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InvisibleCups
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Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
Which is more beneficial...
    #14078105 - 03/06/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?


--------------------
What's up everybody?!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups] * 1
    #14078201 - 03/06/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

IMO it's to know who and what you are.  Then one can proceed in a realistic fashion.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineManyAk
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Icelander]
    #14078240 - 03/06/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd say it's even more beneficial to know you are who you want to be.


--------------------
                                  we are all luminous beings
why then do we not appear before each other radiant in our illumination


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: ManyAk]
    #14078283 - 03/06/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ManyAk said:
I'd say it's even more beneficial to know you are who you want to be.




lawlz this sounds about right :wink: success!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Strumpling]
    #14078348 - 03/06/11 10:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That would be nice.  I wonder how many people ever get there without completely acquiescing to life? 

Of course a buddhist would tell you that's the point, but buddhist dudes didn't build the space shuttle did they? :wink:


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What's up everybody?!


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
    #14078788 - 03/06/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Kickle]
    #14078854 - 03/06/11 11:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.




Yeah it doesn't matter how far out into space we go, people will always still want to "get away" :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Kickle]
    #14078884 - 03/06/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.




Man... im glad you said that. The past year all I've wanted to
do is just move away, but now I'm thinking that I just don't
want to worry about life. However, the way American life revolves around working just to pay your bills and buy stuff may have
something to do with my longing to leave this country.

As to the OP, both, but in that order.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
    #14079290 - 03/07/11 01:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

To strip the layers and reconnect with your natural and true self is the best goal a human can have within modern society IMO.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14079321 - 03/07/11 01:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
To strip the layers and reconnect with your natural and true self is the best goal a human can have within modern society IMO.




you buddhist?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
    #14079573 - 03/07/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
to know "who" you want to be?




This.  Knowing yourself might be a prerequisite to this, but it's more valuable to have an ideal to work towards IMO.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14079655 - 03/07/11 05:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, just someone who is dissatisfied with his cultural conditioning and wishes to break as much of it down as possible, I have had some success so I am convinced that it may be possible at least on some level. IMO calling yourself a "buddhist" and ascribing to the belief system is just another false layer over the self, to get to what you really are you need to burn all beliefs and ego.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Cups]
    #14081854 - 03/07/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?




To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.


--------------------


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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14081951 - 03/07/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
No, just someone who is dissatisfied with his cultural conditioning and wishes to break as much of it down as possible, I have had some success so I am convinced that it may be possible at least on some level. IMO calling yourself a "buddhist" and ascribing to the belief system is just another false layer over the self, to get to what you really are you need to burn all beliefs and ego.




Cool, I agree. I was just wondering because buddhism is similar
to these views. I enjoy the dharma, but I consider myself atheist.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: [Re: Chronic7]
    #14081990 - 03/07/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Cups said:
Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?




To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.




You don't want to improve yourself at all?  No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleAmbrella
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Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 70
Re: [Re: deCypher]
    #14082078 - 03/07/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Everyday, I find out more about myself and who I am. Everyday, I leave something of who I was behind with yesterday.

I feel that "who I am" does not have a strictly defined definition. This belief has given me freedom to change what needs to change to meet the ever-changing challenges in my life. I used to get all attached to an ideal picture of my identity, and I found that I created too much stress trying to match up to that definition.

I'd much rather go with the flow...


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: deCypher]
    #14084948 - 03/08/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Cups said:
Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?




To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.




You don't want to improve yourself at all?  No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?




If you recognize what you essentially are it is not trying to get anywhere, do anything, or become anything other than what it already is effortlessly. That's not saying that living from this place of total peace nothing gets done, quite the contrary, more gets done, more efficiently, as the imaginary middle man has vanished

Maybe its only a subtle arrogance, but i still feel its an arrogance, or maybe just an innocent ignorance to feel 'I am living my life' as it would be more correct to say 'life is being lived' or just 'life is' as i have yet to see any evidence from anyone of an actual entity called 'I' that control their life


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (03/08/11 06:25 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
    #14085354 - 03/08/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, more in line with the OP, if your looking for a benefit then knowing what you want to be is much more beneficial.

If you are not bothered about benefit & only want to deeply know the truth of existence, then know what you are.


--------------------


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Chronic7]
    #14085365 - 03/08/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Cups said:
Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?




To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.




You don't want to improve yourself at all?  No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?




Change & growth is something that naturally happens by itself but what i really am doesn't change or grow as it's always the same me




Yes, you will always be you, but this you is constantly changing at the same time (hence the problem of philosophical identity).  I'm talking about the you that has shifting desires, motivations, thoughts, emotions, feelings, etcetera... the you that can visualize an ideal you and work towards getting there.  Ultimately I feel you're right in that free will is an illusion but we still act as if it's not; for example you don't just sit apathetically on your couch and literally do nothing for years while blaming your laziness on destiny--you still do do things even if later reflection may make it clear that perhaps these things were done beyond the imaginary free will of a "doer".  At any rate my point is that you must still hold an idea of a more-perfected you (a 'you' in the sense of the constantly changing desires, motivations, ...) and your actions are continually modified to attune yourself towards this you.  If not then self-improvement cannot exist.  :shrug:

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Actually, more in line with the OP, if your looking for a benefit then knowing what you want to be is much more beneficial.

If you are not bothered about benefit & only want to deeply know the truth of existence, then know what you are.




Isn't deeply knowing the truth of existence a benefit to work towards?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: deCypher] * 2
    #14085444 - 03/08/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree with what your saying & im glad you clearly see what i was saying aswell... i do work to improvement, i exercise a fair amount, eat pretty healthy, im currently looking to leave a stale job for a fresh & better paid one so i can go on more cool holidays, meet new people etc... i just find that paradoxically focusing on the unchanging Self brings rapid change in the life of the changeful self.

I feel that understanding the truth/reality/yourself does bring huge benefits, peace, bliss, freedom, non-attachment, but also at the same time the mind that is always seeking to derive benefit can possibly stand in the way of that realization. If the desire to personally gain something is really solid it can block off realization of the formless.


--------------------


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: [Re: deCypher]
    #14085447 - 03/08/11 07:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Cups said:
Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?




To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.




You don't want to improve yourself at all?  No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?




I don't know about chronic but I feel that external objectives are empty of real value and the only reason to take up any practice is to deepen insight and know the self so one can find intensify the sensual experience of reality. If you feel you have gone as deep into awakening as is possible or you are fully awake then you might take up something else but untill then nothing else is worth it because the reward pales in value compared to the infinite. Just a personal thing and I may well find I'm wrong in the future or that it is not acheivable. I'm willing to take that risk though.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14085481 - 03/08/11 07:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
If you feel you have gone as deep into awakening as is possible or you are fully awake then you might take up something else but untill then nothing else is worth it because the reward pales in value compared to the infinite.




Its pretty awesome how the once mundane can later be seen to be the miraculous.

It's like first there's 'the falling away of worldly things' where you lose interest in everything, it all seems irrelevant & meaningless in comparison to Self realization, then you finally find your Self/Infinity and then all those little things that seemed meaningless are seen to be reflections of that one reality.

That's where the real freedom is, not freedom from living in the world but freedom whilst living in the world.


--------------------


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: [Re: Chronic7]
    #14085487 - 03/08/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That doesn't surprise me but I'm at that first bit. :lol:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14085508 - 03/08/11 07:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Its good man, as long as you know its something to welcome, it happened to me when i didn't know anything about it being a common part of realizing a deeper reality, i just woke up one day & lost interest in everything, i remember sitting on the floor of bedroom totally defeated & energyless saying out loud to myself 'what's happening to me? im losing interest in everything' it was pretty scary, looking back though it was pretty beautiful & totally necessary to really realize what i did want, total peace & nothing less.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: [Re: Grapefruit] * 1
    #14085518 - 03/08/11 07:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know about chronic but I feel that external objectives are empty of real value

Then imo down the road you'll find out you missed out on many of the good and fun and adventurous things in life when you had the energy of youth to make them happen for a vain quest.

You can report back when you're an old man.:sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCups
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Re: [Re: Icelander]
    #14085540 - 03/08/11 08:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do all those memories really help on those dark night of the soul type days and weeks Icelander?


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What's up everybody?!


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Icelander]
    #14085551 - 03/08/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree to an extent but if Grapefruit rejects the world & truly finds the Self he will not regret it in anyway IMO, as IME it is the greatest possible experience in a human body. Bliss beyond measure, if you really find your way to meditate into it then it's simply incomparable to any other joy. If you lived in union with this bliss i don't feel you would look back on your life feeling that you somehow missed out on something

But yeah, we shall see, its a shame when im 50 you might not be around for me to prove you wrong :tongue:


--------------------


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: [Re: Icelander]
    #14085552 - 03/08/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the case as I said. All someone can do is take their chips, pick up their hand and throw their cards on the table. I don't see how I can really enjoy anything if I can't be ok with sitting still though. And with my body as fucked due as it is at the moment (due to my dabblings with internal things) it's not as if I have any of that mythological "energy of youth" or can even do anything very physical.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Chronic7]
    #14085579 - 03/08/11 08:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:

But yeah, we shall see, its a shame when im 50 you might not be around for me to prove you wrong :tongue:




Actually i only have another 22 years... gonna stick around?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: [Re: Cups]
    #14085582 - 03/08/11 08:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cups said:
Do all those memories really help on those dark night of the soul type days and weeks Icelander?






Yeah they do. As much as anything can.  I can often put myself back there and relive it to some degree.  I hope to head out as soon as the weather turns and make a few more before it's all over.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14085601 - 03/08/11 08:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the case as I said. All someone can do is take their chips, pick up their hand and throw their cards on the table. I don't see how I can really enjoy anything if I can't be ok with sitting still though. And with my body as fucked due as it is at the moment (due to my dabblings with internal things) it's not as if I have any of that mythological "energy of youth" or can even do anything very physical.




I'm sorry to hear you're ill.  Have you tried Oi Gong to restore your energy. It takes awhile of consistant practice but it really helps me. And I only stand in one position so it's not hard to learn and you don't have to move a muscle.

But my position is why not explore both.  Objective reality and the inner landscape. That's how I approached it. Now, at 58 I'm grateful most for all my time exploring solo in the desert.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: [Re: Icelander]
    #14085870 - 03/08/11 09:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have tried QiGong but have never managed to keep it up for more than a couple of months.

I certaintly wanna go and hike in places once I've managed to restore my health right now a pack is too painful.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleirie.one
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Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 157
Re: [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14087669 - 03/08/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They are both of equal importance as I see it. Who you are now is a reflection of who you once wanted to be, which places greater value on who you want to be in the present. While living in the present is essential to a fulfilling life, moving towards a goal (who you want to be) is part of who you are now. I strive for balance of both and not focusing too much on who I want to be, not placing expectations on myself (no expectations means no failing), and enjoying who I presently am.


--------------------
gettin' high to balance out the lows


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: [Re: irie.one]
    #14087907 - 03/08/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Who are you presently?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: [Re: Kickle]
    #14090950 - 03/09/11 05:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

'no matter where you go you are what you are playa
and you can try to change but that's just the top layer
man you was who you was 'fore you got here'

Jigga Man


--------------------


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Invisibleirie.one
I Respect I Eternally
Male


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 157
Re: [Re: Chronic7]
    #14090964 - 03/09/11 05:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
'no matter where you go you are what you are playa
and you can try to change but that's just the top layer
man you was who you was 'fore you got here'

Jigga Man



Nothing but wisdom from Brooklyn's finest rapper :rolleyes:.


--------------------
gettin' high to balance out the lows


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: [Re: irie.one]
    #14123617 - 03/15/11 03:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what do I want to do and what are some ways I could start going about doing that?

who gives a fuck who I am? what am I doing? rinse repeat.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (03/15/11 03:32 AM)


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* when does the present become the past?
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BleaK 3,092 42 10/20/05 11:30 PM
by redgreenvines
* How much does the future effect the past and present. Droz 792 3 09/19/06 03:40 PM
by TheGus
* the significance of the present human incarnation dattaswami 385 0 03/06/06 08:56 AM
by dattaswami

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