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Offlinerhizo
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Registered: 10/31/02
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Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux
    #1407288 - 03/25/03 01:48 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think the rush to Baghdad has left a long supply line which is not secure. Add to this the sand storms and the coalition has got trouble. The low visibility allows the "pockets of resistance"(my favorite bullshit propaganda line) to approach close for sniping and taking out tanks and armored vehicles. The US has air superiority, but it does not have air supremacy. The Iraqi forces still have enough anti-aircraft artillery and SAMs to do some serious damage. Also, there's no western or northern front by the American and British forces. Imagine being over there in the thick of the shit. You never get a shower, you have limited water and food rations, you probably don't get shit for sleep, and you're in the middle of the desert vulnerable to getting picked off...morale is likely to be low. What do you guys think?


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: rhizo]
    #1407297 - 03/25/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think the idea is to bypass as many towns as possible because they know the Iraqi RG will be hiding among the civilians and they don't want to deal with that nightmare. Go for the head.
I think you make a good point about moral but the pace is fast and they might no have had time to think about it much. I would think supplies could be air dropped assuming they get through the anti-aircraft guns, RPGs and whatnot.


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Invisiblepuscle
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Registered: 01/07/01
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: rhizo]
    #1407332 - 03/25/03 02:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I agree. I'm no military strategist but it seems we may be in too much of a hurry. I had hoped the air campaign would make it easier for the ground-pounders. Then again, this is a mobile (read guerrilla) war. Once we enter Baghdad it's going to be holy hell on earth. If it isn't already.


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Anonymous

Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: puscle]
    #1407483 - 03/25/03 04:51 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

yes, we won't be able to call in air support when 10,000 republican guards are fighting for street corners.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: rhizo]
    #1407568 - 03/25/03 05:39 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You may have a point, but I would trust the well trained american military leaders to think out their strategy and find the flaws over some guy on a drug message board.

No offense, but you probably don't really know what you're talking about.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Phluck]
    #1407579 - 03/25/03 05:45 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i second that. vietnam is covered in jungles and swamps. we were fighting an enemy that was fighting for an ideal, not a regime. they were trained in guerilla warfare, a form of combat highly suited to the jungle. It was a form of combat we had never seen before, and one that exploited our weaknesses and diminished our strengths.

the iraqis are smaller, more conventional, more out in the open, and less dedicated than the VC and NVA were. we're fighting out in the desert, where conventional military strategy and equipment is highly effective.

we're not trickling in troops like in vietnam. this is a massive attack.

this is nothing like Nam.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: ]
    #1407606 - 03/25/03 05:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

this is a massive attack.

I wouldn't exactly call Vietnam small. We did drop more bombs in it than were dropped in the entire second world war. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of gallons of napalm and DDT.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Xlea321]
    #1407628 - 03/25/03 06:09 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

"I wouldn't exactly call Vietnam small. We did drop more bombs in it than were dropped in the entire second world war. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of gallons of napalm and DDT. "

He didn't call Vietnam small. It lasted seven years. He said that troops were trickled in, when you do that for seven years, it equals a whole lot of shit happening.

In the first Gulf War, the american equipment prooved to be inadequate for desert warfare, and they still won. They've had twelve years to work out those glitches, and now they're returning. They know what to expect, they've got the best resources, and the best military minds working on this one. I don't think this war itself will be dragged out like Vietnam, but the aftermath very well may.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Phluck]
    #1407712 - 03/25/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

don't worry, it's just typical alex nitpicking and grabbing at straws.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1407724 - 03/25/03 06:49 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think that its suicide to pass the enemy and blitz to Bagdhad.

All theyre doing is putting the enemy all around them. Good thing that the Iraqis dont have any military strategy because It would be easy to surround the US forces at Baghdad and take them out.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Phluck]
    #1407742 - 03/25/03 06:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You may have a point, but I would trust the well trained american military leaders to think out their strategy and find the flaws over some guy on a drug message board.

No offense, but you probably don't really know what you're talking about.




I know that their were simulated war games done with military strategists not too long ago and with American military planners playing the roll of Iraq with Iraqs current arsenal they kicked the US ass. They sunk many ships before they could get their plains off and killed tens of thousands of soldiers before they got close to any cities...

I dont think that Iraq has the greatest strategy but I have a feeling that theyve got something big planed to protect Baghdad. They havent even used one percent of their air force and theyve got more than 300 fitghter jets still available.



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GabbaDj

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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Phluck]
    #1407750 - 03/25/03 07:04 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You may have a point, but I would trust the well trained american military leaders to think out their strategy and find the flaws over some guy on a drug message board.

No offense, but you probably don't really know what you're talking about.




Actually Phluck, they were talking about this the other day on TV. Many of our mechanized divisions are moving much faster than their support, and they are running the risk of running out of fuel.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1407757 - 03/25/03 07:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

We are watching their aircraft. Once they launch they will be intercepted quickly. That is why they haven't been used.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineflow
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Registered: 11/20/02
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1408085 - 03/25/03 09:28 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I think that its suicide to pass the enemy and blitz to Bagdhad.



No, it's a calculated risk that teh US military is taking to reduce civilian casualities, harm to civilian resources, and the length of the war.
Quote:

All theyre doing is putting the enemy all around them. Good thing that the Iraqis dont have any military strategy because It would be easy to surround the US forces at Baghdad and take them out.



see, the reason we're not worried about this is because is the open desert, the iraqis would get slaughtered, badly. i'm talking like 1000 to 1 casualty count. even if a huge iraqi force came at the us forces in baghdad while we had surrounded the city, our air support would rip them apart before they got there.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1408096 - 03/25/03 09:35 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They havent even used one percent of their air force and theyve got more than 300 fitghter jets still available.




according to the pentagon, less than half of those planes are operational, also most are MIG's, which are greatly outperformed by F15E's and F16's. If iraq's planes got off the ground, they'd be put back in no time.


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Offlinerhizo
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: rhizo]
    #1409300 - 03/25/03 05:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

a few thoughts. if you're over there and your tank or car gets popped by an iraqi(russian) anti-tank missile and you and your team survive what the hell you do? do you hitch a ride in another tank? are you stuck without a ride in the middle of the desert in a sandstorm that limits your visibility to 2 meters?
My movie title: Guerillas in the Mist. Also, do you think coalition US/UK casualties are higher than being reported and if so how would they conceal this? For example how would they deal with the next of kin notification?


--------------------
An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Offlineflow
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: rhizo]
    #1410309 - 03/26/03 05:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Also, do you think coalition US/UK casualties are higher than being reported and if so how would they conceal this?



no, because you can't hide the fact that someone's son or daughter didn't come home.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: flow]
    #1410421 - 03/26/03 06:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

no, because you can't hide the fact that someone's son or daughter didn't come home.


True...but do you think that every family is in touch with eachother?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1410466 - 03/26/03 06:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

[know that their were simulated war games done with military strategists not too long ago and with American military planners playing the roll of Iraq with Iraqs current arsenal they kicked the US ass. They sunk many ships before they could get their plains off and killed tens of thousands of soldiers before they got close to any cities...




Well good this those stratagists are on our side. Was that the first run through? I'm sure they did it more that once. Did they put the best planners on the Iraq side to try and get a worse case senerio? And most importantly and the purpose of the games, what did we learn from it?

without more context that one scenerio means little.


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater

Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Military Strategy -- Vietnam Part Deux [Re: Phluck]
    #1416173 - 03/28/03 09:53 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You may have a point, but I would trust the well trained american military leaders to think out their strategy and find the flaws over some guy on a drug message board.

No offense, but you probably don't really know what you're talking about.





yeah...you're probably right. i guess that's why they're sending 120,000 reinforcements. good question posed to rumsfeld yesterday in a DoD briefing to the media.

"Q: Mr. Secretary, as you know, there has been some criticism, some by
retired senior officers, some by officers on background in this
building, who claim that the war plan that is in effect is flawed and
our number of troops on the ground is too light, supply lines are too
long and stretched too thin. Would you give us a definitive statement,
if you would, to the effect that you agree that the war plan is sound
and that this criticism is unfounded, or that there's some substance
to it?

Rumsfeld: Well, we're one week into this, and it seems to me it's a
bit early for history to be written, one would think. The war plan is
Tom Franks' war plan. It was carefully prepared over many months. It
was washed through the tank with the chiefs on at least four or five
occasions.

transcript here"

they broke the first rule of soldiery, never underestimate your enemy


--------------------
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