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Registered: 02/06/11 Posts: 1,198 Loc: |
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If you feel a law is unnecessary or just stupid should you follow it?
Take speed limits. On most interstates the speed limit is 70 mph. Depending on your vehicle, you can safely travel at speeds well over this, traffic permitting. If your need to speed is dire, and it is two in the morning and you're the only car on the road, there is no reason to travel at the speed limit other than because it is law. So do you speed? Trespassing is another one. If you feel, like I do, that the earth is place that can be owned by nothing, is it ok to explore it freely even if you are exploring somewhere you are technically trespassing? IMO, if you don't feel the need to put something inside then it shouldn't be off limits. For residential property, I feel that if you aren't hopping a fence then you aren't trespassing. But this is not the case(in america), and many wonderful places are off limits if you obey the law. Last thing. Drug dealers are true rebels of the law. I know my weed dealer has been doin business for a long time because he is smart, he knows the laws and how to avoid them, and his risk level is significantly reduced. If you know how to avoid being caught, the laws punishments aren't a realistic factor anymore, just a reason to always have to be smart about it. So it comes down to this. If you can avoid being caught and you disagree with a law fundamentally, is there any reason to follow it?
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:There can be, if a person comes up with one; were you not aware that people can come up with their own reasons for doing things?
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I Respect I Eternally Registered: 03/07/11 Posts: 157 |
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I try to make sure that the laws I break do not place anyone else in danger. Most laws in America are in place to protect us from ourselves (i.e., drug laws) and I feel that it should be my choice to "protect" myself or not. Any educated drug user who treats the substances they use with respect and takes care of their body will also practice harm minimization techniques (if they're even necessary). This is how drug laws should be, but I understand the flip side because too many people are completely ignorant about drugs and could ruin their lives if they let things get out of control. Quite honestly I'd rather them be illegal but with smaller punishments for personal users, at least it keeps the uneducated/misinformed masses from free access to drugs, that's who gives them a bad rap anyway.
-------------------- gettin' high to balance out the lows
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:What is how drug laws should be? ![]() Quote:How does it do that? --------------------
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I Respect I Eternally Registered: 03/07/11 Posts: 157 |
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Quote: Pardon, drug laws should be written in a way that allows the respectful recreational drug users to have minimal legal penalties. I understand why the system is the way it is however and there's not much to do except be careful when transporting and possessing illegal substances and hope to not get caught. Quote: They'll still have access to the black market for drugs, but at least I won't see jail time for getting caught with a couple of grams of pot in my state. This should be the same for other substances such as psychedelics. If I'm caught with psychedelics of any type in my state it's jail, even if it's just in amounts for personal use, that's overkill in my opinion. At least having drugs remain illegal will turn a lot of potential users away (I know many people who don't do drugs simply because of their legal status). Keeping them illegal would stop them from being sold in stores where anyone and their mom can get drugs and abuse them and give them an even worse connotation than they already have. At least you need to seek them out deliberately now and in many cases the drugs find you, which is usually a positive thing when it comes to psychedelics. -------------------- gettin' high to balance out the lows
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Shamanic Panic Registered: 07/31/09 Posts: 8,535 Loc: magic sugarcastl |
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I generally follow laws, unless they interfere with with my desires, or if the law interferes with a basic right.
Desire = speeding. it's not a basic right for me to go 90 mph, but fuck, sometimes i wanna, and i can if my car isn't a clunker. it's a desire because i could just as easily get to my destination going 70 instead of 90. i guess trespassing could go here.. but your description fits better with the next category Basic Right = freedom of consciousness. i don't think someone else can tell me what to do to my body. i guess your description of trespassing goes here, because you seem to be saying that 'sharing the earth' is a fundamental concept. but sometimes my idea of basic rights and desires gets convoluted, and i have to choose. what do you think i go with
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:Oh I see, and pretty much agree; I'm glad that I can legally smoke pot where I live, and can buy world-quality pot without having to mess with shitty drug dealers. I generally don't worry about the law when it comes to drug use, because I don't usually use anything other than weed, and when I do, I am very discreet. I think society eventually needs to get to a point where all drugs are legal, this "Drug War" nonsense is buttfucking unbelievable. Quote:I know they will, so why did you say that they'll be kept from free access to drugs? What did you mean by "free access" anyways? Did you mean that they would be kept from being freely able to access drugs, or that they would be kept from having access to free drugs? ![]() I want me some free drugs... ![]() Quote:If people were smart, they would understand that it's the individual, not the drug, that is to blame for drug abuse, and that forbidding everyone from using drugs just because some people fuck up their lives with them is unfair. Quote:Psychedelics hardly ever find me, and the only place I know where to get them is on Haight St. in S.F., which I absolutely haight going to for drugs because I have to talk to a lot of burned-out hippies! ( )![]() I'd prefer it if drugs were 100%, then I wouldn't have to deal with dirty hippies in order to get my psychedelics, and sketch-ass black people in order to get my coke.
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Registered: 02/10/08 Posts: 56,232 |
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Quote: No reason that I'd use, certainly. However, one could try to make an argument that breaking the law even if you won't get caught and fundamentally disagree with it shows a lack of respect for the law as a whole and that abiding in this society as a citizen it is your civic and moral duty to follow the set laws that are established therein.
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Blue Fish Group Registered: 04/01/07 Posts: 45,414 Loc: Under the C |
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Quote: I think we should all crash at your place without your permission.
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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I'm sure he'll clean up after us.
![]() Some people have absolutely no concept of how the animal world operates.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:I'll bring the kegs and the porno!
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Registered: 02/10/08 Posts: 56,232 |
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Why bring porno when you can bring strippers? (Apart from being a cheapskate, of course
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Why bring strippers when you can bring hookers?
![]() Or, if mushiepussy has a sister (with a musshie pussy), we can just kidnap her and have all the free sex we want; the money we save can be spent on buying dominatrix gear for her to wear, and morning-after pills.
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Registered: 02/06/11 Posts: 1,198 Loc: |
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Quote: Exactly. Is this moral obligation to society more important than the one to ourselves?
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Registered: 02/06/11 Posts: 1,198 Loc: |
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Quote: I'm a hunter, I have a very firm concept of the animal world. The problem is humans are not animals, they are unpredictable. I know if I see a hungry bear I should gtfo, but when I see a hungry man I don't know whether to feed him or protect myself. I like to give him the benifit of the doubt with a hand on my machete.
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote: ![]() Quote:Yup, that they're unpredictable means that they're not animals. --------------------
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Registered: 02/10/08 Posts: 56,232 |
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Quote: Entirely depends on what system of morality you adhere to. ![]() Quote:
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I Respect I Eternally Registered: 03/07/11 Posts: 157 |
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Quote:Quote:Oh I see, and pretty much agree; I'm glad that I can legally smoke pot where I live, and can buy world-quality pot without having to mess with shitty drug dealers. I generally don't worry about the law when it comes to drug use, because I don't usually use anything other than weed, and when I do, I am very discreet.Quote:Quote:What is how drug laws should be? I'm envious, enjoy your freedom to get high as you please. There isn't a single political topic I'm more passionate about than the re-fucking-diculousness of marijuana not being legal while alcohol is. I'll restrain myself and save it for another discussion . I'm the same way; the rare occasions when I have anything other than weed in my possession I make sure to use the utmost discretion. That's part of being a responsible drug user as far as I'm concerned. I'll give you that; the "Drug War" is just as senseless as any other war, if not more so. I’m just not sure how society would handle the full legalization of drugs. I guess I’m not against it but I’m not sold on it either, enlighten me .Quote:Quote:I know they will, so why did you say that they'll be kept from free access to drugs? What did you mean by "free access" anyways? Did you mean that they would be kept from being freely able to access drugs, or that they would be kept from having access to free drugs?Quote:Quote:How does it do that? Free access, like being able to walk into a 7/11 and buy an 8-ball of coke, if it were legal. More than just free access to drugs, there would also be more locations to purchase drugs from. These statements are made under the possibly inaccurate assumption that there would be very loose regulation on the sales of drugs if they were to be fully legalized. Access to the black market for drugs isn’t always the easiest to find, especially in some parts of the country. Where I live I’m fortunate to have access to any drug I could ever want and then some. Not everyone has that luxury, and for those individuals the black market isn’t freely accessible like it would be if they could just walk into a store to make the same purchase. It sounds like you don't have the easiest time obtaining psychedelics either .Quote:Quote:If people were smart, they would understand that it's the individual, not the drug, that is to blame for drug abuse, and that forbidding everyone from using drugs just because some people fuck up their lives with them is unfair. Once again, I agree with you, there is a big difference between drug use and responsible drug use. It is the individual who controls what the drugs do to them (not the affects of the drug of course, but how they allow the drugs to control their lives). I still believe that full legalization would encourage those who would never use drugs pre-legalization just because they didn’t want to do anything illegal, and these are the individuals who could potentially give drugs a bad reputation. Not every single one of them, but there would probably be an increase in the amount of uneducated people suddenly taking an interest in drugs and end up abusing them because they’re freely available to possess and use without legal consequences. There will also be others of the same mindset that would do a great deal of research before ever touching a substance; these are people who legalization would benefit. Again, I'm still on the fence about full legalization of drugs, but my opinion is malleable on this topic so give me some evidence to support what you're hoping for. Quote:Quote:Psychedelics hardly ever find me, and the only place I know where to get them is on Haight St. in S.F., which I absolutely haight going to for drugs because I have to talk to a lot of burned-out hippies! ( That sounds pretty sketch . I guess I don’t have to deal with anything like that when getting my drugs; they really do seem to find me… Every time I get the itch to trip a buddy seems to hit me up with perfect timing telling me about some new fry he just got or dank shrooms, and everything just falls into place .
-------------------- gettin' high to balance out the lows
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Fool Registered: 11/05/10 Posts: 5,219 Loc: Being a burden |
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Quote:
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:Yeah, it really kicks ass; I don't get high as I please, though, because I don't have enough money to do that. I still get pretty high considering, though. ![]() Quote:Only one " " per paragraph is permitted. ![]() I don't really think being a discrete drug user necessarily means that you are a responsible one, and I don't think responsible drug users are necessarily discrete; if drugs were legal, I probably wouldn't be discrete at all, but I would still be responsible in the sense that I would ensure that I wouldn't do anything that would put my, or anybody else's life at risk. I think it's much more senseless than other wars, sometimes war is necessary. I personally don't care if people fuck their lives up on drugs, it's neither my problem or business. I only have this one life, and I think it sucks ass that I have to skirt around the law in order to do what I enjoy, all because a bunch of junkie 'tards fucked up their lives on heroin. I don't care how society would handle the full legalization of drugs, as long as it doesn't cause the violent crime rate to soar. The fundamental purpose of government IMO is to protect us from each other, and to try to improve the quality of life of citizens as a whole; the government has absolutely no business to be telling us what we can do with our own bodies IMO, that they can and do is almost unbelievable. Quote:I don't see what's so wrong about them buying dope in 7/11, why would you have a problem with that if it's not any of your business? I think, in an ideal state, drugs that are sold in stores would come with a modest tax, and we'd have the full right to produce whatever drugs we wish to in our own homes. Quote:I don't, it sucks. I used to have a reliable source for acid, but that disappeared. Quote:If it's legal, who cares? I really couldn't give a shit if drugs become legal, and some people who wouldn't have tried drugs if they were still illegal ended getting high; why is this such a concern for you? Quote:So? There's a such thing as rehab. Quote:I'm not sure why you're on the fence, or why you care if people try drugs; really, why is that such a big deal to you? Quote:That's pretty chill.
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I Respect I Eternally Registered: 03/07/11 Posts: 157 |
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Quote:Quote:Only one " They don’t always correlate, true. In the current state of society discretion is a responsible thing to practice though. It doesn’t necessarily mean that discretion is the only thing that makes a drug user responsible, or that responsible drug users are always discrete. That said, confession time: Some buddies and I smoked a bowl sitting on the curb at 4am while in San Fran a couple weeks ago. Knowing it’s a small fine if caught doesn’t instill too much fear, and we are all what I would consider to be responsible drug users. Experiencing that freedom was nice, and now that I look back on that memory nostalgically, I can attest that it would be liberating to be able to roam this playground that we call our world without the fear of being punished for doing something that we enjoy. Quote: Up until this point I felt that having no consideration for what others do to themselves is selfish, at least in regards to the drug legalization issue. Then I was smacked in the face with the realization that I am selfish. In order to dispel any type of hypocrisy, I’m going to have to hop over to one side of the proverbial fence. Following that, I realized that I really don’t care what drugs people do or how they choose to fuck up their lives, if that’s what happens when they indulge in drugs. I know that when I use drugs, I do it responsibly and that’s the end of the road for my concern for the millions of miscellaneous junkies out there. I do, however, have concern for people I consider my friends and how they use drugs, and would intervene if I noticed them fucking up their lives because of drug use, which is fair. And while the government is here to protect us from each other, it seems to have taken on the role of protecting us from ourselves. This is where things get fucked and when drug laws come into play. I am the only person I can directly affect with my personal drug use. Having those laws in place is just trying to keep me from harming myself. That’s a bit of an intrusive role the government has taken on, and I don’t appreciate it. Quote:Quote:I don't see what's so wrong about them buying dope in 7/11, why would you have a problem with that if it's not any of your business? I think, in an ideal state, drugs that are sold in stores would come with a modest tax, and we'd have the full right to produce whatever drugs we wish to in our own homes. Again, with the newfound realization that personal drug use only directly affects one individual, I have no complaints against this. Taxes would be good for the economy, but would also support the same government that deems it necessary to protect us from ourselves. I want to do the contrary, and explore myself with myself (my mind). I’ll do my best to keep my findings from being a threat to…myself. Thanks for trying to keep me safe Uncle Sam, but I’m just not interested . Plus being able to grow bud or mushies without the fear of legal repercussions would be pretty fucking awesome.Quote:Quote:I don't, it sucks. I used to have a reliable source for acid, but that disappeared. That’s a bummer. I'll share some irony with you; all of the acid we get here comes from San Fran .Quote:Quote:If it's legal, who cares? I really couldn't give a shit if drugs become legal, and some people who wouldn't have tried drugs if they were still illegal ended getting high; why is this such a concern for you?Quote: If they were in fact legal, then there would be no harm in somebody giving drugs a bad reputation, because the main thing that having a bad rep would hinder is legalization which would have already happened. As of now, it makes my stomach churn when I read in the news that someone ate some mushrooms and ripped somebody’s heart out. Thanks for that dude . That story got force-fed by the media to the same society that already gives psychedelics a negative connotation, resulting in a shitstream of ignorance that only serves to hinder the legalization of drugs. Everyone’s heard a story like that, and when it keeps happening, time and again, it scares people away from considering the legalization of drugs. And since we live in a society where drugs aren’t yet legal, it really does fuck it up for the rest of us when someone uses the drugs irresponsibly. Not in the sense that any of us are personally affected (unless it was your heart that got ripped out), but it’s like taking two steps back right after making a step forward. I’m all for the “fuck you do what you want with your life” mentality, but try your best not to ruin it for the community who respectfully uses drugs, which is also a fair point of view to have.Quote:Quote:So? There's a such thing as rehab. True that, perhaps rehab centers would become so successful that they’re turn out to be just the boost our shitty economy needs .Quote: I hate to say it, but I think you’ll still be picking up your fry from the same dirty hippies, they’ll just have a business license hooked onto their braided hemp necklace .
-------------------- gettin' high to balance out the lows
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Registered: 02/06/11 Posts: 1,198 Loc: |
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Quote: Does it?
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:The fuck? --------------------
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Small Town Girl Registered: 03/06/10 Posts: 5,128 Loc: United States Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
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Explain to me, how humans are not animals.
-------------------- Live your Life!
Edited by iThink (03/10/11 07:30 PM)
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Shroomery's #1 Spellir Registered: 02/04/08 Posts: 40,372 Loc: SF Bay Area |
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Quote:I smoke bowls pretty much wherever the fuck I want. ![]() Quote:Would you intervene by sticking them in a cell with rapists, murderers, violent aggressors, thieves, etc.? Quote:I believe that role is highly inappropriate. Quote:Neither do I, it pisses me off that there are people in this world who actually believe that the government should protect us from ourselves; apparently, this is the majority of people, since politicians who support anti-drug legislation keep being elected, and this fact sickens me a bit. Quote:Would a hypothetical government that allows its citizens to use whichever drugs they like be considered one deems it necessary to protect them from themselves? I think it would depend on the said government's other policies, but I don't think anti-prohibitionist policies alone would indicate that a government deems it necessary to protect its citizens from themselves. Quote:Haha, that's pretty funny. I don't know too many acid users, and the ones I do know don't have any reliable connections to the stuff. I think you're pretty lucky to know people who can actually get acid, people like that have been few and far in between IME. Quote: ![]() Quote: ![]() Quote:Nah, I don't think so; if fry were legal, then it would be much easier to get and I wouldn't have much of a hard time getting it from somebody who isn't a dirty hippie. --------------------
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)


. I'm the same way; the rare occasions when I have anything other than weed in my possession I make sure to use the utmost discretion. That's part of being a responsible drug user as far as I'm concerned. I'll give you that; the "Drug War" is just as senseless as any other war, if not more so. I’m just not sure how society would handle the full legalization of drugs. I guess I’m not against it but I’m not sold on it either, enlighten me
.
. I guess I don’t have to deal with anything like that when getting my drugs; they really do seem to find me… Every time I get the itch to trip a buddy seems to hit me up with perfect timing telling me about some new fry he just got or dank shrooms, and everything just falls into place
.


.
. That story got force-fed by the media to the same society that already gives psychedelics a negative connotation, resulting in a shitstream of ignorance that only serves to hinder the legalization of drugs. Everyone’s heard a story like that, and when it keeps happening, time and again, it scares people away from considering the legalization of drugs. And since we live in a society where drugs aren’t yet legal, it really does fuck it up for the rest of us when someone uses the drugs irresponsibly. Not in the sense that any of us are personally affected (unless it was your heart that got ripped out), but it’s like taking two steps back right after making a step forward. I’m all for the “fuck you do what you want with your life” mentality, but try your best not to ruin it for the community who respectfully uses drugs, which is also a fair point of view to have.
.
.


