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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor
#14073669 - 03/06/11 12:01 AM (13 years, 10 hours ago) |
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http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/05/6198177-life-in-meteorites-study-stirs-debate?GT1=43001
so far it's been dismissed, as to say that the guy that discovered it has no solid proof. but anyway apparently this is the same guy that was raving about fossils that were found on mars. i don't know about the fossils, but this guy has proved already that the bacteria found in the meteor couldn't have made it's way on there from the earth after it arrived. it's amazing because that is the first thing I would think, since the meteor is apparently 140 years old. BUT, he has confirmed it's not possible that it's from earth.
amazing, I wonder how bacteria found it's way to a rock in space. I guess bacteria must be a universal life form, well why not, it's basically a single celled organism, at least most bacteria is. I'm not even sure why they think prokaryotes and eukyrotes are the original life forms here on earth. well, I guess it makes sense, they live in the harshest conditions, and bacteria evolved it seems surving on other life, at the least on other bacteria... prokaryotes I think just eat minerals almost like plants
tell me what you think
I believe it, it's pretty fucking major
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AltecLansing
Trafalgar Square Pigeon Fiasco



Registered: 07/11/08
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: imachavel]
#14073712 - 03/06/11 12:13 AM (13 years, 10 hours ago) |
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This is a big deal.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: AltecLansing] 1
#14074200 - 03/06/11 03:41 AM (13 years, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor
No, it isn't. This Hoover guy hypothesizes it, and most of his colleagues ask for more conclusive evidence. Specifically, there are two claims that are not support to such an extent that they can be assumed to be true: 1. the structures on this piece of rock are of biological nature 2. if (1), then the question remains if they came from space or are the result of bio-contamination here on earth. In the article you quote, I see no reason to accept either of those claims. I remain highly skeptical of this.
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tokinman21
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14074207 - 03/06/11 03:47 AM (13 years, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Specifically, there are two claims that are not support to such an extent that they can be assumed to be true: 1. the structures on this piece of rock are of biological nature
Well maybe that first part is where the key is though. If we consider it to be living, but not "of biological nature" then it must be a form of life that originated outside of our biology.
Edited by tokinman21 (03/06/11 03:48 AM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: tokinman21]
#14074222 - 03/06/11 03:54 AM (13 years, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
If we consider it to be living, but not "of biological nature" then it must be a form of life that originated outside of our biology.
Nobody ever made the claim that the structures on those meteorites are 'living'. At best, they are the dead remains of something that might have been alive at some point.
But you bring up a relevant issue, and that is the nature of life itself. Many people seem to not consider the possibility of life forms that are fundamentally different from the 6-element, DNA-based life we find on earth. Escaping from this box requires that we evaluate our definitions of 'life', which is more of a philosophical exercise than it is a study of physics or chemistry.
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tokinman21
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14074233 - 03/06/11 03:58 AM (13 years, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
If we consider it to be living, but not "of biological nature" then it must be a form of life that originated outside of our biology.
Nobody ever made the claim that the structures on those meteorites are 'living'. At best, they are the dead remains of something that might have been alive at some point.
But you bring up a relevant issue, and that is the nature of life itself. Many people seem to not consider the possibility of life forms that are fundamentally different from the 6-element, DNA-based life we find on earth. Escaping from this box requires that we evaluate our definitions of 'life', which is more of a philosophical exercise than it is a study of physics or chemistry.
Yeah, sorry...I'm tripping balls right now, I honestly didn't read into that article in depth enough to process whether it's legitimate or not, just to say that if it is that was an issue.
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tokinman21
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: tokinman21]
#14074247 - 03/06/11 04:16 AM (13 years, 6 hours ago) |
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HOLY SHIT. Okay so to be perfectly honest I never clicked that link, but I just actually looked at it and I swear to god what I just drew peaked on a ten strip for my image symbolizing my existence that I'm having tattoo'd behind my right shoulder is almost identical to whatever is in that picture. Also, it is viewable at the microgram level, which is a known threshold for the effects of LSD. If we can get a chemical structure, and it's similar to LSD, this could be seriously interesting.
EDIT: also odd, just throwing it out there, that I have never once been attracted to this forum until now, right after drawing the image I'm saying resembles it. i don't have access to a high quality scanner at the moment but tomorrow I'll post an image of my page that I've been drawing on. I'ts a bunch of the same thing so i'll number it if i can remember to show the progression. Not that I really expect it to matter, as the likelihood of it resembling LSD is slim to none.
Edited by tokinman21 (03/06/11 04:43 AM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: tokinman21]
#14074292 - 03/06/11 05:01 AM (13 years, 5 hours ago) |
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14074386 - 03/06/11 06:31 AM (13 years, 3 hours ago) |
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So they saw something that sorta looks like an oblong blob of similar dimension to some living oblong blobs on earth, found carbon and sulfur in it, and that's it? Judging science off media reports is pretty much impossible, but nevertheless, this seems the same as teh prior meteor hype.
This seems only marginally better science than the jesus-in-french-toast "discoveries" that pop up every now and then.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,416
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14074960 - 03/06/11 10:21 AM (13 years, 9 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
If we consider it to be living, but not "of biological nature" then it must be a form of life that originated outside of our biology.
Nobody ever made the claim that the structures on those meteorites are 'living'. At best, they are the dead remains of something that might have been alive at some point.
But you bring up a relevant issue, and that is the nature of life itself. Many people seem to not consider the possibility of life forms that are fundamentally different from the 6-element, DNA-based life we find on earth. Escaping from this box requires that we evaluate our definitions of 'life', which is more of a philosophical exercise than it is a study of physics or chemistry.
a philosphical debate rather than a phsyical or scientific debate? WTF??
I'm starting to wonder if you people even read the article. he states in the article that the microfilaments must have come from the meteorite, if they were earth contaminite, then they would be the type of microfilaments that live in water, and apparently whatever that meteorite is made of, water dissolves the rock. now don't ask me how a meteorite from 1964 remians in the ground in europre with all the rain, and doesn't get wet and dissolve, but I'm not questioning an astronomer with years of background science.
now given that this guy could just be full of shit saying this, I'm not completely shooting it down. I don't know either way, and honestly never looked into the mars fossil thing. but whatever. we'll see as time goes on, whatever happened to the mars fossil claim anyway?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14075529 - 03/06/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor
No, it isn't. This Hoover guy hypothesizes it, and most of his colleagues ask for more conclusive evidence. Specifically, there are two claims that are not support to such an extent that they can be assumed to be true: 1. the structures on this piece of rock are of biological nature 2. if (1), then the question remains if they came from space or are the result of bio-contamination here on earth. In the article you quote, I see no reason to accept either of those claims. I remain highly skeptical of this.
One possibility is that the meteorite may have originated from the earth, but was ejected into space during a collision or powerful volcanic event, then flew around up in space for a while, before crashing back to earth.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14078289 - 03/06/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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crazy theory but not necessarily impossible
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14079423 - 03/07/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: One possibility is that the meteorite may have originated from the earth, but was ejected into space during a collision or powerful volcanic event, then flew around up in space for a while, before crashing back to earth.
That possibility is mentioned in the article as well. It's far from implausible.
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StrictlyCommercial
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: koraks]
#14080074 - 03/07/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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This is some intense stuff, if it turns out it is from Europa/outer space, imagine the implications...
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: StrictlyCommercial]
#14081253 - 03/07/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Journal of Cosmology is run by, essentially, crackpots with an agenda, while a credible claim that traces of life were found in a meteorite of extraterrestrial origin would be worthy of the cover of Science or Nature.
Quote:
"Many scientists have examined thousands of meteorites in detail over the past 50 years without finding any evidence of fossil life," David Morrison, senior scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute at Ames Research Center, told me in an e-mail. "Further, we know a great deal about the conditions on the parent objects of the meteorites, which (not counting the few meteorites from the moon and Mars) were rather small, not at all like planets.
"I would therefore invoke Carl Sagan's famous advice that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. At a bare minimum this would require publication in a prestigious peer-refereed scientific journal — which this is not. Cyanobacteria on a small airless world sounds like a joke. Perhaps the publication came out too soon; more appropriate would have been on April 1,"
How many "astrobiologists" does NASA employ anyway?
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14082145 - 03/07/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey, you can't argue with those pictures of blobs. The blobs never lie!
Interesting comment on the publication carrying this article:
Quote:
Nonetheless, it's [The Journal of Cosmology] being attacked as little more than a junk science repository by other scientists, including University of Minnesota biology professor PZ Myers.
"It isn't a real science journal at all, but is the ginned-up website of a small group of crank academics obsessed with the idea ... that life originated in outer space and simply rained down on Earth," Myers writes on his science blog. "It doesn't exist in print, consists entirely of a crude and ugly website that looks like it was sucked through a wormhole from the 1990s, and publishes lots of empty noise with no substantial editorial restraint."
Source: http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Alien-Life-Claim-Hampered-by-Journals-Dubious-Reputation-72006.html?wlc=1299539415
For those interested in the blobs that "prove" life as published in the article:

I don't know what the range of normal formations in minerals are, but do these kinda look similar to "tin whiskers"? I recall micrographs of little filamentous protrusions from electronic circuitry under current that results from, apparently, the charged elements essentially "arcing" in the direction of adjacent charged elements.
Could things like this be caused by hot minerals passing through magnetic fields? Or do chunks of rock normally form this kinda stuff when cooling, possibly with lots of jostling around? Anyone have any other guesses or actually know something about what these things are/might be?
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Jufin


Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
Loc: Australia
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Re: well, it's true, so far as much as they know, it's confirmed they found bacteria in a meteor [Re: johnm214]
#14084507 - 03/08/11 12:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: The blobs never lie!
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