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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Why fear death?
#14083124 - 03/07/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why fear death? If you truly become non-existent, you wouldn't know you're non-existent, so what's there to worry about?
And if you were non-existent before you were born, doesn't that mean there's a chance you could be born yet again? If time is infinite, think of all the chances you could exist yet again.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: giza]
#14083153 - 03/07/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why fear death?
I will wager you $10,000 I can make you answer your own question with crystal clarity in less than two weeks in my basement.
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And if you were non-existent before you were born, doesn't that mean there's a chance you could be born yet again?
No.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: giza]
#14083181 - 03/07/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I fear is this subject coming up once again without the author doing a search.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: Icelander]
#14083200 - 03/07/11 07:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your fear is well-founded.
I think we should have some M&Pers channel Mr.Mushrooms and ask him directly what the service is like on the H.M.S. Death Liner.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well if anyone is in a position to give a definitive answer to his debate on consciousness it's him.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Quote:
I will wager you $10,000 I can make you answer your own question with crystal clarity in less than two weeks in my basement.
If you're implying you'd do 'harm' to me, then wouldn't that be fear of pain? And it would kind of be the opposite, wouldn't it? I would more so welcome death if that was the situation.
Edited by giza (03/07/11 07:45 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: giza]
#14083329 - 03/07/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do a little research on the suicide rates of Jews in the WWII German Death Camps and then ask yourself why it was so low.
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Oh, I understand. One who truly does not fear death could commit suicide if need be.
But what if the person is living for something, let's say love of another.. This person can still not fear death, but just doesn't want to leave something behind.
Edited by giza (03/07/11 08:13 PM)
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: giza]
#14084117 - 03/07/11 10:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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^^You been eavesdropping on me and poid?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: giza]
#14084521 - 03/08/11 12:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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giza said: Why fear death? If you truly become non-existent, you wouldn't know you're non-existent, so what's there to worry about?
The point is that I enjoy life and don't want to die before I've done and experienced all the things I want to.
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giza said: And if you were non-existent before you were born, doesn't that mean there's a chance you could be born yet again?
There is an interesting hypothetical scenario that ups the chance of being "born again", so to speak: take the accelerating increase in technological development. Sooner or later, assuming we don't wipe ourselves out, we will build artificial intelligences capable of increasing their own intelligence. This exponential curve will rapidly reach a peak wherein literal Gods of silicon (or heck, make it nanotechnology since I imagine even the silicon medium itself will eventually become outdated) do their thing. What's to prevent them from reconstructing every human being that has lived in the past and emulating their mind in a virtual environment? Upon death what if you woke up in such an environment? To you, it would be instantaneous no matter how long the time interval between your physical death and the construction of AI and the development of these rebuilding programs... 
However, I'd rather place my bets safely and act as if this is my last life to live. If I'm wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised. What is interesting though is why am I alive here and now, in this body, as opposed to some other time and place? What's so special about this spatiotemporal region that I am conscious within?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: deCypher]
#14084592 - 03/08/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: What is interesting though is why am I alive here and now, in this body, as opposed to some other time and place? What's so special about this spatiotemporal region that I am conscious within?

I usually view the mind as an emergent property of the brain, but it is tough to fathom how each case of this mind emergence has it's own independent subjectivity.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head


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Why don't people just look at their mind for a second, look at what is going on here, rather than abstracting...
Seriously, do you think this stream of awareness constituting the mind reading these words is just an accident?
Honestly?!
I think you're disenchanted if you think so.
I mean, think of the situation. You are a being, thinking, feeling, acting, getting embarrassed, scared, hopeful, falling in love, and the very thing you are - the consciousness - is actually postulating that it itself is an accident. No one is making it think this. It's doing it itself. In some cases we goes as far as to say, it does not exist!
Doesn't that alone kind of make you think something very strange is occurring here? Something way, way beyond highschool science and online article education.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: deCypher]
#14085207 - 03/08/11 04:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: What is interesting though is why am I alive here and now, in this body, as opposed to some other time and place? What's so special about this spatiotemporal region that I am conscious within? 
I don't understand why you suspect that there is something special about the spatiotemporal region that you are conscious within..is it because you happen to be in it? If so, then why does you being in it make it so special? Is there something so special about you?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/08/11 04:35 PM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: Poid]
#14085339 - 03/08/11 06:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
deCypher said: What is interesting though is why am I alive here and now, in this body, as opposed to some other time and place? What's so special about this spatiotemporal region that I am conscious within? 
I don't understand why you suspect that there is something special about the spatiotemporal that you are conscious within..is it because you happen to be in it?
Yes, that's what I said.
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Poid said: If so, then why does you being in it make it so special?
Because of the seemingly arbitrary nature of it: why this region as opposed to another one. Also because we're talking about MY subjective consciousness/experience here as opposed to someone else's; my own consciousness is inherently special to me because it's my own as opposed to someone else's.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: deCypher]
#14087696 - 03/08/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
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Poid said: If so, then why does you being in it make it so special?
Because of the seemingly arbitrary nature of it: why this region as opposed to another one. Also because we're talking about MY subjective consciousness/experience here as opposed to someone else's; my own consciousness is inherently special to me because it's my own as opposed to someone else's.
So you're saying that the spatiotemporal region that you are conscious within is merely subjectively special to you, but not objectively special?
Is so, then why do you ask "What's so special about this spatiotemporal region that I am conscious within?", if you yourself already know that it's special to you because your own consciousness (which is inherently special to you) exists in it?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: Poid]
#14088859 - 03/08/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I dunno about the objective/subjective distinction that you're talking about, but I'm asking the question just because it seems odd that I exist in 2011 as opposed to, say, the Middle Ages. 
Also:
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: deCypher]
#14088977 - 03/08/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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deCypher said: I dunno about the objective/subjective distinction that you're talking about...
You said "we're talking about MY subjective consciousness/experience", which means we're not asking about what's objectively special (if anything) about the spatiotemporal region that you are conscious within, rather, we're asking about why it's so special to you (i.e. subjectively).
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deCypher said: ...but I'm asking the question just because it seems odd that I exist in 2011 as opposed to, say, the Middle Ages. 
I'm not sure why that seems odd to you; if you were born in the Middle Ages, would you think it odd that you exist in the Middle Ages, and not in 2011?
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deCypher said: Also: 
No need to rub it in my face like that.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: Poid]
#14088995 - 03/08/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
deCypher said: ...but I'm asking the question just because it seems odd that I exist in 2011 as opposed to, say, the Middle Ages. 
I'm not sure why that seems odd to you; if you were born in the Middle Ages, would you think it odd that you exist in the Middle Ages, and not in 2011?
Yes. The selection of time to be born and live in (even though it's not really a selection at all AFAIK) seems inexplicable.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: deCypher]
#14089062 - 03/08/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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How is it any more inexplicable than the "selection" of time for the occurrence of any other event?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why fear death? [Re: Poid]
#14089072 - 03/08/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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What do you mean? How is it not?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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