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BothHands
Dog Coffee



Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc:
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094538 - 03/09/11 07:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What the fuck? I don't think you've thought that through. At least there's some system in place to help protect against abuse. Sure, it's broken, but abolishing it would only make things far worse. We need reform.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094539 - 03/09/11 07:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: really? private school teachers make less and arent unionized yet the kids get a better education, how will we explain that away, corporate greed?
Private school is an indicator of economic status, it could just be that their better performance is indicative of that instead.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: BothHands]
#14094546 - 03/09/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BothHands said: What are you talking about? Do you know what tenure is?
"Tenure commonly refers to life tenure in a job and specifically to a senior academic's contractual right not to have his or her position terminated without just cause."
Being a shitty teacher would definitely be considered just cause.
and by what arbitrary definition shall 'just cause' be determined as, you obviously havent see how litigious the unions are when it comes to 'just cause', something that often costs millions, cheaper to keep them
watch this, it's pretty informative and came out well before this shit in wisconsin http://www.hulu.com/watch/182344/stossel-thu-sep-16-2010#x-0,vepisode,1,0
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masterharf
Stranger



Registered: 11/09/10
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Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094548 - 03/09/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you have any idea what it takes to be a teacher?
yes. a bachelors degree in very easy classes. a little bit of student teaching and maybe being a fill in babysitter (substitute teacher)
-------------------- harf
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094550 - 03/09/11 07:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't forget that the cops were exempt from these policies.
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antiPock
fighting entropy



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 2,509
Loc: Sol 3
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14094555 - 03/09/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Like most threads of any real importance here, it is pretty much a waste of time. You can either preach to the choir, or listen to ridiculous arguments and constant redirection from the facts.
Quote:
Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: really? private school teachers make less and arent unionized yet the kids get a better education, how will we explain that away, corporate greed?
Private school is an indicator of economic status, it could just be that their better performance is indicative of that instead.
Now don't go bringing reason into this debate, no siree. Don't stop Pris from deriving an unproven conclusion from some unrelated issue, which even if proven would still signify NOTHING to anyone with a brain. Bullshit redirection is all that was
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#14094560 - 03/09/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said: Don't forget that the cops were exempt from these policies. 
Cops and firefights aka the unions that voted for walker. However, they're both showing solidarity with the other unions.
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BothHands
Dog Coffee



Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
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Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094580 - 03/09/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: really? private school teachers make less and arent unionized yet the kids get a better education, how will we explain that away, corporate greed?
Private schools have much smaller class sizes, so that the teachers can have more individual time with students. The teachers have a lot less stress, a lot fewer papers to grade, etc.
But recently the private school salaries have risen markedly. According to the The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, private school and public school teachers have very similar average salaries.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: 4HO-DMT] 1
#14094582 - 03/09/11 07:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said: Don't forget that the cops were exempt from these policies. 
I feel they all should be held to the same standard
I posted the wrong video earlier, no clue what that one covers
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338
here's the correct video
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094597 - 03/09/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/02/unions
Pris, can you explain to me why the states without collective bargaining rights have the worst test scores and that the states that do have much better scores? If unions are so bad and don't do anything for schools, why is it that there is clearly a strong correlation?
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094607 - 03/09/11 07:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: That 137mil def sure isn't being helped by giving corporations a free ride. How about taxing the people who actually have money instead of taxing people who don't have shit?
Those corporations that wouldn't be in Wisco otherwise? Corporate tax breaks are typically used to incentivize corporations to come to the area, bringing JOBS that would have otherwise been absent.
I'm not familiar with Wisco, so i dont know if thats the case for these tax breaks you speak of - but oftentimes it is. Quote:
learningtofly said: I fail to see how completely taking away their right to even be at the table is justified.
Even if your unfounded claim is correct, why is it necessary to completely strip them of the right to even bargain?
They have the right to NOT work at my corporation, in teh event that they do not like the wages & conditions provided by me, which are guided by law.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: memes]
#14094611 - 03/09/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Please, some of them don't pay ANY taxes and barely bring in any jobs at all.
tell me exactly what jobs they're bringing in.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: BothHands]
#14094617 - 03/09/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BothHands said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: really? private school teachers make less and arent unionized yet the kids get a better education, how will we explain that away, corporate greed?
Private schools have much smaller class sizes, so that the teachers can have more individual time with students. The teachers have a lot less stress, a lot fewer papers to grade, etc. But recently the private school salaries have risen markedly. According to the The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, private school and public school teachers have very similar average salaries.
around here the average class size in public school is 28 kids, in private schools it's typically around 24, the pay in the local schools for teachers in public schools averages $50k/yr, the high side is $75k and the low side is $33k (excluding certain positions like para pro) the administrators in the school, my kids principal in fact is pulling $105k/yr with administrator positions averaging around $90k and all they really do in public schools is teach them to pass standardized testing so they can keep their accreditation and their budgets
the county made all the salaries public record and posted them online, that's how I learned this info and I know a few teachers at one of the private schools near me, a really nice place
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094637 - 03/09/11 08:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/02/unions
Pris, can you explain to me why the states without collective bargaining rights have the worst test scores and that the states that do have much better scores? If unions are so bad and don't do anything for schools, why is it that there is clearly a strong correlation?
why yes, it's because the economist has a liberal bias
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094647 - 03/09/11 08:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Please, some of them don't pay ANY taxes and barely bring in any jobs at all.
tell me exactly what jobs they're bringing in.
which corporations are paying absolutely no taxes?
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094662 - 03/09/11 08:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: why is it necessary to completely strip them of the right to even bargain?
They should bargain and be compensated according to their abilities and merit.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: badchad]
#14094688 - 03/09/11 08:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: why is it necessary to completely strip them of the right to even bargain?
They should bargain and be compensated according to their abilities and merit.
would that be the abilities and merits of the group or the individual?
maybe individual bargaining rights?
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14094742 - 03/09/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: Please, some of them don't pay ANY taxes and barely bring in any jobs at all.
tell me exactly what jobs they're bringing in.
which corporations are paying absolutely no taxes?
Bank of America, Citigroup, Wellsfargo, Boing to name a few.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094766 - 03/09/11 08:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Senator Chris Larson
Quote:
SEN. LARSON: I think a lot of what they’ve done is on the borderline of what is legal. It’s definitely questionable democracy. What they’ve done is an embarrassment to our country and our state. They’ve shut down the people is what they’ve done.
I can’t tell you how heartbroken I am that they would deliver this death-blow to the people at this time where we’re trying to ban together to get through this.
I’m actually in my car right now speeding towards Madison trying to get there to do something, anything. It’s already passed. I’ve been driving for the last hour since I heard news that this is what they were going to do. They didn’t give us a chance. They didn’t give the public a chance to do anything about it.
This is case where every single one of those Republicans, all 19, just signed their political obituaries. This is it.
They just thumbed their nose at the people by shutting down the public debate 3 weeks ago, they shut it down after 17.5 hours, they shut down the legislative hotline because they got sick of people talking about this.
Then they shut down the Capitol and locked everybody out.
Then they shut down the debate on the assembly floor and jammed this through in the middle of the night before people had finished speaking about it.
Then they took over our offices. Then this, with no notice whatsoever.
And this, in the days before, where under the guise they were looking to compromise, looking to negotiate, and instead they pulled this. It’s an embarrassment to what our country is and I think that these recalls just got a new wave of energy from everyone in our state.
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BothHands
Dog Coffee



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Re: Jesus fucking christ, Walker just stripped workers of their collective bargaining rights [Re: learningtofly]
#14094795 - 03/09/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I’m actually in my car right now speeding towards Madison trying to get there to do something, anything. It’s already passed. I’ve been driving for the last hour since I heard news that this is what they were going to do. They didn’t give us a chance. They didn’t give the public a chance to do anything about it.
Driving and typing is dangerous.
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