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OrgoneConclusion
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"The drug that killed my sister..."
#14079085 - 03/07/11 12:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some woman on a rant said this as if the sister had no responsibility for that which she voluntarily ingested.
If a drunk driver killed my sister, should I rant about the fact that it was a Toyota Camry he was driving?
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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That depends, which options did he get on it?
Aside from that I would blame: The government, schools, teachers, his parents, his friends, Toyota, the plant and which the car was produced, etc and probably even her for standing in the way of his car. But blame him? that's just ridiculous and I honestly don't understand why you would even think of doing that; is it because you're a senile old man or what?
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1tokeovrtheline
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what drug was it? I mean if it was crystal meth that's a little different than shrooms or something... Either way though I still get your point, and agree. I mean look at all the dumbass dangerous crazy shit you can do that's legal, and then drugs are illegal?.....wtf, it just doesn't make sense. I'm pretty certain the way to push for legalization and a reasonable approach to this whole mess though is to push for research and laws based on that research, cuz you know that if enough research from actual universities and stuff is done then more people will know the truth about it. As it is its just the word of the government versus the word of a "bunch of druggies"
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: learningtofly]
#14079125 - 03/07/11 12:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Cruise control, remote start - the works! But what kind of a real man drives a Camry?
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Quote:
1tokeovrtheline said: what drug was it? I mean if it was crystal meth that's a little different than shrooms or something... Either way though I still get your point, and agree. I mean look at all the dumbass dangerous crazy shit you can do that's legal, and then drugs are illegal?.....wtf, it just doesn't make sense. I'm pretty certain the way to push for legalization and a reasonable approach to this whole mess though is to push for research and laws based on that research, cuz you know that if enough research from actual universities and stuff is done then more people will know the truth about it. As it is its just the word of the government versus the word of a "bunch of druggies"
Amazingly that has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: learningtofly]
#14079134 - 03/07/11 12:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Cruise control, remote start - the works! But what kind of a real man drives a Camry?
You're right, that doesn't add up. Perhaps he was a fake man or a woman in disguise?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
what drug was it? I mean if it was crystal meth that's a little different than shrooms or something...
Because?
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: learningtofly]
#14079169 - 03/07/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh did she say "the drug that killed my sister" as in alcohol from a drunk driver? I thought he was merely using that as an unrelated example. In that case yeah, it was a dumbass that killed her
That is sad though. I think there should be some sort of free service that helps people get home if they are drunk, because we spend so much time and effort telling people to not drink and drive, yet we do nothing about the obvious problem-somebody's at the bar or a party and they're broke (probably from spending so fuckin much at the bar!) or they need their car to get to work in to morning or whatever so they drive home. You do something to take care of that, for free, and it would barely be an issue I think
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: learningtofly]
#14079171 - 03/07/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Cruise control, remote start - the works! But what kind of a real man drives a Camry?
You're right, that doesn't add up. Perhaps he was a fake man or a woman in disguise?
You are obviously a serious student of Occam.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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I asked prof. Occam and he agreed it was probably a blow-up doll.
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



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because an addictive drug does pull you in to use it again, so in twisted logic you could say the addictive nature of it "caused" a problem, which I don't agree with but I would understand more than something like mushrooms which wouldn't do shit. Oh and of course you could OD which would still be your fault, but people would love to blame the drug
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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mushiepussy

Registered: 02/06/11
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Toyotas have had faulty gas pedals, so maybe.
On a side note, they should offer drunk driving classes. your never gonna get people to stop driving drunk, so why not just teach them how? I think it's time people learned the finer points of swurvin'.
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Diploid
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Registered: 01/09/03
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because an addictive drug does pull you in to use it again
Except meth is not physically addictive as you seem to think.
And "psychological addiction" is a bullshit propaganda term created to pathologize certain perfectly reasonable desires.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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1tokeovrtheline
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14079677 - 03/07/11 05:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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whatever dude, my point is just that all drugs aren't created equal, and I just hate to see meth or coke/crack, heroin, etc bunched in with stuff like weed and shrooms
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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Diploid
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Why? Because you like weed and shrooms?
Some people like meth and crack. I don't see why your drug preferences are any better than anyone else's.
At the end of the day, we are all responsible for the consequences of our actions.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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1tokeovrtheline
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid] 1
#14079693 - 03/07/11 05:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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no, that's exactly what I was not trying to say. The thing is that coke/crack floods dopamine receptors so much they spill over and it creates an abnormal low level of them afterwards, and thus physical addiction. Meth completely flushes out all the dopamine in the receptor and causes a pretty bad physical addiction, its a scientific fact. I've had friends who flipped the fuck out and really had issues with their lives because of meth and coke, etc. Maybe you can do them responsibly or something, but there is a limit-you can OD and you CAN get physically addicted, whereas drugs like shrooms and weed haven't killed anybody and nobody's ever been physically addicted to them. So to me they are not on the same level.
If you want to do them and you think that "class" or whatever you want to call it of drugs should be legal, then I respect your view on the grounds of personal freedom and everything, but campaigning for weed or shrooms to be legalized is not the same argument as crack or meth, because in the real world, pragmatically politicians don't give a fuck about your rights, they care about getting re-elected and they aren't going to get re-elected if they push to legalize meth, but it is at the point where they can get substantial support while campaigning for weed or even shrooms (I believe shrooms are now legal to grow for personal use in new mexico right? idk, that's what I heard). And seriously to lump your drugs of choice in with drugs that effect different receptors, act differently on the brain, cause a different experience, etc is just selfish
My drug choices aren't necessarily "better" and I don't think I'm above you or anything like that, but they are DIFFERENT, and shouldn't be grouped together, its not the same argument, even if my reasoning is mostly pragmatic
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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Diploid
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Meth completely flushes out all the dopamine in the receptor and causes a pretty bad physical addiction, its a scientific fact.
It's really depressing that the drug war propaganda system is so effective that even people who fancy themselves well-informed on the issue spew this misinformation like good obedient sheeple.
Meth is not physically addicting. You have been misinformed.
The Physician's Desk Reference (the PDR) is the gold standard of prescribing information for doctors and other clinicians. It is where doctors go to look up information about the US Pharmacopoeia as approved by the FDA.
Here is an excerpt of the prescribing information for methamphetamine given to doctors by the pharmaceutical company that makes it.
DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE
Controlled Substance: DESOXYN tablets are subject to control under DEA schedule II.
Abuse: Methamphetamine has been extensively abused. Tolerance, extreme psychological dependence, and severe social disability have occurred. There are reports of patients who have increased the dosage to many times that recommended.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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durantz
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14080064 - 03/07/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes Diploid is right.
What I find curious is why psychedelics are neither physically or psychologically addictive...
They truly do seem to have no negative side... other than destroying your mind. but that might not be a bad thing either.
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Icelander
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14080072 - 03/07/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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IMO physical dependency is the tip o the ice burg compared to psychological dependency.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Icelander]
#14080177 - 03/07/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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IMO physical dependency is the tip o the ice burg compared to psychological dependency.
Physical withdrawal is NOTHING like a craving, no matter how strong the craving.
I'm intensely curious. There's almost nothing I won't try. So a few years ago I decided to dip my toe in that pond to see what's there. It was a mistake.
Physical heroin withdrawal is an exquisite form of hell that no one who hasn't been there could understand. It almost ruined me and I'm no wimp. That span of time stands out starkly as the single most horrific experience of my life, and my ride was relatively mild.
It gave me a healthy respect for physical addiction, an understanding that a psychological craving is nothing by comparison, and a deep empathy for the suffering of physical addicts.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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durantz
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14080213 - 03/07/11 09:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Diploid what is your advice on cocaine? I have a friend who wants to try but I am afraid he will go through what you did with heroin...
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Icelander
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14080278 - 03/07/11 10:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: IMO physical dependency is the tip o the ice burg compared to psychological dependency.
Physical withdrawal is NOTHING like a craving, no matter how strong the craving.
I'm intensely curious. There's almost nothing I won't try. So a few years ago I decided to dip my toe in that pond to see what's there. It was a mistake.
Physical heroin withdrawal is an exquisite form of hell that no one who hasn't been there could understand. It almost ruined me and I'm no wimp. That span of time stands out starkly as the single most horrific experience of my life, and my ride was relatively mild.
It gave me a healthy respect for physical addiction, an understanding that a psychological craving is nothing by comparison, and a deep empathy for the suffering of physical addicts.
OK maybe I'm wrong here but you need to answer this to my satisfaction. Why, once someone has gone through this hell of withdrawal would they ever get hooked again? IMO the psychological need for relief wins in the end.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Diploid]
#14080524 - 03/07/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: IMO physical dependency is the tip o the ice burg compared to psychological dependency.
Physical withdrawal is NOTHING like a craving, no matter how strong the craving.
I'm intensely curious. There's almost nothing I won't try. So a few years ago I decided to dip my toe in that pond to see what's there. It was a mistake.
Physical heroin withdrawal is an exquisite form of hell that no one who hasn't been there could understand. It almost ruined me and I'm no wimp. That span of time stands out starkly as the single most horrific experience of my life, and my ride was relatively mild.
It gave me a healthy respect for physical addiction, an understanding that a psychological craving is nothing by comparison, and a deep empathy for the suffering of physical addicts.
Cheetohs? Physically or psychologically addicting?
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Icelander]
#14080531 - 03/07/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why, once someone has gone through this hell of withdrawal would they ever get hooked again?
Something to do?
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R2-D2
horseradish



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Why, once someone has gone through this hell of withdrawal would they ever get hooked again?
Something to do? 
Both for shits and for giggles!
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: Icelander]
#14081650 - 03/07/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Physical heroin withdrawal is an exquisite form of hell that no one who hasn't been there could understand.
QFT. I understand that benzo W/Ds arguably rival those of heroin but having experienced the latter I plan to indefinitely avoid the former. 
Quote:
Icelander said: Why, once someone has gone through this hell of withdrawal would they ever get hooked again?
At least in my personal experience I thought I could handle occasional use without getting to the frequency of use that involves physical W/Ds upon stopping.
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful



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Re: "The drug that killed my sister..." [Re: deCypher]
#14083333 - 03/07/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I won't try to say at all that I know heroin withdrawal, not even close. Once I did get into vicodin enough that I took maybe about 12 daily (6 at a time) and even just that smaller withdrawal was horrible enough that I knew I never wanted to experience or even imagine a heroin withdrawal
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Music, business as usual Mi' spliff and Guiness as usual Highgrade we puffin as usual Fight down the system as usual The system fight we down as usual The cops dem a watch we as usual And a we a watch the cops as usual
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