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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Thank you dawn for making a direct reply. It is so amazingly refreshing and I find your explanation to be a very good analysis; though I am really hoping to hear from someone who is SURE that it is divine guidance to explain how they know.
please feel free to pick it apart as you like.
For the record, I do not pick apart posts to be a dick, contrary to some people's opinion, but to get people to clarify their stance. If it makes sense there should be a high degree of internal consistency. If there is not, then I will indeed rip it to shreds.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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 Re: Being christian and doing shrooms  [Re: Zahid]
#1406726 - 03/24/03 04:32 PM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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"Why do you feel this assertion is correct? For those who have faith God exists, there is inward, unmanifested, unseen world that certain individuals can awaken to because God is a reality. It seems psychedelics can easily reveal this nature of knowing to the person of faith."
Prove to me that this "unseen world" is a result of the exitance of god, and not of the belief in god. You can't. If someone believes in god, their worldview will be drastically different from that of someone who does not. This is not evidence that god exists.
"Feeling God is dhikr, the remembrance of God, something very different than al-Ghayb (awareness of unseen)."
Okay, there's a name for it. That's not evidence.
"Mushrooms do not make people believe one certain thing.
I thought this was common knowledge."
I wish it was. I can't count how many times I've heard "I can't believe that someone who's eaten mushrooms can be so closed minded".
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms *DELETED* [Re: Phluck]
#1406752 - 03/24/03 04:49 PM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Zahid]
#1406763 - 03/24/03 04:55 PM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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Touche.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
#1407488 - 03/25/03 02:54 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
I understand now. You are the luvdemshrooms of the spiritual and philosophy forum.
A smiley face does not make an ad hominem more acceptable. This type of statement occurs when one cannot back up their point of view.
It was a smirk, not a smiley face 
Quote:
really, really, really try to answer just THIS question (and without using the word mushroom). Don't go back to any other post or you may get confused. Now this is only the 3rd or 4th time that I have asked this same question:
If prayer begets divine guidance on an issue pertaining to how we deal with each other, then how can different Christians get different answers? (Remember that universal means ONE. )
This thread was talking about using prayer for personal guidance. But I will answer your question anyway. Logically, if we treat others as we want to be treated, we all would be doing the right thing. God or no God. This may not be logical enough for you, But it seems perfectly logical to me.
MUSHROOMS, MUSHROOMS, MUSHROOMS, MUSHROOMS,MUSHROOMS!!!!
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1407489 - 03/25/03 02:57 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is the universal law.
One more thing. I am not trying to be a smartass, but I think you use to many rules in your thinking. I try to be a little more open minded than that.
And btw, I think accusing people of comprehension problems is a poor debating tactic. You don't need to be such a smartass, it puts people on the defensive. Unless that is your tactic, to get them flustered. In which case it is cheap and beneath you.
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
Edited by sirreal (03/25/03 03:08 AM)
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FlusH
Random person on Internet
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,911
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 5 days, 21 hours
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
#1407599 - 03/25/03 03:53 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
PS. I think it would be a good idea to re-read all post's before responding. You seem to have a bad habit of selectively choosing your arguments and twisting the point other peoples posts. You would be a fine employee on Bush's administration
I was really enjoying that debate, even though we were ( at least I ) getting emotionally involved because I was enjoying myself. I did not mean to insult you with this quote, but within my group of friends there are no such things as low blow's, just three pointer's. In other words, when I start making fun, it mean's I like ya.
Basically the point I was trying to get across is that every person has a different understanding of life because of their surroundings / upbringing. To quote Pink Floyd " All that you touch, all that you see, is all that your live will ever be" I think this is a relevant quote to the topic because how you experience though out your life will determine your personal drama. What I mean by drama is your moral code, how you represent yourself, the games a person play's for energy struggle (this usually happens subconsciously ) and when this has been defined usually determines your religious beliefs as well. So hypothetically if person "A" grow's up in a typical catholic church environment, they will have specified thoughts about all drugs and the way to justify their thoughts would be to pray for affirmation. Does this person receive acual input from God or is it just them talking to themselves? That is what nobody on this earth is 100% sure of, all we have as humans is a good idea. But if that person truly believes they are communicating with god, they will have a enlightening experience because it is what they are looking for. If person "B" was born into a Shamanism environment then obviously their views on using mind altering substances is a part of religious excessive. While the catholics may not agree and think the shamans are wrong does not necessarily mean so. I hope I have clarified my previous post's,
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1407620 - 03/25/03 04:04 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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"One more thing. I am not trying to be a smartass, but I think you use to many rules in your thinking. I try to be a little more open minded than that."
The rules he uses are called logic. I would not call violations of logic "open minded".
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Phluck]
#1407658 - 03/25/03 04:26 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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I admit I do not have a degree in logic.Although I do know what the word means I am not an expert . Doesn't science defy logic sometimes? The theory of relativity for example. Aren't there aspects to this theory that contradict logic?
I read about this logical analysis one time: If you try to reach a destination by dividing the distance you travel at each step in half you cannot ,logically, ever reach your destination. Dosen't logic sometimes create a paradox?
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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chunder
marker
Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 966
Loc: The City
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1407785 - 03/25/03 05:25 AM (21 years, 28 days ago) |
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"I believe in following your own conscience in these matters. I don't pray, I listen."
The hardest part of moral growth is deciding whether or not certain ideals are universally perfect. Cultural differences, upbringing, genetics, personal experience, etc. all affect how we apply the morals we adopt, and how whether or not those morals are the same as any number of people around you. Instead of looking for "rules", I look for the truths that fit with my own unique situation. Every person is infinitely different from every other person, and yet so many people still desire to find a set of morals and rules that apply to everyone.
I'm not even 20 yet, so I suppose that many of these things will become clear with time and diligent thought and meditation. But like sirreal said, I feel its best to 'listen' to your world, because truth resounds in anything and everything, waiting for the adept to find it. Peace.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1408803 - 03/25/03 11:45 AM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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"The theory of relativity for example. Aren't there aspects to this theory that contradict logic?"
No, the very reason that the theory is respected is because it was devised using valid logic. If it had not, it would have faded into history like thousands of other crackpot theories. Mathematics are just logic.
"If you try to reach a destination by dividing the distance you travel at each step in half you cannot ,logically, ever reach your destination."
There is nothing illogical about that. There's no number other than 0 that can be divided by 2 so that it equals zero.
0 x 2 = 0 is perfectly logical.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Phluck]
#1408977 - 03/25/03 12:59 PM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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Like I said, I am not real clear on the nature of logic as it has been defined by philosophers. I have a book I dug out of an old box of books called "A modern introduction to logic" by susan stebbing that I am going to start reading tonight.Any other good books I might want to read?
This may sound like a stupid question, but can a paradox be logical?
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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chunder
marker
Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 966
Loc: The City
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1409178 - 03/25/03 02:28 PM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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Logic is a powerful tool, but there are other tools used in understanding our reality. Peace.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1409226 - 03/25/03 02:56 PM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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I'm pretty sure a paradox can be logical... I guess it could go either way.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Phluck]
#1409587 - 03/25/03 05:12 PM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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death to the system
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 22 days
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Dogomush]
#1409701 - 03/25/03 05:58 PM (21 years, 27 days ago) |
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Whatever.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 15 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Phluck]
#1433941 - 04/06/03 06:05 PM (21 years, 15 days ago) |
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<<"Actually mushrooms are very hard on the liver.
(Psychedelic Mushrooms that is) "
Provide sources please.
I believe that you may be spreading misinformation. >>
1) Eat them up yum. Even if God was not that happy about it, it is way way down on the list of minor and totally pardonable sins
2) I'm going to feel real dumb as a doctor telling people "yum" if there is any proof that they are any more than a minor temporary gastric irritant - to my knowledge there isn't any clinical info that says they are harmful, and there is clinical data that shows healing properties. So if you do have real data please contribute that for our good -
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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Anonymous
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: curenado]
#1433977 - 04/06/03 06:33 PM (21 years, 15 days ago) |
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Your answer will tell if you are truly interested in facts that contradict what you already know.
Fatal Poisoning After a Group of People Voluntarily Consumed Hallucinogenic Mushrooms
Check it out.
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DrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Right where I need to be
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
#1434621 - 04/06/03 09:53 PM (21 years, 15 days ago) |
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Prayer is people asking themselves a question, because God is within.
Of course they answer their own question, and it is based on their opinion of God and what he/she is. If they know what their God wants of them, then they know what is wrong and right and can give themselves guidance without doubt.
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AH HA....
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DrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Right where I need to be
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: FlusH]
#1434655 - 04/06/03 10:03 PM (21 years, 15 days ago) |
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Murder is never right, I think that may be a bad example to clarify your opinion.
Why is that?
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I am not trying to dispute if murder is right or wrong, I am saying that it is a bad example to clarify your point. If you agree with murder, good for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think he used murder because it is seen as a bad thing by many people, justl as drug use is. Both are considered illicit and he is bringing out people's views on things as based on personal rather than universal determination. (Why people have different views about the same thing.)
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AH HA....
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