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Jews speaking out against Zionism
    #14079822 -

Just curious of others thoughts on this issue.  Many times when criticism of Israel is brought up, I see the anti-semite card appear immediately "you hate jews" "you nazi" etc.  However there are many jews who are speaking out against zionism and the violence Israel is promoting against muslim nations.

here is one example:

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Grav] * 1
    #14080077 -

Is that a clip from borat?

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Stein]
    #14081342 -

This is not an uncommon opinion in Israel, though you wouldn't know it from looking at their government or media. The Zionist rhetoric is to call these people self-hating Jews, but this is as ridiculous as the anti-Semite card.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14081661 -

ScavengerType said:
This is not an uncommon opinion in Israel, though you wouldn't know it from looking at their government or media. The Zionist rhetoric is to call these people self-hating Jews, but this is as ridiculous as the anti-Semite card.


Whoa whoa whoa, just because you can find some Jews in Israel who are not Zionist does not come close to establishing that it is common.  It most certainly is not any more common than Fred Phelps is here.  (laughing at Icelander right now).  But there is certainly no prejudicial equivalence regarding that and anti-semitism.  There are lots of self hating Jews.  Woody Allen comes immediately to mind.  He's made a career out of self hatred.


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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14081738 -

Fred?  I think my dad and his cronies send him money.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Icelander]
    #14081799 -

Icelander said:
Fred?  I think my dad and his cronies send him money.


No wonder you have issues.


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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14081880 -

Yeah.  Good thing I have money and issues or I'd be in trouble. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Icelander]
    #14081922 -

Icelander said:
Yeah.  Good thing I have money and issues or I'd be in trouble. :lol:


Single, no kids and 55 years old you fucking oughta have money left.


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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14082114 -

Plenty, but actually i'm 58 in April.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Icelander]
    #14082179 -

One thing about Zionism i find really strange is the fact that the modern Zionist movement is almost an exclusively Ashkanazi one.

That is, European Jewish converts, with no blood ties to the original Jews of ancient Israel or Jacob think they have some kind of right to occupy Israel.


Apparently there are also certain religious requirements that need to be met which haven't before the Jews can return to Israel according to their own religion.


I maintain that the Zionist movement is a political one, not so much a religious one.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Shins]
    #14082186 -

Almost all religion is a screen for politics imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Icelander]
    #14082366 -

Everything is political.


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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14082421 -

true dat


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: Icelander]
    #14084572 -

.


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“sharing information, replicating and elaborating intellectuality invokes evolution which perpetuates onto infinity”



▼  ▼

▼


Edited by Prisoner#1 (03/08/11 06:26 AM)

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Re: Jews speaking out against Zionism [Re: lysergicasians]
    #14091036 -

I don't think jews immediatly use the anti-semitic card as a socio-cultural value, but i think that there is inevitably in all society a climate of anti-zionism or pro-israel sentiment. European countries are usually anti-zionist for example. the problem with the anti-semitic card as a sociocultural phenomenon is that they live in the same society as we do and their kids either go to the same public school or sometime private jewish schools so they see the holocaust through the same glass as we do yet different due to being a cousin of the bear jew.

part of antisemitism stems from the fact that nowdays jews are not the jews of the old testament and are then called phony and that for this reason they do not deserve to exist or that their culture is not worthy of preservation. A zionist for example, could be considered phony person of jewish origin for 2 reason:

1. The movement itself comes from the ashkenazim atheist or the true self-loathing jew like theodore herzl, which pleaded to convert in mass the jews so that they may gain the values of the enlightenment at times and attacked his own community at the side of antisemites at another time. Thus not being a true religious follower may ostracise you from your own community. At the same time, nowdays jews may even have a hard time being against israel and claim to be jewish.

2.Another part of Antisemitism is the mockery of Jewish nationalism, Jews do not fight but in reality, The commandment that jews have to follow are complex and unlike zoroastrianism they are binding. and the orthodox Jews are a good portion of the true religious settlers in occupied territories. what is actually strong in any population is the faithful as opposed to those who do things for logic,reason and material gain, for example, many are settlers because of the money given by the state in order to colonize those areas.

Now for all those reasons i find that Actual real jews like Naturei karta are dismissed as self-loathing jew, so according to some interpretation they are and according to others they are not. the most ironic part is that naturei karta is controversial for associating with holocaust deniers and even david duke, or ahmadinejad.

Edited by communeart (03/09/11 06:12 AM)

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