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AlphaFalfa
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If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics......
#14080452 - 03/07/11 11:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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At what point if any, would you be willing to promote a military intervention?
I ask this to those who say we should allow them to deal with their own political problems on their own for the most part.
I think the strongest nations of the world should invade and intervene ASAP because the global economy is already weak and is still in recovery. If high oil prices ensue for longer than a month, it will trigger a downturn of economic growth and spur the potential negative feed back loops and cycles that cause for recessions.
I really think stability is crucial and one of the biggest components of our economy is consumer/investor confidence.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14080473 - 03/07/11 11:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's what I think. I think you should enlist pronto, before you choose to put other men in harms way for your personal desires.
Enlist dude. Make it happen.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14080496 - 03/07/11 11:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Here's what I think. I think you should enlist pronto, before you choose to put other men in harms way for your personal desires.
Enlist dude. Make it happen.
I am lucky enough not to have to enlist and to be able to use my brain and communication skills to make a decent living.
Also, I have serious knee, back and kneck injuries that would not allow me to become a soldier.
I also cannot be blamed for the problems that are occurring in the middle east. If I had it my way, I would promote peace but clearly due to our stupid dependency on oil, we have to act soon in my POV.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14080616 - 03/07/11 12:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Act soon to do what. That oil doesn't belong to us. Do you suggest we steal it?
How would you like it if I came into your house and stole shit because I wanted it so I could party hardy or even care for my tribe?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ChuangTzu
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14080735 - 03/07/11 12:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Somehow I doubt that intervening and installing another corrupt government is going to lead to much stability. See Iraq or Afghanistan if you have trouble seeing that...
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ScavengerType


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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14081327 - 03/07/11 02:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is quite probable that a democratically elected government would reduce the amount of oil exported.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14081384 - 03/07/11 02:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Act soon to do what. That oil doesn't belong to us. Do you suggest we steal it?
How would you like it if I came into your house and stole shit because I wanted it so I could party hardy or even care for my tribe?
it doesn't belong to us, but neither does our consumption of the oil, belong to them. Without us, their economy would explode.
Go figure.
its not a simple as this is theirs and this is ours.
We are living in an interdependent world, there is limitations to the concept of ownership when talking geopolitical nonsense.
its far better than allowing for what is going on in lybia. There is a bloody civil war there now. We could easily end it by overthrowing the government.
The people want democracy, we can give it to them even if it is still largely corrupt.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14081418 - 03/07/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said: Somehow I doubt that intervening and installing another corrupt government is going to lead to much stability. See Iraq or Afghanistan if you have trouble seeing that...
So what? Not intervening still seems to cause even more problems.
Look at libya for example.
You won't be to eager to say that if you see yourself potentially loosing work because of it.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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ChuangTzu
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14081485 - 03/07/11 02:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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If the Libyan people resolve the conflict without what they perceive as external manipulation of events, then there is a high chance of stability in the region soon. If the Libyan people believe that the US or any other outside government interfered with things to the extent seen in so many other post-invasion regimes around the world, they will be very likely to be unhappy with the new regime and instability for a long, long period is likely.
My point being that your proposed actions would be likely to have the opposite of the intended consequences.
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14081576 - 03/07/11 02:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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but neither does our consumption of the oil, belong to them.
What the hell does that mean? I think your intent is clear. If I can't get my oil at the price I want I'll take it and pretend I'm giving democracy to the people I'm stealing from.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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amilibertine
It’s good to be back!



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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14081590 - 03/07/11 03:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said:My point being that your proposed actions would be likely to have the opposite of the intended consequences.
That's American foreign policy in a nutshell. Especially in the Middle East.
Besides, the economy isn't recovering anyway.
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14081599 - 03/07/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said: If the Libyan people resolve the conflict without what they perceive as external manipulation of events, then there is a high chance of stability in the region soon. If the Libyan people believe that the US or any other outside government interfered with things to the extent seen in so many other post-invasion regimes around the world, they will be very likely to be unhappy with the new regime and instability for a long, long period is likely.
My point being that your proposed actions would be likely to have the opposite of the intended consequences.
Okay.
Now prove it.

This is great case oversimplication of complicated events and variables.
Prove that they would be more unhappy if we intervened?
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14081636 - 03/07/11 03:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Prove you would be more unhappy if Russia, China, Korea, intervened in your life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14081639 - 03/07/11 03:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: but neither does our consumption of the oil, belong to them.
What the hell does that mean? I think your intent is clear. If I can't get my oil at the price I want I'll take it and pretend I'm giving democracy to the people I'm stealing from.
I guesse you probally never studied economics?
It simple, rather simple look at a complicated process but here it is;
Oil = resource nessecary for the production of goods/services.
China/India/USA/Japan/All other major industrialized produce products from oil.
USA/Europe consume over 80% of the goods/services.
NOW, decrease the extent to which ANY ONE OF THOSE PARTS OF OUR OIL DEPENDENT ECONOMY exists as AND PRESTO@!!!!!
Economic downturn - prices of food go up, jobs get slashed, wages get slashed, goods/services get slashed, investment drops, interest rates go up!!!
Its really not complicated and no there is no way around it.
IN SHORT.
The middle east could have more oil than it could possibly ever need a trillion times over but without our consumption of it and the infrastructure nessecary to create products to consume it as well, their economy is worth the sand on the bottom of their sandals.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14081646 - 03/07/11 03:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Prove you would be more unhappy if Russia, China, Korea, intervened in your life.

Your far to emotional bud. I am not promoting war. I am asking what it would take to create stability in the middle east(the opposite of war) and looking particularly what I thought would be a contreversial yet very realisitic option to create future stability.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14081649 - 03/07/11 03:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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So? They are able to decide what to do with their resources without you threatening to invade. You don't give a flying fuck about them or what happens to them. What you care about is your own well being and gain.
Nothing new about that but I don't respect anyone who won't own it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: amilibertine]
#14081659 - 03/07/11 03:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
amilibertine said:
Quote:
ChuangTzu said:My point being that your proposed actions would be likely to have the opposite of the intended consequences.
That's American foreign policy in a nutshell. Especially in the Middle East.
Besides, the economy isn't recovering anyway.
The economy was always fundamentally flawed and due for a collapse. I would rather the collapse be further into the future than now.
What kind of person wouldn't want that?
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#14081701 - 03/07/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Me, I'm just fine with the way things are. I was just fine when they (someone) predicted economic dooms day just about every year of my adult life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Shins
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Icelander]
#14081740 - 03/07/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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"giving democracy"
AKA dropping bombs.
1. The USA itself is framed as a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
2. democracy = 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
3. USA should have perfected REAL democracy in it's own country before it can even attempt to spread it elsewhere.
For someone sooooooooo interested in environmentalism, you're sure a real pundit for Big Oil.
High oil prices will force innovations in alternative energy.
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Icelander
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Re: If the economy is sent into a recession due to middle eastern politics...... [Re: Shins]
#14081752 - 03/07/11 03:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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My bloody rich, totally republican sister, said the same thing to me today.
High oil prices will force innovations in alternative energy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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