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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed?
    #14097097 - 03/10/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What is your take on this shroomery?

I have not had the time to delve into politics at all for the past couple months
so when I saw this it kind of caught me off guard.



Coming to a state near you?

Is all of this even true?


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Offlinej0nnyb0y05
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts] * 2
    #14097130 - 03/10/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just fucking WOW


What the FUCK is going on in this country.


--------------------
.....Healing Of People Everywhere.....



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InvisibleDunno
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Registered: 01/30/10 Happy 14th Shroomiversary!
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097132 - 03/10/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

damn kid...


--------------------
I'm like a wild animal in the corner
Waiting for the break of dawn
Trying to get through the night
Just a man with the will to survive



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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: j0nnyb0y05]
    #14097191 - 03/10/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

j0nnyb0y05 said:
Just fucking WOW


What the FUCK is going on in this country.




This was similar to my reaction. Followed by a feeling of hopelessness.

Gotta stay positive.


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Offlinebiff
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097253 - 03/10/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I was there in that footage at the capital there and at both rallies. I just went down there to get some pictures not really caring. I walked away fucking shocked and feeling helpless. It boggles my fucking mind what these people are doing and getting away with. I'd say vote but it's not gonna matter anymore soon because they can just kick out elected officials.

In Michigan particularly we have been suffering from high unemployment for the past decade. I can only imagine what's going to happen if these bills pass and if Snyder keeps this shit up.

It's gonna get ugly up in the mitten.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097268 - 03/10/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

While agree the legislation she's talking about are fucking crazy.  I think she's just as fucking crazy.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: biff] * 1
    #14097273 - 03/10/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biff said:
In Michigan particularly we have been suffering from high unemployment for the past decade. I can only imagine what's going to happen if these bills pass and if Snyder keeps this shit up.




Hrm.  High unemployment 'eh?  Kinda like businesses don't want to operate there?

I wonder why that guy's giving $1,800,000,000 to businesses in the form of tax breaks?  Mayhaps to incentivize businesses to set up there, and - perhaps - provide some jobs?

lolololol.  clueless


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097274 - 03/10/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
While agree the legislation she's talking about are fucking crazy.  I think she's just as fucking crazy.




Yeah she seems like she is just insane :lol:

Anyways I asked if this were even true. If its not please elaborate.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097275 - 03/10/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Democracy: great.

The masses:  stupid.



An impasse?  Nah.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097278 - 03/10/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Democracy: great.

The masses:  stupid.



An impasse?  Nah.




lol wtf??


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097286 - 03/10/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Anyways I asked if this were even true. If its not please elaborate.



I live in VA :shrug:  beats the hell out of me.  But as I just posted a few spots above --- the Michigan peopel are complaining about high unemployment and then scolding the governor for trying to brings jobs into the state by incentivizing businesses via tax breaks (tax breaks are given by states all over hte country.  its their main bargaining chip to get companies to set up shop there.  If Michigan doens't want to give 'em, their neighbor will.  And then their neighbor will get the jobs :shrug:  Which problem do you want to complain about?  Tax breaks to companies? or unemployment?    Pick one)


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097287 - 03/10/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why are you quotin every one of my posts except the one that actually addressed the content of the video and teh complaints of michigan's people?:

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

biff said:
In Michigan particularly we have been suffering from high unemployment for the past decade. I can only imagine what's going to happen if these bills pass and if Snyder keeps this shit up.




Hrm.  High unemployment 'eh?  Kinda like businesses don't want to operate there?

I wonder why that guy's giving $1,800,000,000 to businesses in the form of tax breaks?  Mayhaps to incentivize businesses to set up there, and - perhaps - provide some jobs?

lolololol.  clueless




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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097293 - 03/10/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Anyways I asked if this were even true. If its not please elaborate.



I live in VA :shrug:  beats the hell out of me.  But as I just posted a few spots above --- the Michigan peopel are complaining about high unemployment and then scolding the governor for trying to brings jobs into the state by incentivizing businesses via tax breaks (tax breaks are given by states all over hte country.  its their main bargaining chip to get companies to set up shop there.  If Michigan doens't want to give 'em, their neighbor will.  And then their neighbor will get the jobs :shrug:  Which problem do you want to complain about?  Tax breaks to companies? or unemployment?    Pick one)




Thats a bullshit argument. Besides that there was alot more going on in that video
besides unemployment and tax breaks. Im off to work.


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Offlinebiff
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097298 - 03/10/11 11:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I never understood defending tax breaks for giant corporations. So if you give out tax breaks they are going to hire more people, give raises and invest in new business? That didn't work with Reagan or either Bush. All that happens is investors make more money and CEO's get nice bonuses.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts] * 2
    #14097308 - 03/10/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Thats a bullshit argument. Besides that there was alot more going on in that video
besides unemployment and tax breaks. Im off to work.



Yeah its bullshit!  Fuck the man!

Here's what I said about your video, the one you're desperate to get peopel to talk about:
Quote:

While agree the legislation she's talking about are fucking crazy.  I think she's just as fucking crazy.





See?  I agreed with you.  Stop being so thickheaded.  You're just like the rest of 'em.  Pissed off at ideas and unwilling to put any thought behind it. USE YOUR BRAIN.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #14097337 - 03/10/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Rome is burning.


--------------------


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14097370 - 03/10/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biff said:
I never understood defending tax breaks for giant corporations. So if you give out tax breaks they are going to hire more people, give raises and invest in new business? That didn't work with Reagan or either Bush. All that happens is investors make more money and CEO's get nice bonuses.



Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Thats a bullshit argument. Besides that there was alot more going on in that video
besides unemployment and tax breaks. Im off to work.



Yeah its bullshit!  Fuck the man!

Here's what I said about your video, the one you're desperate to get peopel to talk about:
Quote:

While agree the legislation she's talking about are fucking crazy.  I think she's just as fucking crazy.





See?  I agreed with you.  Stop being so thickheaded.  You're just like the rest of 'em.  Pissed off at ideas and unwilling to put any thought behind it. USE YOUR BRAIN.






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Offlinetripp23
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097426 - 03/10/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:shitfan:


--------------------
Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!



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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14097431 - 03/10/11 12:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:shrug:

If tax breaks don't incentivize corporations, tell me where all the credit card companies are based and why.

Or, just show me some proof that it simply pads the pockets of CEOs and fails to create jobs.


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Offlinesheldogg5
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14098223 - 03/10/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ahhh yes let's take money from the people have no money and give it to people with more money than they know what to do with.... genius!!

It's time to riot like an Egyptian


--------------------
everything i post is entirely fictional
"and then one day you find 10 years have got behind you no one told you when to run...you missed the starting gun"

"for long you live and high you fly, but only if you ride the tide, balanced on the biggest wave you race towards an early grave"


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: sheldogg5]
    #14098276 - 03/10/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sheldogg5 said:
ahhh yes let's take money from the people have no money and give it to people with more money than they know what to do with.... genius!!

It's time to riot like an Egyptian






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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: biff]
    #14098524 - 03/10/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biff said:
I was there in that footage at the capital there and at both rallies. I just went down there to get some pictures not really caring. I walked away fucking shocked and feeling helpless. It boggles my fucking mind what these people are doing and getting away with. I'd say vote but it's not gonna matter anymore soon because they can just kick out elected officials.






this is not at all true... people need to stop watching the news and start
paying attention to politics, the press gets everyone wound up over
fabrications, MSNBC just ran a story claiming there was a bill introduced
here in Ga that would make it a crime of murder to have a miscarriage, that
women could face the death penalty for it... complete bullshit just like all
this crap... READ THE BILLS

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14097921#14097921


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: biff]
    #14098553 - 03/10/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biff said:
I never understood defending tax breaks for giant corporations. So if you give out tax breaks they are going to hire more people, give raises and invest in new business? That didn't work with Reagan or either Bush. All that happens is investors make more money and CEO's get nice bonuses.





currently the US taxes corporations far more than any other nation, it's part
of the reason shell corps and multinationals have become what they are, we
tax corps at 35%, china only taxes them at 25% and much of the world is half
that, can you guess why we have problems with unemployment, because it's
cheaper for Microsoft to move to Dubai than it is for them to remain in the US

so here you propose raising taxes on those already heavily taxed, what's
going to happen then, think they'll all move back to the US out of patriotism?


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OfflineNymphaea
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14098681 - 03/10/11 03:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

biff said:
I never understood defending tax breaks for giant corporations. So if you give out tax breaks they are going to hire more people, give raises and invest in new business? That didn't work with Reagan or either Bush. All that happens is investors make more money and CEO's get nice bonuses.





currently the US taxes corporations far more than any other nation, it's part
of the reason shell corps and multinationals have become what they are, we
tax corps at 35%, china only taxes them at 25% and much of the world is half
that, can you guess why we have problems with unemployment, because it's
cheaper for Microsoft to move to Dubai than it is for them to remain in the US

so here you propose raising taxes on those already heavily taxed, what's
going to happen then, think they'll all move back to the US out of patriotism?




Yea, exactly.

I'm a libertarian.

I'm also a Michigander.

I also kind of think that the media and the "current events" of the world kind of control the ideals of the masses.  (Current events which may or may not actually be orchestrated by the CIA). 

A crises happens (orchestrated or not), everyone wants the government to do something about it, they gain more power  because we deem it necessary.  Politics is kind of just a big distraction, the rich still get richer, and the poor still get poorer no matter who is in office.

The rich are smart, and the elite know a lot of things the rest of us don't.  They can coordinate the markets.  I feel like America is being looted of all its so called "wealth."

Businesses use the media and the government uses the media and in the end both are just going to end up with more of you $.

The price of admission into America is your taxes which get to be used to fund wars so that we can get more money.  But its ok, they are keeping you "safe."  Everyone feels comfortable here because they are spoon fed mcdonalds and cable TV so there is no need to question.


--------------------
:huxleyfacepalm:


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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14098701 - 03/10/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

biff said:
In Michigan particularly we have been suffering from high unemployment for the past decade. I can only imagine what's going to happen if these bills pass and if Snyder keeps this shit up.




Hrm.  High unemployment 'eh?  Kinda like businesses don't want to operate there?

I wonder why that guy's giving $1,800,000,000 to businesses in the form of tax breaks?  Mayhaps to incentivize businesses to set up there, and - perhaps - provide some jobs?

lolololol.  clueless





THIS! THIS THIS


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Anthony917]
    #14098717 - 03/10/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^ glad to see some people undersatnd whats going on :thumbup:


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14099445 - 03/10/11 05:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

why dont they impeach his ass? wtf? like i know the media is liberal as fuck so they probably exaggerated a tiny bit but wtf? Why dont they fucking kill the guy??!


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099517 - 03/10/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

This shit is getting out of control really fast.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14099625 - 03/10/11 06:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099653 - 03/10/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The education system is tragically out of date is what this comes down to. We're educating people for a job market that doesn't exist anymore.

What I think we need to do is make computer science a major focus from day one. Kindergarten onward. That's where the money is. We could take over the world again if we got on top of this and produced a generation not of magical-thinking tech consumers but of well-informed tech savants.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14099657 - 03/10/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

that is honestly a good idea


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14099680 - 03/10/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

biff said:
In Michigan particularly we have been suffering from high unemployment for the past decade. I can only imagine what's going to happen if these bills pass and if Snyder keeps this shit up.




Hrm.  High unemployment 'eh?  Kinda like businesses don't want to operate there?

I wonder why that guy's giving $1,800,000,000 to businesses in the form of tax breaks?  Mayhaps to incentivize businesses to set up there, and - perhaps - provide some jobs?

lolololol.  clueless



When are you going to realize that these bills being passed have nothing to do with jobs or budget deficits? Look at WI, they took all the fiscal stuff out and passed the union busting parts. If this was about the budget, why did they not give a shit about the budget part of the bill? The Republicans even stated that it was to get back at Obama by destroying his support.

It truly boggles my mind that some people on here will agree that the govt is corrupt but think that corporations are saintly.


--------------------


Edited by learningtofly (03/10/11 06:21 PM)


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099685 - 03/10/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That's true. The first two years of college need to be tacked on to high school and required for all because the only industry left that you just need a high school diploma for is the service industry, and even they prefer technical school graduates. Also, their industry is going to be phased out in the near future, too.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099712 - 03/10/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
why dont they impeach his ass?





this does not mean what you think it means, it's just part of a
process, clinton was impeached and remained in office


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099720 - 03/10/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.





it's not just mechanization, but it is a global issue, the USs #1 export for the last 15 years has been jobs


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14099752 - 03/10/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
why dont they impeach his ass?





this does not mean what you think it means, it's just part of a
process, clinton was impeached and remained in office





but there must be some clause stating if the people call to vote and an overwhelming majority wants him out he can be kicked out?!


This is what we have the second amendment for! "to, if nothing else, defend onesself against a tyrannous government


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14099784 - 03/10/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

We just absorbed a lot of nations' unemployment because we could for awhile. Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.

It's reverse outsourcing, and honestly it's just as detestable when you're thinking about global problems.

Plus, tax breaks won't solve the issue that people who live in the US need to be paid a lot more than people in third world countries just to survive.

And even though unemployment has many varied causes, mechanization is the only one that will slowly but surely lead to the end of labor for income as we know it.

I just hope we have the good sense to start changing our society before people are starving in the streets.

But considering all the tent cities opening up around the country...we're a bit late for that.

Also, since the economy's been in the shitter for two years, the unemployment numbers the government's feeding us is wrong. They count unemployment as the number of people applying for new jobless benefits, even though after two years those benefits expire and the person still has no job.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099803 - 03/10/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
why dont they impeach his ass?





this does not mean what you think it means, it's just part of a
process, clinton was impeached and remained in office





but there must be some clause stating if the people call to vote and an overwhelming majority wants him out he can be kicked out?!


This is what we have the second amendment for! "to, if nothing else, defend onesself against a tyrannous government




I know in California this is how they got rid of Grey Davis and brought in the Governator. A popular referendum called for a "re-election" where Davis had to run against whoever the fuck else felt like running (actors, porn moguls, porn stars, etc.).

I don't know if Michigan has that option available to its citizens, though. California's weird in a lot of ways.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (03/10/11 06:47 PM)


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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14099847 - 03/10/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

corporate tax breaks work on the state level by making that state more appealing to businesses
therefore more jobs move to that state.

its completely different on the federal level. trickle down economics is bullshit if yo ask me
but states can defiantly create jobs by lowering corporate taxes.


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #14099865 - 03/10/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
corporate tax breaks work on the state level by making that state more appealing to businesses
therefore more jobs move to that state.

its completely different on the federal level. trickle down economics is bullshit if yo ask me
but states can defiantly create jobs by lowering corporate taxes.




If a job moves to that state, it has to move from another state. It only affects new businesses opening up, and the VAST majority of new businesses are very small operations.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099880 - 03/10/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.





we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and frankle, what to I care if some guy in india doesnt have a job, I too have kids to feed and unlike most, I cant qualify for food stamps

are you aware that there's 30 million out of work in the US, there's also 27
million illegal aliens in the US, Mexico has a 5% unemployment rate and half
of our auto manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, etc... should we have just
handed the automakers billions so they could close more plants in the US and
send them to mexico? you think those high taxes had anything to do with
them leaving? how about the fact that they can send the goods back to the
US and not be taxed

yeah... we should keep giving all the jobs to other nations, that way we
can all live on welfare and never have to work again


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #14099906 - 03/10/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
why dont they impeach his ass?





this does not mean what you think it means, it's just part of a
process, clinton was impeached and remained in office





but there must be some clause stating if the people call to vote and an overwhelming majority wants him out he can be kicked out?!


This is what we have the second amendment for! "to, if nothing else, defend onesself against a tyrannous government



You can have a recall election but I believe that the person has to be in office for at least a year.


--------------------


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OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14099909 - 03/10/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

do you think the Governer of Michigan gives two shits about the people in other states losing jobs?

NO.
she is elected ONLY by the people of Michigan.
she wont care what you think unless your registered to vote in Michigan or want to make a significant campaign contribution.
It doesn't just affect new and small businesses
large corporations want tax breaks and will move there if it saves them money.


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14099948 - 03/10/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.





we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and frankle, what to I care if some guy in india doesnt have a job, I too have kids to feed and unlike most, I cant qualify for food stamps

are you aware that there's 30 million out of work in the US, there's also 27
million illegal aliens in the US, Mexico has a 5% unemployment rate and half
of our auto manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, etc... should we have just
handed the automakers billions so they could close more plants in the US and
send them to mexico? you think those high taxes had anything to do with
them leaving? how about the fact that they can send the goods back to the
US and not be taxed

yeah... we should keep giving all the jobs to other nations, that way we
can all live on welfare and never have to work again




Whatever, Pris. I'm just saying that these are global problems, and just hoping corporations move back doesn't create jobs, it just moves them.

New idea. Raise tariffs on goods (and services?) that can and should be made/performed in the US, lower corporate taxes. Net impact on budget: 0. Yet, higher performance as far as providing incentive for companies to come back. If the corporations just try to hike up the prices instead of moving, people will probably stop buying their shit.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14100015 - 03/10/11 07:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
corporate tax breaks work on the state level by making that state more appealing to businesses
therefore more jobs move to that state.

its completely different on the federal level. trickle down economics is bullshit if yo ask me
but states can defiantly create jobs by lowering corporate taxes.




If a job moves to that state, it has to move from another state. It only affects new businesses opening up, and the VAST majority of new businesses are very small operations.





small companies are the #1 employer in the nation


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14100250 - 03/10/11 08:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Whatever, Pris. I'm just saying that these are global problems, and just hoping corporations move back doesn't create jobs, it just moves them.




it's primarily a national problem, at least for the US, if a company packs
up and goes to china, that's more jobs for china and fewer for us and no
one is hoping they'll move back here because that's not happening, but if
we start imposing tarrifs on all these goods coming into this country then
that's more revenue in the coffers, if we stop bailing out the
corporations that are too big to fail yet they're failing, they fold and
it makes room for someone else to take their place

banks got funds to issue loans to consumers in order to stimulate the
economy, they took the cash and dumped it into investments instead and
used the interest to repay the bailout funds, that did dick for the
economy either on the national or global scale, it certainly didnt allow
new businesses to start and create those new jobs

a few companies got stimulus funds to develop green energy, many of those
companies outsourced the work to china leaving the chinese with permanent
jobs and americans with short term temporary jobs doing installation

so now we have a global problem, only the rest of the globe isnt
suffering, they're profiting from the american dollar that was supposed to
aid the American people, the list goes on and on and the ones paying the
price is us, if the large corps leave the country there will be no
corporate taxes because all their domestic holding will be reporting
losses and asking for more bailouts... there's been 3 bailout bills so far
Quote:

New idea. Raise tariffs on goods (and services?) that can and should be made/performed in the US, lower corporate taxes. Net impact on budget: 0.




care to back that up? because when the automakers leave and the jobs go
with them that's less income tax as well as the corporate taxes, GM
reported record losses in the US and thus paid no taxes prior to the bail
outs yet the same corporation was reporting record sales in all other
markets other than germany, why didnt GM global support GM domestic

BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT A GLOBAL ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO RAPING THE TAX PAYER

Quote:

Yet, higher performance as far as providing incentive for companies to come back.





dont need them back, we need to start imposing tariffs on import goods
even from those companies, we need to knock off this free trade and
globalization bullshit because we're the only ones it's not free for, all
our exports are taxed and that keeps us from competing in that global
market yet the cheap chinese and mexican junk comes in tax free preventing
US corporations from competing in the domestic market

americans have lost faith in our manufacturing and banking, this is why
they've failed, if we have no faith in GM then why would we buy their
products, the chevy volt is a prime example of how government 'stimulated'
sales for a company we dont want to buy from, they produced a product that
can drive for an hour and has to be charged for 7 hours before it can go
another hour, yet the government insists this is the wave of the future
that wave sells a whopping 300 cars a month nationwide, a single
dealership sells 300 cars a month


dodge took a bailout in the late 70s, they went bankrupt, closed their
doors and government propped them up, the public wasnt buying the cars,
the government had to in order to show they were succeeding, it's the same
shit all over again and it's still a problem in this nation because
zimbabwe is unaffected, same with sweden, india and russia


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14100307 - 03/10/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the biggest problem with America right now is that people are just too fucking distracted to participate in politics. We don't take any of what we hear about elections or budgets seriously anymore. It's gone completely beyond our comprehension when we regularly hear about the government flushing trillions of dollars they don't have down the toilet. None of it makes sense anymore. The credibility is completely gone, like dust in the wind.

It tends to blind us to how much power we actually DO have in the democracy that we've held onto, because there really is still a lot left. We are suffering from vertigo. This is caused by primarily paying attention to federal politics. We live in local political systems, and those local political systems remain quite responsive to our demands.

We've just been teased out of faith in our privilege to make any demands at all.

Pretty fucked.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100325 - 03/10/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I think the biggest problem with America right now is that people are just too fucking distracted to participate in politics. We don't take any of what we hear about elections or budgets seriously anymore. It's gone completely beyond our comprehension when we regularly hear about the government flushing trillions of dollars they don't have down the toilet. None of it makes sense anymore. The credibility is completely gone, like dust in the wind.

It tends to blind us to how much power we actually DO have in the democracy that we've held onto, because there really is still a lot left. We just get serious vertigo by looking at the national news and feel disempowered.




It does not help that all the mainstream media will air is shit about

Islamiphobia and bullshit about charlie sheen and Libya. Libya is only a concern for
us because of its oil. You think the US gives a shit about the things going on in
the Ivory Coast and other places.

Whats true whats false??


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100341 - 03/10/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time (or consensus) for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100344 - 03/10/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

many that follow politics are doing no more than listening to the news, the
news rarely reports accurately, they play games to incite the public on the
issues they wanna push, our popularity contest has become more of one every
election... luckily more people are getting the hint, READ THE FRIGGIN BILLS
and they start taking a more appropriate action with their congressmen


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100352 - 03/10/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100361 - 03/10/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?





that video you posted is crap, it's a liberal shill trying to work up
liberals against the republicans, the problem isnt either or, it's both

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14100362 - 03/10/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?




Well, do more research dude. I didn't even see that you were from Michigan. Figure out how much of what Maddow said was truth and how much was exaggeration. Read the bill. Understand its history. Understand the motives of the belligerents involved in this legislation, and then exercise your God-given rights.

If it comes down to protesting like an Egyptian, I will be in full support. :ninja:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14100369 - 03/10/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?




Well, do more research dude. I didn't even see that you were from Michigan. Figure out how much of what Maddow said was truth and how much was exaggeration. Read the bill. Understand its history. Understand the motives of the belligerents involved in this legislation, and then exercise your God-given rights.

If it comes down to protesting like an Egyptian, I will be in full support. :ninja:




In progress


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OfflineAnthony917
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14102282 - 03/11/11 03:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.




You don't know what you're talking about. It isn't just huge mega corporations that are moving across seas. It's regular business, that employ PEOPLE. Not machines, manufacturing a product. It's more than that.

People move their business overseas because it's cheaper. They pay way less tax, and therefore make more money! Why would I do business in the U.S when I can move it to China and make twice as much? It's big government taxing it's people to overspend on BULLSHIT. That's the problem.


--------------------
Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14102721 - 03/11/11 07:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
None of it is true or false, it's all bullshit - a heterogeneous mixture of truth and bullshit.

Like with a cup of salt water, it would take convoluted measures to separate out the salt or the water, which we don't really have time for right now.

All I can say is that you really need to pay more attention to local politics, no matter who you are. This is where you actually have a say.




According to that video I posted we wont have say in jack shit. I mean I have not even
seen this on local news. Like wtf?





that video you posted is crap, it's a liberal shill trying to work up
liberals against the republicans, the problem isnt either or, it's both

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism




It only took three pages to be stated.  This lady is super liberal IME, I wouldn't take anything she says about Republicans too seriously.


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Offlineblujay
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Synesthetic]
    #14102742 - 03/11/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.




If you have no idea how Watson works, and what Watson is, you shouldn't use Watson as a precedent for the advancement of artificial intelligence. Unless the problem you're having with your Macbook is that you're having trouble determining every possible move and permutation of moves there-out in response to a chess master's decision and then finding the probabilities of success, Watson will not be able to help you.

Also voice recognition is nowhere near capable of handling the incredible variety of dialects, languages, and accents that humans blather out; never mind our ability to use grammar in backwards ways and still understand each other.

That said, computers/robots will probably continue to replace humans for specific tasks. So your point is solid, just not the example.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14102784 - 03/11/11 07:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I am never moving back to the United States.


--------------------


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #14102811 - 03/11/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
I am never moving back to the United States.



Good!  You'll tuk 'er j3rbs!





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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14102834 - 03/11/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Americans should have a mass exodus of biblical proportions. That would be

:awebig:


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14102840 - 03/11/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Saying we should give corporate tax breaks so they'll open up shop here is pretty selfish and stupid, because if they do magically move back and hire a bunch of people, that means you took someone else's job.





we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and frankle, what to I care if some guy in india doesnt have a job, I too have kids to feed and unlike most, I cant qualify for food stamps

are you aware that there's 30 million out of work in the US, there's also 27
million illegal aliens in the US, Mexico has a 5% unemployment rate and half
of our auto manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, etc... should we have just
handed the automakers billions so they could close more plants in the US and
send them to mexico? you think those high taxes had anything to do with
them leaving? how about the fact that they can send the goods back to the
US and not be taxed

yeah... we should keep giving all the jobs to other nations, that way we
can all live on welfare and never have to work again




Holy....fuck... I agree with pris, Those trade agreements did some serious damage to your already ailing economy


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: memes]
    #14102842 - 03/11/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
:shrug:

If tax breaks don't incentivize corporations, tell me where all the credit card companies are based and why.

Or, just show me some proof that it simply pads the pockets of CEOs and fails to create jobs.



awesome, meams... now i am ignored by heartshead, but i... don't agree with your position with him.

he is probably... not aware, nor caring about how the politics works.

as it's all bullshit and we all know it... and your position, if it is in agreeance with him, should be left at just that.

all the "ideas" you are posing are useful for no one in this PARTICULAR thread on the subject, because clearly this isn't a thread to talk about future plans or ways to solve or understand the actually moves being made, as we all know... this thread is about proving how innately bullshit US or any politics are and who it clearly favors as candidates for progress.


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Offlinesnitchelpowerz37
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14102853 - 03/11/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I think the biggest problem with America right now is that people are just too fucking distracted to participate in politics. We don't take any of what we hear about elections or budgets seriously anymore. It's gone completely beyond our comprehension when we regularly hear about the government flushing trillions of dollars they don't have down the toilet. None of it makes sense anymore. The credibility is completely gone, like dust in the wind.

It tends to blind us to how much power we actually DO have in the democracy that we've held onto, because there really is still a lot left. We are suffering from vertigo. This is caused by primarily paying attention to federal politics. We live in local political systems, and those local political systems remain quite responsive to our demands.

We've just been teased out of faith in our privilege to make any demands at all.

Pretty fucked.





THIS!

I am taking a local/state politics course in college right now and one of the first things I learned is that there is a huge voter turnout for elections in the same year of presidential elections but the elections in off years have far less interest.  And as you said, this is highly ironic as local government is much more relevant and responsive to the matters that directly matter to YOU.  For example, cities and towns can have different regulations and laws in how much they enforce drug crimes.

A lot of people complain that they are unable to change anything in this country and that they feel hopeless or whatever, but I think if everyone just used their right to actually vote and invested a sizable chunk of their time into local politics our voices would be heard.  People are trying to change things at the federal level....we have to change them locally and at the state level first to be taken seriously.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: snitchelpowerz37]
    #14105933 - 03/11/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But does it really matter at this point?? The whole show is "republican" now and
I think that was by design. Everything is by design. These fuckers have so much "money"
they can do whatever they like. And we are seeing (right in front of our eyes) that
they are alomst testing the boundaries (so to speak) or maybe they are just doing
what they KNOW they can get away with.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14107015 - 03/12/11 01:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i have and will continue to fail to understand the good reason behind taxing the poor more and giving tax breaks and bailouts to the rich, big business, and big banks.

it defies me.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #14107235 - 03/12/11 02:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Theres a method to there madness man you see they tax the poor more create even more vagrants and put even more strain on those that are struggling to make ends meet to put up business to generate revenue which depends on the lower class....oh wait. :facepalm:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: DeadHearts]
    #14107614 - 03/12/11 05:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
But does it really matter at this point?? The whole show is "republican" now and
I think that was by design. Everything is by design. These fuckers have so much "money"
they can do whatever they like. And we are seeing (right in front of our eyes) that
they are alomst testing the boundaries (so to speak) or maybe they are just doing
what they KNOW they can get away with.





incorrect, we have a republican majority in the house and a democratic
majority in the senate with a democrat president, this is called balance
because if one votes the other can shoot it down or stall it and the pres
can veto it, then it would take a 2/3 majority in th house to apss it
without an additional vote and prevent a veto, something what isnt going
to happen because republicans dont hold that kind of majority

now while you may believe this crap you are spewing it's simply untrue,
after bush the democrats held an overwhelming majority in both chambers,
this brought us the health insurance reform bill even though nearly 80% of
the public disagreed with it's passage and it gave us more cronyism
politics, now what you're hearing about 'republican/conservative' is crap
like Racheal Madcows inane rambling and outright lies, it's no different
than Rush Limbaugh, a partisan hack


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: snitchelpowerz37]
    #14107629 - 03/12/11 05:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

steezemachinee said:
  People are trying to change things at the federal level....we have to change them locally and at the state level first to be taken seriously.




we need to change things on the federal level because the feds have
overstepped their bounds, they've stripped the states of the right
to choose what laws they want that can generate revenues and allow
their citizens those freedoms, a prime example is California and the
MMJ raids, Cali says it's legal but the feds have made laws prohibiting
it and have busted people for over a decade because of it, it doesnt
matter what happens on the state level if the feds are not complying
with the wishes of the states

first step, tell the feds to fuck off and restore states rights so that
the people of the states can decide what's appropriate for them without
having to fear federal charges for something the state determines to be
legal for the people


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14107633 - 03/12/11 06:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Theres a method to there madness man you see they tax the poor more create even more vagrants and put even more strain on those that are struggling to make ends meet to put up business to generate revenue which depends on the lower class....oh wait. :facepalm:





no, 60% of america pays no income tax and infact gets money back that wasnt
paid in by them which offsets that that was paid via sales taxes, the top 2%
of the nation pays the majority of taxes in the US and most of that is at a
far higher tax rate than anyone else is paying


Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
i have and will continue to fail to understand the good reason behind taxing the poor more and giving tax breaks and bailouts to the rich, big business, and big banks.

it defies me.





how exactly are the poor being taxed more?


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14107662 - 03/12/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Theres a method to there madness man you see they tax the poor more create even more vagrants and put even more strain on those that are struggling to make ends meet to put up business to generate revenue which depends on the lower class....oh wait. :facepalm:




i used to play Sim city alot when i was younger so i feel im the most qualified person to respond to this, u tax businesses and they go out of business, you tax the people and they just brush there teef less often to make up the difference.

Really thats about what it boils down to, also businesses provide infrastructure, they full fill roles of the government for free, aka make them more powerful but at the same time make the business a tiny bit more powerful as well.

Now think of the united states as one big hotel, the world is a big place, people will always have to full fill the role of people, if we fail we get locked up for various reasons, so we either play ball or we get replaced.

Its fairly simple to see why they don't care about the people and cater to the businesses.  You can take the people away all you want(not like they really have anywhere to go), but you don't touch the glass doors, they always remain polished and open for the new generation of kids with less brains and brawns than before.

Truth be told, when this watson computer shit really starts to take off, thats when shits gunna hit the fan, the people become even more worthless...


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineSynesthetic
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Re: Michigan is screwed? The United states is screwed? [Re: blujay]
    #14108141 - 03/12/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

blujay said:
Quote:

Synesthetic said:
Unemployment isn't being caused by taxes. It's being caused by mechanization, and it's a global issue.

Even if those corporations move to the US, they're going to use the cheapest labor (machine labor) to operate. They're not going to pass on technology that's faster, more efficient, and less expensive just because we're in an unemployment crisis. Within a decade, the Watson technology will probably start mechanizing things like technical support, and who knows what other advances will come to replace human labor.

The idea of selling labor for income was needed for a long time, but even at the current state of technology, it's starting to lose its relevance. Unemployment's going to keep going up because not enough people have the education to maintain the machines that are taking their jobs, and they won't have the money to get that education.




If you have no idea how Watson works, and what Watson is, you shouldn't use Watson as a precedent for the advancement of artificial intelligence. Unless the problem you're having with your Macbook is that you're having trouble determining every possible move and permutation of moves there-out in response to a chess master's decision and then finding the probabilities of success, Watson will not be able to help you.

Also voice recognition is nowhere near capable of handling the incredible variety of dialects, languages, and accents that humans blather out; never mind our ability to use grammar in backwards ways and still understand each other.

That said, computers/robots will probably continue to replace humans for specific tasks. So your point is solid, just not the example.




Watson archived terabytes of information in its RAM which it is able to search through using cues from natural language to find the most probable answer, as well as listing other possible answers. If, instead of giving it a massive amount of information on a lot of subjects so it can compete in a trivia game, you fed it full of medical information, it would be able to suggest treatments and tests for patients.

I never said Watson itself is AI, it's just another big step towards AI. It's completely different than a search engine, which is just looking for the same combination of characters you put in it on all the web pages it can find.

Also, the computer that plays chess is Deep Blue, not Watson, and unlike Deep Blue, Watson isn't a one-trick-pony. Playing Jeopardy was just a fun little challenge IBM wanted to do when they were already working on finding a way to make computers understand and respond to natural language, which is a huge problem in voice recognition software.


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