is all backwards thought.  Reality isn't about what you think it should be.  Its about what we are being presented with - what we can perceive.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: the spiral]
    #14098337 - 03/10/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the spiral said:
Regarding those cases you mentioned I'm familiar with Barney and Betty Hill- isn't mass hysteric a more plausible explanation?




Nope.

Mass hysteria doesn't account for their missing time or the damage to Betties clothing that showed she had been in a struggle or the PTSD that her husband suffered as result of the event or the marks found on their car.

And it doesn't account for how a group of people in Africa with no access to western view of the phenomena also see the exact same type of craft and beings as the Hills and Travis Walton did.

In waltons case, walton was physically missing from the earth - the police looked for him with tracker dogs.  One of the witnesses to his abduction by UFO was suspected of his murder but maintained his story.  The other witnesses all passed lie detector tests as did Travis on his return days later.

Doesn't fit the bill of mass hysteria.  Thats the problem with abduction phenomena it has all the hallmarks of being real - which is why its never been successfully explained.

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OfflineF0SS1L
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098368 - 03/10/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
When did you last bother to help out a bunch of chimps in the bush?  Or an ant hill near you house?

Besides, this is all backwards thought.  Reality isn't about what you think it should be.  Its about what we are being presented with - what we can perceive.





Seeing as how no chimps live in Ohio, never. But if I found a wounded one in my back yard, I may be spurred into action (assuming I could get close enough to help without it resisting or attacking me). Same reason I went looking for the owners of a lost dog when I found it on my street. Ants aren't even a valid comparison to either of those, nor do I think I could be of much assistance to an ant hill.


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That's me on the street with a violin under my chin. Playing with a grin, singing gibberish.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: F0SS1L]
    #14098404 - 03/10/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly and I doubt an alien could be of much assistance to us.

Alien: I want to study you.
Human: I want your technology so I can come into space and shoot you.

theres a conflict of interests.

How exactly did you think they could help us?

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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098418 - 03/10/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Exactly and I doubt an alien could be of much assistance to us.

Alien: I want to study you.
Human: I want your technology so I can come into space and shoot you.

theres a conflict of interests.

How exactly did you think they could help us?




If there was technology, for example, that would solve all of our energy needs, or food needs, why would we go to war with them? Don't wars happen due to conflict of interest? If we had the same interests, and everyone was able to live happily, I seriously doubt we would try and destroy them.


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...

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OfflineF0SS1L
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098440 - 03/10/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Relieving the world of its dependence on fossil fuels would not give us the means to travel through space and destroy a race who's planet we cannot even pinpoint. It would certainly facilitate our ability to travel long distances, but it wouldn't suddenly allow us to travel between solar systems and pillage alien planets.


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That's me on the street with a violin under my chin. Playing with a grin, singing gibberish.

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InvisibleSet
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14098480 - 03/10/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The fact that aliens haven't revealed themselves to humans on Earth to fuck with our faggy beliefs and cause chaos leads me to believe that aliens don't have a sense of humor.


Disappointing.


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    classic LOVELINE

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thoight on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: F0SS1L]
    #14098489 - 03/10/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

It would also give someone the means to destroy the entire planet.  I think a natural progression is more sensible.

Besides, what makes you think that we don't already have the means to end fossil fuels?  I believe we do.  The game being played here is for profit and control.  That means the established power brokers will want to and do withhold alternative methods. 

The system itself being a profit driven system results in us choosing not to use the eco friendly alternatives - tidal, river, solar, wind and geo thermal could power the world but who is going to pay to setup a free energy source?

Edited by nice1 (03/10/11 03:10 PM)

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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098633 - 03/10/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Quote:

the spiral said:

And it doesn't account for how a group of people in Africa with no access to western view of the phenomena also see the exact same type of craft and beings as the Hills and Travis Walton did.









That's sort of like saying that universal grammar means the aliens taught everyone on Earth how to speak. Whether in Kenya or France, the people there are still living human lives with many similar or identical human experiences - and therefore, possessing similar archetypes.  Similar aesthetics are seen across ancient human cultures;  one finds worship of very similar gods in mythologies across the globe, and often very similar myths.  Plus, these Africans had surely seen airplanes before in their skies. That they would describe a familiar ufo design was inevitable when you also consider the huge variety of types people have described. Flying saucers, flying triangles, other platonic solid shapes, and balls of light are particularly popular examples that come to mind - designs that all adhere to a suspiciously human aesthetic of what a spaceship "should" look like.  I would be more surprised if their description DID NOT resemble or match those descriptions of "sightings" from elsewhere.

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: the spiral]
    #14098736 - 03/10/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think they would be as similar as they are though and we have to take into consideration the whole picture of what is happening.

If it is an archetype then then you are basically stating that all people are hallucinating the same thing.  Even people driving are having the exact same group archetype hallucination and its happening all over the world to groups of people who appear to otherwise be perfectly normal and not hallucination prone?

Seems more unlikely than aliens visiting us :crazy:

You can accept it at face value or make up a theories based on a load of assumptions about common archetypes and mass hallucination spontaneously happening.

Just doesn't seem logical because not even sure the archetype theory is real and you have to couple it with group hallucination.  Just seems more unlikely that it being a real event.

I can prove that aliens exist and fly to other planets because WE are those aliens and we send our men / UFOs to other planets.  I can't prove spontaneous multiple group hallucination of archetypes though :tongue:

Edited by nice1 (03/10/11 03:51 PM)

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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098775 - 03/10/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

From Wikipedia:
Quote:

An archetype (pronounced /ˈɑrkɪtaɪp/) is an original model of a person, ideal example, or a prototype upon which others are copied, patterned, or emulated; a symbol universally recognized by all. In psychology, an archetype is a model of a person, personality, or behavior.




I don't quite follow the point about archetypes implying that everybody in the world is sharing a hallucination...

...even though we are. But that's for the philosophy forum.

Are you really saying that the fact that all the "evidence" we have for ET visiting are eyewitness accounts,and nothing tangible, doesn't instill some doubt?

Edited by the spiral (03/10/11 03:56 PM)

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Offlinenice1
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: the spiral]
    #14098826 - 03/10/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think every culture on earth has the archetype of flying disc with little grey men with big eyes or understand how they would manifest into these stories or manifest the physical results.

Such a thing would have to be learned IMO which is why I used the africa incident as an example because its unlikely to of been learned there.  I mean every culture has its folklore but its incredibly varied suggesting to me that the archetype idea can't be used in this case IMO and just seems unlogical because there all the other factors that it doesn't explain as well.

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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098878 - 03/10/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think it is very possible our human ancestors evolved into highly intelligent beings and went off to live seperate lives from the rest of us.
Where exactly? Who knows.

I mean, think about it, Earth has been around for ~4.5 BILLION years.
We have made some dramatic advances in every field in, what, just a few hundred years?

More and more evidence has been found that intelligent humans have been roaming the Earth for much longer than we are being taught. That in itself is a HUGE deal.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_historia_humanidad_2.htm

It is VERY possible and VERY likely that past civilizations evolved into beings more advanced than us.


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: A thought on why ETs would ever come here in the first place. [Re: nice1]
    #14098897 - 03/10/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not saying it's not possible, just that there is not any objective evidence to confirm it.  The types of improbabilities you brought up and I've done my best to offer explanations for, one cannot reasonably argue, are more probably due to the influence of aliens than more "Earthly" possibilities that don't involve warp drive and a voyeuristic species of aliens.

Maybe there really are peeping-tom cow-slaughtering crop-pattern-making voyeur aliens fucking with our collective heads. It simply doesn't at this point seem very probable.

Edit: I think if humans had become a space faring species sometime long ago there would be an archaeological record of it. Cool idea, though. The smart ones left us all behind in this zoo and the adolescents get off on screwing with the stupid Earthlings for laughs when they get stoned.  Or maybe that's what really happened to all the Neanderthals and their bigger brains !

Edited by the spiral (03/10/11 04:23 PM)

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