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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: deCypher]
    #14114374 - 03/13/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
subjective experience being nothing more than physical interactions.




Doesn't my example of pain contradict this, though?  Again, if we list the complete physical interactions involved in stubbing one's toe, including the firing of all the nerves and a list of all the brain states produced by such an event, nowhere in this list do we find the subjective experience of how stubbing one's toe feels.  I agree with you (in your implicit assumption) that there is no mysterious force or thing in the physical realm in addition to these physical interactions, but one cannot neglect the metaphysical in any complete account of reality.




:thumbup: good philosophy right thar

the "I" thought is proof of a metaphysical reality, because neither the I, nor any other thought, can be found and pointed too.  And yet it's so clearly there.

The less bodily identification, the more prominent this realization is


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: g00ru]
    #14117158 - 03/13/11 11:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
subjective experience being nothing more than physical interactions.




Doesn't my example of pain contradict this, though?  Again, if we list the complete physical interactions involved in stubbing one's toe, including the firing of all the nerves and a list of all the brain states produced by such an event, nowhere in this list do we find the subjective experience of how stubbing one's toe feels.  I agree with you (in your implicit assumption) that there is no mysterious force or thing in the physical realm in addition to these physical interactions, but one cannot neglect the metaphysical in any complete account of reality.




:thumbup: good philosophy right thar

the "I" thought is proof of a metaphysical reality, because neither the I, nor any other thought, can be found and pointed too.  And yet it's so clearly there.

The less bodily identification, the more prominent this realization is




:facepalm: i don't want any part of this circlejerk.


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: nanomagnetic] * 3
    #14117178 - 03/13/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Awesome rebuttal brobrah.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: deCypher]
    #14117279 - 03/13/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Awesome rebuttal brobrah.




Not a rebuttal, it's a withdrawal. I don't like mixing metaphysics with my cogsci. I said that earlier. Carry on... :blankbubble:


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #14117326 - 03/13/11 11:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's plenty of experiments out there trying to get a handle on what consciousness is. They just leave more questions than anything tho. At least IMO.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #14117563 - 03/14/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Awesome rebuttal brobrah.




Not a rebuttal, it's a withdrawal. I don't like mixing metaphysics with my cogsci. I said that earlier. Carry on... :blankbubble:




Not very good cognitive science if you aren't willing to analyze your experience dood


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: g00ru]
    #14117594 - 03/14/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, IMO science can't really investigate consciousness because it can only handle what's empirically observable and verifiable... nobody can verify what my own subjective experience is, unfortunately.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: deCypher]
    #14117672 - 03/14/11 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ya but you can empirically observe your own consciousness

and consciousness in and of itself has no real qualities, so yeah science can't "learn" things about it, but it could hypothetically learn quite a bit about our inner subjective experiences. That's pretty much what Yoga is in India, a combination of empirical procedures with spiritual goals.  Lots of people balk at the mention of spirituality and science in the same sentence, but I believe it is the destiny of both to come together.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Do thoughts have innate power? [Re: g00ru]
    #14117719 - 03/14/11 01:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Lots of people balk at the mention of spirituality and science in the same sentence, but I believe it is the destiny of both to come together.




Me too.  :sambergfive:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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