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n.dangerously
Disease, Injury, Madness


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 107
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Another damn death-something post. .
#14090731 - 03/09/11 02:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can understand the fear of death. This fear being the eternal loss of consciousness.. blinked out forever. But, considering so many people are convinced that the soul lives on in whatever form of afterlife it is they believe; why is it there is such fear and grief suffered over mere body-death?
If one so wholeheartedly believes that their soul, or whatever you choose to call it, will live on; wouldn't these people embrace death and accept it for what they believe it is? I don't understand how people can get so wrapped up in such self-centered grief, and then claim that they believe the deceased is "in heaven now".
Is it possible for people to wake up and pick a side? Either celebrate that the dead are no longer stuck in this overwhelmingly disappointing physical state, and instead are off floating around and having the time of their lives (pun intended); or quit deluding themselves that they believe in "eternal bliss" when clearly they do not.
I'm sure similar topics get posted too often around here. But... fuck it.
Or butt-fuck it.. i don't care.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Another damn death-something post. . [Re: n.dangerously]
#14090737 - 03/09/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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n.dangerously said: If one so wholeheartedly believes that their soul, or whatever you choose to call it, will live on; wouldn't these people embrace death and accept it for what they believe it is?
Lots of religious people believe that they have a "mission" to accomplish or a "purpose" to fulfill here on Earth.
What do you mean by "embrace death"?
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n.dangerously said: I don't understand how people can get so wrapped up in such self-centered grief, and then claim that they believe the deceased is "in heaven now".
Um, have you ever thought that it's because they will miss them?
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n.dangerously said: Is it possible for people to wake up and pick a side? Either celebrate that the dead are no longer stuck in this overwhelmingly disappointing physical state, and instead are off floating around and having the time of their lives (pun intended); or quit deluding themselves that they believe in "eternal bliss" when clearly they do not.
Are you suggesting that grief over a loved one's death indicates that a person doesn't believe in eternal bliss?
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n.dangerously said: Or butt-fuck it.. i don't care.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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n.dangerously
Disease, Injury, Madness


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 107
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Another damn death-something post. . [Re: Poid]
#14090754 - 03/09/11 02:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lots of religious people believe that they have a "mission" to accomplish or a "purpose" to fulfill here on Earth.
What do you mean by "embrace death"?
I mean as death is natural end-process in life. Everything that lives dies. The point is that if one believes that there is heaven after death, would they not cheer the dead on through 'the gates'?
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Um, have you ever thought that it's because they will miss them?
I understand that's why they're grieving, but as i said, it is self-centered. Is it not be selfish to want to keep someone back from eternal bliss just so you don't have to miss them? Sounds like a dick-move to me. .
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Are you suggesting that grief over a loved one's death indicates that a person doesn't believe in eternal bliss?
Yes. If the deceased's soul is carried on to the afterlife, what is there to grieve?
Use your
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Another damn death-something post. . [Re: n.dangerously]
#14090778 - 03/09/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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n.dangerously said:
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Lots of religious people believe that they have a "mission" to accomplish or a "purpose" to fulfill here on Earth.
What do you mean by "embrace death"?
I mean as death is natural end-process in life. Everything that lives dies. The point is that if one believes that there is heaven after death, would they not cheer the dead on through 'the gates'?
Funerals aren't about the deceased's adventures in the afterlife, they're about remembering the person while they were here.
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n.dangerously said:
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Um, have you ever thought that it's because they will miss them?
I understand that's why they're grieving, but as i said, it is self-centered.
You didn't say shit about being self-centered, but I agree.
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n.dangerously said: Is it not be selfish to want to keep someone back from eternal bliss just so you don't have to miss them? Sounds like a dick-move to me..
I don't think believers in an afterlife want to see their loved ones again just so they don't have to miss them, and many of them accept the death of a loved one by thinking "God took him/her, it was part of his plan." or something similar without wishing them to be back from eternal bliss; it's possible to grieve for something without wanting it to come back, to grieve is not necessarily to wish for the thing being grieved for to come back.
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n.dangerously said:
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Are you suggesting that grief over a loved one's death indicates that a person doesn't believe in eternal bliss?
Yes. If the deceased's soul is carried on to the afterlife, what is there to grieve?
I don't know, perhaps a loss of some sort?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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n.dangerously
Disease, Injury, Madness


Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 107
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Another damn death-something post. . [Re: Poid]
#14090812 - 03/09/11 03:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Funerals aren't about the deceased's adventures in the afterlife, they're about remembering the person while they were here.
You sure? Seems like the living holding onto the dead for just a little bit longer to me. The need to see him/her one more time. Funerals are for the living, not the dead. That, and profits.
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You didn't say shit about being self-centered, but I agree.
Second paragraph: "I don't understand how people can get so wrapped up in such self-centered grief, and then claim that they believe the deceased is "in heaven now"."
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I don't think believers in an afterlife want to see their loved ones again just so they don't have to miss them, and many of them accept the death of a loved one by thinking "God took him/her, it was part of his plan." or something similar without wishing them to be back from eternal bliss; it's possible to grieve for something without wanting it to come back, to grieve is not necessarily to wish for the thing being grieved for to come back.
Again, with so much 'faith' in one's god and his 'plan', what is there to grieve? After all, god's doing what he does for the good of humanity. And, if there's need for a purpose, can't one find purpose in death? I've never heard someone proclaim "good job God, you really killed him good. Glad you're looking out. Keep up the good work."
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I don't know, perhaps a loss of some sort?
In my experience, it has never been loss, but the wanting more that is grieved over. Wanting to see him/her one more time, or how could you take him/her from me. Things of that nature.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Another damn death-something post. . [Re: n.dangerously]
#14090874 - 03/09/11 04:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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n.dangerously said:
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Funerals aren't about the deceased's adventures in the afterlife, they're about remembering the person while they were here.
You sure? Seems like the living holding onto the dead for just a little bit longer to me. The need to see him/her one more time. Funerals are for the living, not the dead. That, and profits.
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You didn't say shit about being self-centered, but I agree.
Second paragraph: "I don't understand how people can get so wrapped up in such self-centered grief, and then claim that they believe the deceased is "in heaven now"."
Whoops, I guess I didn't pay attention to that; either way, I don't see what point you're trying to make by mentioning that it is self-centered.
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n.dangerously said:
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I don't think believers in an afterlife want to see their loved ones again just so they don't have to miss them, and many of them accept the death of a loved one by thinking "God took him/her, it was part of his plan." or something similar without wishing them to be back from eternal bliss; it's possible to grieve for something without wanting it to come back, to grieve is not necessarily to wish for the thing being grieved for to come back.
Again, with so much 'faith' in one's god and his 'plan', what is there to grieve?
What do you mean? Grief is a multi-faceted response to loss, particularly to the loss of something to which a bond was formed; I don't understand why you ask "what is there to grieve?", the loss of a person to which a bond was formed still exists regardless of whether or not one has faith in God and his "plan".
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n.dangerously said:
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Funerals aren't about the deceased's adventures in the afterlife, they're about remembering the person while they were here.
You sure? Seems like the living holding onto the dead for just a little bit longer to me. The need to see him/her one more time. Funerals are for the living, not the dead. That, and profits.
Funerals are about saying goodbye to the person you lost, not about holding onto them; I'm not sure where you get this idea. I would say that funerals are both for the living and the dead.
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n.dangerously said: After all, god's doing what he does for the good of humanity. And, if there's need for a purpose, can't one find purpose in death?
Sure, one can, and many do, but generally, religious people don't. Actually, I'm not too sure what you mean by "purpose in death"; would one who finds purpose in death be suicidal?
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n.dangerously said: I've never heard someone proclaim "good job God, you really killed him good. Glad you're looking out. Keep up the good work."
Why would they say that? They have faith in "God's plan", and think that everything he does is for the good of humanity, but that doesn't mean that they have to like everything he does; what's good for humanity as a whole isn't necessarily good for any given individual, and I think they recognize this.
It's possible for them to feel mixed emotions about the death of a loved one, why wouldn't it? Why can't a person feel grief for the loss of a loved one while believing that it's for the "greater good"?
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n.dangerously said:
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I don't know, perhaps a loss of some sort?
In my experience, it has never been loss, but the wanting more that is grieved over.
Eulogies usually describe all the positive aspects of the deceased, they're not usually about wanting more of the deceased; you've misinterpreted what funerals are all about, and what people are expressing when they read eulogies in a funeral.
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n.dangerously said: Wanting to see him/her one more time, or how could you take him/her from me. Things of that nature.
There is no standard way to express grief, everybody is different; some people may talk about how they wish they could just see their loved one once more as a way to express grief for the loss of the loved one.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/09/11 04:57 AM)
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