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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Which is more beneficial...
#14078105 - 03/06/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups] 1
#14078201 - 03/06/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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IMO it's to know who and what you are. Then one can proceed in a realistic fashion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ManyAk
Not A Shitgiver



Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 1,081
Loc: Somewhere but not here
Last seen: 25 days, 17 hours
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Icelander]
#14078240 - 03/06/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd say it's even more beneficial to know you are who you want to be.
-------------------- we are all luminous beings why then do we not appear before each other radiant in our illumination
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: ManyAk]
#14078283 - 03/06/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ManyAk said: I'd say it's even more beneficial to know you are who you want to be.
lawlz this sounds about right success!
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Cups
technically "here"


Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Strumpling]
#14078348 - 03/06/11 10:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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That would be nice. I wonder how many people ever get there without completely acquiescing to life?
Of course a buddhist would tell you that's the point, but buddhist dudes didn't build the space shuttle did they?
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 22 minutes, 23 seconds
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
#14078788 - 03/06/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Kickle]
#14078854 - 03/06/11 11:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.
Yeah it doesn't matter how far out into space we go, people will always still want to "get away"
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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mushiepussy

Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Kickle]
#14078884 - 03/06/11 11:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: well what's the point when you want to escape life all together and not just this world? People been trying to travel someplace that will scratch that itch once and for all for a long time.
Man... im glad you said that. The past year all I've wanted to do is just move away, but now I'm thinking that I just don't want to worry about life. However, the way American life revolves around working just to pay your bills and buy stuff may have something to do with my longing to leave this country.
As to the OP, both, but in that order.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
#14079290 - 03/07/11 01:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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To strip the layers and reconnect with your natural and true self is the best goal a human can have within modern society IMO.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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mushiepussy

Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Grapefruit]
#14079321 - 03/07/11 01:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: To strip the layers and reconnect with your natural and true self is the best goal a human can have within modern society IMO.
you buddhist?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
#14079573 - 03/07/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said: to know "who" you want to be?
This. Knowing yourself might be a prerequisite to this, but it's more valuable to have an ideal to work towards IMO.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: mushiepussy]
#14079655 - 03/07/11 05:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, just someone who is dissatisfied with his cultural conditioning and wishes to break as much of it down as possible, I have had some success so I am convinced that it may be possible at least on some level. IMO calling yourself a "buddhist" and ascribing to the belief system is just another false layer over the self, to get to what you really are you need to burn all beliefs and ego.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: [Re: Cups]
#14081854 - 03/07/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cups said: Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?
To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.
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mushiepussy

Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
Loc:
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Grapefruit]
#14081951 - 03/07/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: No, just someone who is dissatisfied with his cultural conditioning and wishes to break as much of it down as possible, I have had some success so I am convinced that it may be possible at least on some level. IMO calling yourself a "buddhist" and ascribing to the belief system is just another false layer over the self, to get to what you really are you need to burn all beliefs and ego.
Cool, I agree. I was just wondering because buddhism is similar to these views. I enjoy the dharma, but I consider myself atheist.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Cups said: Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?
To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.
You don't want to improve yourself at all? No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Ambrella
Self


Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 70
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Everyday, I find out more about myself and who I am. Everyday, I leave something of who I was behind with yesterday.
I feel that "who I am" does not have a strictly defined definition. This belief has given me freedom to change what needs to change to meet the ever-changing challenges in my life. I used to get all attached to an ideal picture of my identity, and I found that I created too much stress trying to match up to that definition.
I'd much rather go with the flow...
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Cups said: Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?
To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.
You don't want to improve yourself at all? No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?
If you recognize what you essentially are it is not trying to get anywhere, do anything, or become anything other than what it already is effortlessly. That's not saying that living from this place of total peace nothing gets done, quite the contrary, more gets done, more efficiently, as the imaginary middle man has vanished
Maybe its only a subtle arrogance, but i still feel its an arrogance, or maybe just an innocent ignorance to feel 'I am living my life' as it would be more correct to say 'life is being lived' or just 'life is' as i have yet to see any evidence from anyone of an actual entity called 'I' that control their life
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Edited by Chronic7 (03/08/11 06:25 AM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Cups]
#14085354 - 03/08/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually, more in line with the OP, if your looking for a benefit then knowing what you want to be is much more beneficial.
If you are not bothered about benefit & only want to deeply know the truth of existence, then know what you are.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: Chronic7]
#14085365 - 03/08/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Cups said: Which is more beneficial...To know "who" you are...or to know "who" you want to be?
To know who you are, because who you are doesn't want to be anything.
You don't want to improve yourself at all? No learning a new language, no learning a new meditation technique, not even becoming more compassionate?
Change & growth is something that naturally happens by itself but what i really am doesn't change or grow as it's always the same me
Yes, you will always be you, but this you is constantly changing at the same time (hence the problem of philosophical identity). I'm talking about the you that has shifting desires, motivations, thoughts, emotions, feelings, etcetera... the you that can visualize an ideal you and work towards getting there. Ultimately I feel you're right in that free will is an illusion but we still act as if it's not; for example you don't just sit apathetically on your couch and literally do nothing for years while blaming your laziness on destiny--you still do do things even if later reflection may make it clear that perhaps these things were done beyond the imaginary free will of a "doer". At any rate my point is that you must still hold an idea of a more-perfected you (a 'you' in the sense of the constantly changing desires, motivations, ...) and your actions are continually modified to attune yourself towards this you. If not then self-improvement cannot exist. 
Quote:
The Chronic said: Actually, more in line with the OP, if your looking for a benefit then knowing what you want to be is much more beneficial.
If you are not bothered about benefit & only want to deeply know the truth of existence, then know what you are.
Isn't deeply knowing the truth of existence a benefit to work towards?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Which is more beneficial... [Re: deCypher] 2
#14085444 - 03/08/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree with what your saying & im glad you clearly see what i was saying aswell... i do work to improvement, i exercise a fair amount, eat pretty healthy, im currently looking to leave a stale job for a fresh & better paid one so i can go on more cool holidays, meet new people etc... i just find that paradoxically focusing on the unchanging Self brings rapid change in the life of the changeful self.
I feel that understanding the truth/reality/yourself does bring huge benefits, peace, bliss, freedom, non-attachment, but also at the same time the mind that is always seeking to derive benefit can possibly stand in the way of that realization. If the desire to personally gain something is really solid it can block off realization of the formless.
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