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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
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U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels
    #14083163 - 03/07/11 07:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels
March 7, 2011 - tokeofthetown.com



CBS News has uncovered that the U.S. government has actually been allowing thousands of military-style firearms to be smuggled into Mexico "to see where they would end up." Investigators call the tactic "letting the guns walk."

The entire operation, which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) called "Fast and Furious," was kept secret from Mexico.

"Documents show the inevitable result," Sharyl Attkisson at CBS News reports. "The guns that ATF let go began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of weapons hit the streets ... the Fast and Furious group supervisor noted the escalating Mexican violence."

"One email noted, '958 killed in March 2010 ... most violent month since 2005,' " CBS News reports. "The same email notes: 'Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during March alone,' including 'numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles.' "

Senior officials including federal Agent John Dodson told CBS News they confronted their supervisors about the gun deal over and over.

Their answer, according to Dodson, was "If you're going to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs," CBS reports.

Agent Dodson and other sources told CBS News that the "gun walking" strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department.

Surveillance video obtained by CBS News shows suspected drug cartel suppliers carrying boxes of weapons to their cars at Phoenix gun shop. The boxes shown being loaded in the video were AK-47 type assault rifles.

So not only did ATF allow it -- they videotaped it.

But there was so much opposition to the gun walking, that an ATF supervisor wrote an email [PDF] nothing a "schism" among the agents, but dismissing their concerns. "Whether you care or not people of rank and authority at HQ are paying close attention to this case ... we are doing what they envisioned ... If you don't think this is fun you're in the wrong line of work ... Maybe the Maricopa County Jail is hiring detention officers and you can get $30,000 ... to serve lunch to inmates..."

"We just knew it wasn't going to end well," Dodson said. "There's just no way it could."

"Just when you think our war on drugs can't get any more absurd, I see truly sickening stories like this one come to light," writes Jon Walker at Firedoglake. "It shouldn't surprise anyone that these military-style guns, sold at the border, end up with increasingly militarized cartels who used them to murder people to protect their territory from the government and other cartels."

Most of the weapons the U.S. government allowed to be smuggled into Mexico haven't been recovered, Walker points out, and two of these U.S.-supplied assault rifles were found at the December 14, 2010 murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Dodson got the bad news from a colleague. "They said, 'Did you hear about the border patrol agent?' And I said, 'Yeah.' And they said "Well, it was one of the Fast and Furious guns.'

"There's not really much you can say after that," Dodson said.

Dodson said they never did take down a drug cartel -- but thousands of Fast and Furious weapons are still out there, and will be claiming victims on both sides of the border for years to come.

"Maybe, just maybe, politicians might ask if legalization and regulation of drugs is a better alternative then actively allowing criminals to buy military weapons," Walker writes at Firedoglake.

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OfflineRun
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14083186 - 03/07/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"Maybe, just maybe, politicians might ask if legalization and regulation of drugs is a better alternative then actively allowing criminals to buy military weapons," Walker writes at Firedoglake.


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You, me, this point in existence is undeniably so unique, we take everything for granite ,life , comprehension, feelings, thought, so accustomed to understanding that we've lost the meaning of fully understanding who we are..... we are the extra terrestrial, we are the unknown, we are the mystical...

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14083249 - 03/07/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:foreheadslap: Holy crap! But I'm not too surprised.

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OfflineGogglar
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14083466 - 03/07/11 08:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

.....wow

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14083486 - 03/07/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus christ what a corrupt idea.

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Invisiblegamer4life
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14083491 - 03/07/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This raises the question why are we arming them? To kill each other, or for a reason to go to war with cartels, or are we doing this so 35,000 can die just to try and bust some major drug organizations.

I'm outraged and you better believe I'm going to stay on Rep. Grassleys ass until we get some fucking answers. This is bullshit at it's finest. Since I'm from Iowa I can email him and he always responds in a very generous manor.


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Legalize!
  Stop putting our children in prisons.

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: gamer4life]
    #14083592 - 03/07/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I posted this in another ATF thread. It's worth repeating here.

CBS recently reported on ATF operation "Gun Walker". ATF agents intentionally allowed thousands of weapons from Arizona gun shops to be smuggled across the boarder, ostensibly in order to build a case against a drug cartel. Mexican media has reported that the ATF facilitated arms smuggling into Mexico for purposes of justifying increasing the ATF budget. With more guns on the street, larger gun bust get the ATF press they need to justify requests for more tax money.
http://cleanupatf.org/forums/index.php?/topic/178-mexican-press-on-operation-gunwalker/


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: gamer4life]
    #14083597 - 03/07/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, we sold the Taliban weapons back in the day so this news doesn't surprise me much.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #14083606 - 03/07/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AnastomosisJihad said:
CBS recently reported on ATF operation "Gun Walker". ATF agents intentionally allowed thousands of weapons from Arizona gun shops to be smuggled across the boarder, ostensibly in order to build a case against a drug cartel. Mexican media has reported that the ATF facilitated arms smuggling into Mexico for purposes of justifying increasing the ATF budget. With more guns on the street, larger gun bust get the ATF press they need to justify requests for more tax money.




They can't be that boneheaded.......can they?

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14085258 - 03/08/11 05:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

White House Avoids Comment on Botched ATF ‘Project Gunrunner’ Operation, Won’t Say If President Is Aware of It
March 8, 2011 - cnsnews.com

The White House on Monday refused comment on a brewing controversy over a botched sting operation in which the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allowed guns to flow to smugglers in the U.S. in an effort to trace the weapons to Mexico.

Some of the guns reportedly ended up at crimes scenes in Mexico, including those where U.S. law enforcement agents were killed.

Late last week, Attorney General Eric Holder asked the Justice Department's inspector general to probe “Project Gunrunner,” which allowed criminals to obtain guns as a means of tracking their flow to Mexican drug cartels. Two of those weapons were recovered at a firefight that killed U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent Brian Terry last December in southeastern Arizona.

The ATF has appointed a panel to review the operation, and Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is seeking more information on the matter as well.

CBS reporter Chip Reid on Monday asked if the White House had any comment on the matter.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney took questions on the ATF probe, but said only that the president is concerned about the flow of guns into Mexico. He did not say whether the president was aware of the Project Gunrunner controversy.

“Obviously, as the president pointed out when he spoke here with President Calderón, we take the issue of the flow of guns south very seriously, as we do the issue of the flow of drugs north, and – but beyond that I don’t have any comments,” Carney said.

Reid followed, “Is he [Obama] aware of the specific allegation that – ”

Carney answered, “I don’t know.”

Reid continued his question, “Hundreds of guns went into Mexico with the knowledge of ATF?”

“I don’t know, Chip,” Carney said.

Another reporter later asked, “Would he condone an ATF plan that uses – in effect, uses guns as bait?”

Carney answered, “I just don’t have anything for you on that except to point you to his statements about his concerns, our concerns about the flow of guns south. But this – for other questions about this story I would point you to the Department of Justice.”

According to the ATF, which falls under the Justice Department, Project Gunrunner was established "to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico and thereby deprive the narcotics cartels of weapons." An ATF fact sheet states, "Firearms tracing helps identify firearms straw purchasers, the traffickers, trafficking networks and patterns, thus allowing law enforcement to target and dismantle the infrastructure supplying firearms to the DTOs (drug-trafficking organizations) in Mexico."

In a joint news conference last week with Mexican President Felipe Calderon, President Barack Obama did not address the particular matter regarding the ATF sting, but he did talk about the need to stop the flow of U.S. guns into Mexico.

“Well, the Second Amendment in this country is part of our Constitution, and the president of the United States is bound by our Constitution,” Obama said. “So I believe in the Second Amendment. It does provide for Americans the right to bear arms for their protection, for their safety, for hunting, for a wide range of uses.

“That does not mean that we cannot constrain gun-runners from shipping guns into Mexico. And so we believe that we can shape an enforcement strategy that slows the flow of guns into Mexico, while at the same time preserving our Constitution,” the president added.

Obama later added, “One of the things that I think that President Calderon and I have discussed is how we can strengthen border security on both sides, so that drugs flowing north or guns and cash flowing south – that we are able at all these points to intervene, interdict in a way that doesn’t ... slow the commerce and trade that is so important between our two countries.”

In the letter to Grassley last Wednesday, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich said Holder asked the DOJ inspector general’s office to evaluate the concerns raised about ATF’s investigative actions and determine whether further investigation by the IG is needed.

Grassley had called on the Justice Department to provide his office with information, citing whistleblowers who have come forward on the matter.

“These agents were motivated to come forward after federal authorities recovered two of the Operation Fast and Furious guns at the scene where a Customs and Border Patrol Agent named Brian Terry was killed,” Grassley’s letter said.

“In response to my [previous] letter, the Department of Justice (DOJ) denied that ATF would ever knowingly allow weapons to fall into the hands of criminals, or let firearms ‘walk’ in an operation,” Grassley’s letter to Holder said. “On February 9, I wrote to DOJ and attached documents that supported the whistleblower allegations about the guns found at the scene of Agent Terry’s death.

“My office continues to receive mounting evidence in support of the whistleblower allegations,” Grassley continued.

The Grassley letter cited an ATF supervisor who was dismissive of the concerns of the other agents.

The Grassley letter included documents, including an e-mail from ATF Supervisor David Voth sent on March 12, 2010 that said, “If you don’t think this is fun, you’re in the wrong line of work— period! This is the pinnacle of domestic U.S. law enforcement techniques. After this the toolbox is empty. Maybe the Maricopa County Jail is hiring detention officers and you can get paid $30,000 (instead of $100,000) to serve lunch to inmates all day.”

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Offlineauronlives69
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14085267 - 03/08/11 05:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

someone up top is playing war games and using the people as there pawns, this really makes me sick to my stomach :puke:

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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: deCypher]
    #14085287 - 03/08/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Well, we sold the Taliban weapons back in the day so this news doesn't surprise me much.





That was to fight the communists. The "fighting the communists" is not surprising from US gov't, but letting guns go to mexico is (to me).


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: withoutawire]
    #14085753 - 03/08/11 09:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Withoutawire is absolutely right and I apologise, murder is murder.

So start growing your own weed, your own mushrooms, brew your own alcohol and if you must your own amphetamines.

DO IT FOR YOURSELF!

Do not give the government, the cartels or anyone any reason to use violence to pass their products. The ones that insist on violence are the ones violence should be used against. I've done everything for myself and if I can fucking do it then 99.9% of others can do it.

This is the only way to stop violence related to drugs, if you want to use substances then learn about them, grow them, produce them and keep them for yourself and your friends. Properly educate yourself on the origins and the conflict, murder ratio involved with specific substances and then make a conscious decision if you want to be a part of the market that puts a price on human life.



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Edited by HybridprX (03/08/11 10:02 AM)

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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: HybridprX]
    #14085764 - 03/08/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Right, because the ATF agents are the ones who implement this policy all the way down to the individual level.

They don't deserve to die for this. Most of them are in a state of unbelievable ignorance.

This method of thinking is no different than the pieces of shit who bring guns down so they can be used. Murder is murder.


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Invisiblegamer4life
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: withoutawire]
    #14086045 - 03/08/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The way the government looks at this is that it's a necessary evil.

It's called Utilitarian Ethics. Do harm now for the greater good later.

The governments view of the greater good is to rid the world of all drugs. So if they have to let 1,000,000 people die to rid the world of drugs they would. This in return would save 2,000,000 lives therefor it would be morally right for them to believe what they do.

But my opinion on the matter is it's wrong to arm these guys and then let them kill each other. I would not doubt if the corruption of drugs goes all the way to the president of America. I don't know but they also let drugs cross the borders and allow everyone to sell them to see where they go. Then they find the lowest cat on the chain and get him to snitch and the it ripples back up to the bigger players. That's why they wouldn't decriminalize drugs because then they wouldn't be able to get the drug users to snitch on the drug dealers. Without a snitch the police have nothing that's why they do the devilish shit that they do and it's wrong . We need Ron Paul to be president then at least we know we would have one honest old fart in the White house.  These are my views and my opinions 


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Legalize!
  Stop putting our children in prisons.

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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: veggie]
    #14086645 - 03/08/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What pisses me off most about this is that those guns are illegal in my state. I live 100 miles from the Mexican border, and they're giving automatic rifles to the criminals, and telling me that I can't own anything near that powerful.

Horse shit.


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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: ManianFH]
    #14086753 - 03/08/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mick said:
What pisses me off most about this is that those guns are illegal in my state. I live 100 miles from the Mexican border, and they're giving automatic rifles to the criminals, and telling me that I can't own anything near that powerful.

Horse shit.





That's crazy.  In Ohio you can buy assault rifles at the flea market.


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Offlineplustax
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Re: U.S. Government Helps Arm Mexican Drug Cartels [Re: amilibertine]
    #14086909 - 03/08/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)


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