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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
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Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor * 1
    #14094629 - 03/09/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is the clip that bothered me:

"Ruoho speculates that the hallucinogen's involvement may mean that the sigma-1 receptor is connected in some fashion to psychoactive behavior. When his team injected DMT into mice known to have the receptor, the animals became hyperactive; mice in which the receptor had been genetically removed did not."

"Hyperactive behavior is often associated with drug use or psychiatric problems," says Ruoho. "It's possible that new, highly selective drugs could be developed to inhibit the receptor and prevent this behavior."

1. Twitches and anxiety in mice are being studied as indication of a hallucinogenic profile. I know I flop around a lot on the floor, but I'm sure that big serpent who whispers to me has more archetypal substance than "hyperactivity." :lol:

2. Why in God's sacred penis would anyone care to develop a compound to inhibit the receptor to prevent tripping? I know these fuckers are probably funded by NIDA, but holy shit, batman... suck a fart out of my asshole. Talk about selling out. Let's trade science for government. Great, see ya there.

Read the article here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091124204318.htm


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Invisibleopenmind
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Registered: 08/03/07
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14112708 - 03/13/11 01:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Bump worthy....




:stoner:


.


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OfflineMind Transcribing
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14112732 - 03/13/11 01:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa, what the fuck?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14112734 - 03/13/11 01:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have there been any studies on the spiritual development and reduction of the fear of death in mice following administration of DMT?

:smirk:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14113717 - 03/13/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Have there been any studies on the spiritual development and reduction of the fear of death in mice following administration of DMT?

:smirk:




This is among the many reasons Shulgin encourages bioassay. You can't test for empathy or other complex emotions in a rat.

Reductionism, materialism, evolutionary psychology, and psychophysiology all have their place -- but it's imperative that we study the behavioral components as well and not just the neurochemical correlates.

Of course, isolated dopamine fluctuations in petri dishes are less damaging to the status quo.


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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14113767 - 03/13/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:

2. Why in God's sacred penis would anyone care to develop a compound to inhibit the receptor to prevent tripping? I know these fuckers are probably funded by NIDA, but holy shit, batman... suck a fart out of my asshole. Talk about selling out. Let's trade science for government. Great, see ya there.

Read the article here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091124204318.htm




An inhibitor will allow the receptor to be better studied, activators as well as inhibitors are required to properly study receptor activation and downstream signalling effects


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14113793 - 03/13/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


An inhibitor will allow the receptor to be better studied, activators as well as inhibitors are required to properly study receptor activation and downstream signalling effects




You forgot the last part:

"inhibit the receptor and prevent this behavior."

Preventing behavioral hyperactivity to these researchers isn't equivalent to wanting to help psychotic episodes in the mentally ill because the episodes occupy the same biochemical pathway (they don't). They are instead looking for ways to stop the psychoactive effects of tryptamines.

From another recent study:

"Our study shows that while both serotonin and hallucinogens act at the serotonin 2A receptor, serotonin utilizes a very specific pathway and its actions are independent of those produced by hallucinogens,"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101005171034.htm


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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14113812 - 03/13/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

my bad, i thought they were just talking about the interaction at the biochemical level, not the behavioural effects

i still say its a way of further studying how psychoactives work and to give the researchers an insight into possible antipsychotic treatments,

are you seriously suggesting these bad men are attempting to make anti-acid to stop people from tripping?


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14113860 - 03/13/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

are you seriously suggesting these bad men are attempting to make anti-acid to stop people from tripping?




Not at all, that would be quite paranoid. Science has a very clean history, except of course for forced immunizations, primate testing, racist eugenics, corrupt nuclear technologists, holocaust experiments, pharmaceutical company botched data, and political "science"... get it?

You cannot divorce values from knowledge in systems. It's impossible. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Even the questions we ask are informed by our world views. It's co-evolution (see below).

But I digress. My original point is mostly about how pussified and subservient the sciences have become to the ever-watchful eye of big brother. We have to frame our discourse as though every fucking psychopharmacology study with scheduled substances is looking for a way to "prevent abuse." Fuck that.





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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14114856 - 03/13/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
But I digress. My original point is mostly about how pussified and subservient the sciences have become to the ever-watchful eye of big brother. We have to frame our discourse as though every fucking psychopharmacology study with scheduled substances is looking for a way to "prevent abuse." Fuck that.





It appears you are looking you are looking at this from a single point of view,

Science is most definitely not subservient to government (big brother whatever). Although in the media certain areas of science are given more focus than others this just represents a bias in the reporting of scientific discoveries but not bias in the focus of research.

Consider Dr. David E. Nichols, in the field of psychoactive pharmacology he is a high profile scientist, in terms of his drug development he is almost the new Shulgin, of course Nichols isn't as pro psychedelic as Shulgin but that hasn't stopped him designing new series of psychoactives. And it certainly hasn't stopped these new psychoactives reaching the market. If science was subservient to gorernment this information would not be published as public knowledge.

Anyway back to the idea of inhibiting the pathways that psychedelics activate, whats the problem? They may offer insight into the mechanism of action of psychedelics and may have use as antipsychotics, instant trip stopping drugs or simply research tools.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #14114965 - 03/13/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If science was subservient to gorernment this information would not be published as public knowledge.




By published as public knowledge do you mean released as a fictional account of a love story between two people who may or may not have had fictional psychedelic sessions with anonymous people in their living room? Right, and the McKenna brothers published under Oss and Oeric because they thought the rhyme was sexy.

Rhodium was shut down. The Hive was shut down. Overgrow was shut down. Operation Web Tryp shut down literal interpretations of the chemistry.

The only loophole now is pretending like we are doing research for receptor-site agonism or learning about addiction... the sad thing is such a facade has invited the wrong crowd and many have forgotten we're only pretending.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14114971 - 03/13/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Again, you're interpreting scientific research from a skewed philosophical and political view.

As a class, hallucinogens are pharmacological curiosities.  Beyond a basic understanding, it's unknown exactly how they produce their effects.  Even among the more well characterized hallucinogens, DMT is unique.

Thus, determining DMT's mechanism of action is interesting across many different levels.

Rodents are used as a standard preclinical model.  This is because they're cheap, and you can manipulate them in ways you could not do to a human. 

The fact that DMT seems to act at an obscure receptor scientifically interesting.  This is basic science research, not a spiritual investigation, not a conspiracy theory, not a drive for legalization, and not necessarily a commercial venture.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14115065 - 03/13/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Science moves much faster than government, and to be fair, that "fictionalized love story" is only half the book. The other half is a series of drug recipes with descriptions of what it's like to be on them. We're doing all right with regards to freedom of speech IMO.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleThe Whale

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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: badchad]
    #14115084 - 03/13/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Again, you're interpreting scientific research from a skewed philosophical and political view.




There is no such thing as science that is independent of these things. You've never heard of Kuhn? Theoretical scientific philosophy aside, even quantum experiments have re-confirmed our inseparability from how we direct, interpret, and process our research observations. 101, kiddo.

Quote:

badchad said:
  This is basic science research, not a spiritual investigation, not a conspiracy theory, not a drive for legalization, and not necessarily a commercial venture.




And with exception to Strassman et al. essentially the only kind of research. 

Yes, sir! I'll stick to receptor agonism.



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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14115091 - 03/13/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i was specifically referring to Dr. Dave E. Nicholas papers published in peer reviewed journals which are currently directing the next generation of designer psychoactives


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14115110 - 03/13/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

At this point, there are enough IND's with hallucinogens that the major hurdle is funding.  If you can raise the money, you're good to go.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: Psychoactive Compound (DMT) Activates Mysterious Receptor [Re: The Whale]
    #14115112 - 03/13/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If only creativity and imagination made people money.

"Hey, hippie. Get on the floor and drop the ingenuity or we'll shoot!"

Quote:

i was specifically referring to Dr. Dave E. Nicholas papers published in peer reviewed journals which are currently directing the next generation of designer psychoactives




Nichols turned into an ego maniac like Weil and will have his nutsack bitten off by dust bunnies if he ever actually tastes the compounds he's pumping out. Besides, he's a die-hard proponent of neural correlates of consciousness (NCCs) as being the modus operandi for the mind.

Strassman tried to begin his trials in New Mexico with a medical paradigm. We see which road that went down. :rofl:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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