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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077710 - 03/06/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

IMO, this intelligence is by and
far the most important asset to humanity as a whole.




you raise an interesting point and I'd like to debate this further.

You are placing more importance on the 'genetic' gifts of men over women. I use 'genetic' rather loosely because I do not believe that genetics plays as large a role in the 'intellectual capabilities' of men and women. but let's just assume you are right on that one.

How do we then determine which intellectual abilities are more 'worthwhile'?

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14077727 - 03/06/11 08:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You suggested I do research on intelligence, not IQ.

Considering IQ stands for Intelligence quotient, I think
some research on intelligence would benefit your arguments.



The thread title is "Men are smarter than women."; that men generally outperform women on IQ tests does not indicate that they are smarter than them.


That is exactly what it means, assuming the tests are accurate
measures of intelligence. Women have higher emotional
qoutients, but nobody cares to argue with that.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14077746 - 03/06/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Mushie leave Poid out of it or he will hijack the discussion and make it into a word game... let's stick to your point because I find it very interesting and would like to understand it more.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077762 - 03/06/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushiepussy said:
Quote:

durantz said:
Mushie I thought you were saying this is due to a genetic difference which dictates that men are more intelligent...

There is proof that women and men have difference in biology but there is not much research to suggest that these differences result in one sex being more or less intelligent than the other.





I am saying it is genetic difference.
I am saying men are more intelligent than woman in certain aspects,
and vice-versa.

the aspects in which men are superior(mathematical ability, spatial ability) give rise to innovation. IMO, this intelligence is by and
far the most important asset to humanity as a whole.


Without emotionally inclined women to raise those children who grow up to become innovators, there would not be any innovators.



Quote:

durantz said:
And how do you think they measure general intelligence?


I think it could be measured in a lot of ways; what exactly do you mean by "they"?


Quote:

mushiepussy said:
You're actually talking to someone who studies this stuff full time. I spent 2 months studying intelligence last year...


While I think that's pretty cool, I'm not going to unquestioningly assume that everything you say on the subject is necessarily correct, that would be a logical fallacy.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077779 - 03/06/11 08:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Mushie leave Poid out of it or he will hijack the discussion and make it into a word game... let's stick to your point because I find it very interesting and would like to understand it more.




Eg.
Quote:

what exactly do you mean by "they"?



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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077780 - 03/06/11 08:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

IMO, this intelligence is by and
far the most important asset to humanity as a whole.




you raise an interesting point and I'd like to debate this further.

You are placing more importance on the 'genetic' gifts of men over women. I use 'genetic' rather loosely because I do not believe that genetics plays as large a role in the 'intellectual capabilities' of men and women. but let's just assume you are right on that one.

How do we then determine which intellectual abilities are more 'worthwhile'?




I measure these abilities worth by contributions to society.
What would you consider some of humanities greatest triumphs?
IMO, it is our knowledge of physics and its application.
Physics has brought us every piece of technology and also
has given us knowledge of the universe. This knowledge is
important no matter where you are in the universe, and is
what gives earth its importance. If we visited an alien planet
with a budding society, the best thing we could give them is
physics.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14077812 - 03/06/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mushiepussy said:
You suggested I do research on intelligence, not IQ.

Considering IQ stands for Intelligence quotient, I think
some research on intelligence would benefit your arguments.


Why don't you just concentrate on my arguments instead of what I should research? :lol:

If there's something faulty in my arguments, then you should identify the faults; there's no need to say that I need to do more research, that's totally pointless, especially if you're not even going to address the claims themselves.


Quote:

mushiepussy said:
The thread title is "Men are smarter than women."; that men generally outperform women on IQ tests does not indicate that they are smarter than them.

That is exactly what it means, assuming the tests are accurate
measures of intelligence.


So this is the assumption your argument is based on? Do you have any proof for it? I personally am somewhat skeptical about the reliability and validity of IQ tests.


Quote:

mushiepussy said:
Women have higher emotional
qoutients, but nobody cares to argue with that.


They are also better at language.


Not all studies show that men outperform women on IQ tests:

Sex and psychology - Wikipedia
Quote:

Some studies have found a small male advantage on IQ tests, while others have found a small female advantage.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14077820 - 03/06/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I measure these abilities worth by contributions to society.




Very good point!

now I propose this to you. Society is a fictional concept created by humans to separate themselves from reality. I think we are discussing this in another thread. About knowledge and the illusion of separateness.

So for argument's sake I will agree with your measure of intellectual abilities. But if we are using a fictional creation as a datum point. Then what exactly is the objective worth of this measurement?

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14077835 - 03/06/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If we visited an alien planet
with a budding society, the best thing we could give them is
physics.




how is this not your subjective opinion and nothing more?

IMO social intelligence would come more in handy.

let nature evolve as it is..

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077841 - 03/06/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

durantz said:
Mushie leave Poid out of it or he will hijack the discussion and make it into a word game... let's stick to your point because I find it very interesting and would like to understand it more.




Eg.
Quote:

what exactly do you mean by "they"?





Wow, I guess you don't feel like you need to be clear with your arguments, what a great debater you are; vagueness FTW. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePoid
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: durantz]
    #14077856 - 03/06/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Society is a fictional concept created by humans to separate themselves from reality.


No it isn't, it is a large group of homo-sapiens; many people are aware of the concept of society because they are exposed to it daily, and I'm not sure why it makes sense to you that they create this concept in order to separate themselves from reality.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblederanger
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Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: Poid]
    #14077894 - 03/06/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
what a great debater you are




Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Poid said:
That comment was pretty useless BTW, it didn't contribute to the discussion, and seemed to just be intended as a personal attack.




the hypocrisy... :smirk:



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: deranger]
    #14077910 - 03/06/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I hardly make any fallacies, am clear in my wording, don't get frustrated when asked to clarify my positions, and respond to people's points individually; that's a whole lot more than I can say for about 90% of the people that visit this forum. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: Poid] * 2
    #14077916 - 03/06/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lol you are so full of yourself. I often see you being critical of irrelevant points and not backing up your claims


--------------------

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: Poid]
    #14077925 - 03/06/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I hardly make any fallacies




:bow:

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: learningtofly]
    #14077988 - 03/06/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
lol you are so full of yourself. I often see you being critical of irrelevant points and not backing up your claims



:thumbup:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: Poid] * 2
    #14077993 - 03/06/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I hardly make any fallacies, am clear in my wording, don't get frustrated when asked to clarify my positions, and respond to people's points individually; that's a whole lot more than I can say for about 90% of the people that visit this forum. :shrug:





Actually I somewhat agree with this.  The fact that Poid does not get frustrated or pissed of when posting is fairly amazing and rare. I think Poid's one of the best debaters here and he's come a long way since I've been here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: deranger]
    #14077992 - 03/06/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

First I think we should look at what sets humans apart from
animals. Fundamentally it is the ability to understand and
manipulate nature. This ultimately results into physics
and its applications.

Let me substitute society for species. The greatest contributions
to our species are the one's that ensure its survival. Technology
has givin us a safe haven of comfort and long lives. It is the
reason why we have 7 billion people on the planet, most of which
live long comfortable lives. All of this can be attributed to
the advancement of knowledge of physics and its applications.
The next step is getting off the planet to ensure humanities survival
beyond the life of the earth, which physicists are working on.


Social intelligence is subjective, and probablly would
be void with an alien species. Physics, however, is universal and
could bring those the same comfort and security that technology has
given us, all they need is the information.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: Icelander]
    #14077999 - 03/06/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Not showing frustration = not committing fallacies?


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Men are smarter than women [Re: learningtofly]
    #14078005 - 03/06/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

No and you're only picking on one aspect of that post. And I said I somewhat agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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