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 IfOnlyICouldWrite
 
Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 169
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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 Re: Dark = necessary for sanity  [Re: phxBoomer]
#12307805 - 03/31/10 07:10 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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This is my odd theory - slightly modified based on a video I saw linked from another thread on this forum.
I think that drugs like weed, lsd, shrooms and other hallucinogens separate us from our "we" part of the brain. I saw in this other video someone posted about a woman talking about experiencing a stroke which was oddly very much like my experiences with mdma, a bit like weed, a lot like the time I mixed mdma and lsd together - and very close to identical as my salvia trips.
With the left part of our brain being ME and the right side being WE - I think the WE part is the collective consciousness of all life. I think that the WE part of the brain is what gives us our connection to each other while the ME part builds our reality around it. When you disrupt the connection the ME starts falling away - thus dissolving our reality into something that just comes from the WE - and this possible explains why we all have such similar trips!
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"Who is dreaming what? A sage went to sleep one night and dreamt he was a butterfly, only to be awakened by a sudden noise. When he opened his eyes he questioned, "Am I a man, dreaming I was a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming I am a man?" Who are you in reality?" Zen Life - Daniel Levin
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 FrenchMachine
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1,126
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Edited by FrenchMachine (03/24/11 11:13 PM)
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LSDXM
What Doth Life?
Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 2,506
Loc: The 518
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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I really hope it lets me post this from my phone... but yea, I guess I just came at this from the perspective of already not believing that this world/reality is real, from a very young age so when this happened to me it still made perfect sense. i knew this was fake but had no idea what wasn't so I was open for whatever came along. I wouldn't assume you were done with it. Id say youre next step is seeing what happens when you aren't so caught up in being horrified.
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 The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong 
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: FrenchMachine]
#12316951 - 04/02/10 10:30 AM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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Wait a minute. Is this you?
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drewmandan
Stranger
Registered: 01/30/10
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: Revelation]
#12317143 - 04/02/10 11:08 AM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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That's funny Revelation, I had the exact same thought reading this thread.
Anyway, although I haven't tried Salvia (yet), there's something slightly disturbing about the ideas being presented here. I can't immediately reject them as nonsense, which troubles me.
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: drewmandan]
#12317160 - 04/02/10 11:16 AM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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definitely, reminds me of HP Lovecraft...
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Comradez
stargazer
Registered: 03/21/10
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I would just like to add to this thread, before I forget: one of my other speculations is that the reason the salvia experience feels so familiar is because it is taking us back to our mode of consciousness from when we were very very young, like when we were infants and couldn't distinguish shapes or objects (where we just perceive a raw stimulus, sort of like how people with object agnosia perceive the world) or think linguistically or have a sense of self-consciousness.
This is always the sense I have when coming up on a salvia trip. Not that things look different and thus seem different, but rather that they look the same but seem different in a pre-deductive sense, without any conscious reason for them seeming different other than a pre-conscious feeling that they are different--just like how people with face agnosia will say that a person looks exactly the same as a relative of theirs, but simply must be an impostor or look-alike because something about them just "feels wrong," even if it is actually their relative standing in front of them.
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LSDXM
What Doth Life?
Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 2,506
Loc: The 518
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Dark = necessary for sanity [Re: Comradez]
#12321212 - 04/02/10 11:57 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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I'd like to add that I don't see why this being real is so frightening and shocking, especially after repeated experience. I think you're dwelling on the novelty of it too much. It's really not so weird to think that this is only a fragment of the totality of reality (sweet band name) and that smoking Salvia presents you with another view among the multitudes. Just try to chill out and accept it IRL and then when you're there, inquire about your environment instead of wigging. Maybe they keep shoving you back because you keep 'screaming'.
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The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong
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FrenchMachine
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1,126
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Edited by FrenchMachine (03/24/11 11:13 PM)
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FrenchMachine
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1,126
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Edited by FrenchMachine (03/24/11 11:13 PM)
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Aldebaran
Psilo-Scribe
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,330
Loc: Altered States of Europe
Last seen: 21 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: FrenchMachine]
#12399826 - 04/15/10 06:05 PM (14 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
FrenchMachine said:
It’s as if Reality is some sort of ever-present veil and when I get enough Salvinorin A loaded up into my brain at once it allows me to see what is going on behind the scenes. It forces me to feel like I’ve found a way to temporarily escape Life/Reality and see the truth, if only for a few quick confusing minutes.
I read this thread a couple of weeks ago, but didn't really have time to construct a response. The text quoted above is surprisingly similar to something William James wrote around 100 years ago, following his experiences with nitrous oxide:
Quote:
from the article The Nitrous Oxide Philosopher:
One conclusion was forced upon my mind at that time, and my impression of its truth has ever since remained unshaken. It is that our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.
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Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade?
Reality, as we normally think of it, is indeed a façade. In order to comprehend the salvia experience, or any other psychedelic experience, it's important to remember that everything you see, even when you are sober, is inside your head. That's not to say that there isn't a real, objective, physical world, it's just that the "physical reality" of what you are seeing is the visual processing in your brain, not an object in the world. Confusing what you see with reality is like confusing a map of a city with a city. It makes perfect sense to point to a map and say "That is London" as long as you don't confuse the map with the city.
The salvia experience is unsettling because your brain is presenting you with a bizarre reality that appears equally real (although less persistent) to the one you normally experience. That's because both "realities" are hallucinations, and what you see is the brain's attempt to model reality, not reality itself. (What exact changes salvia introduces to the brain's model of reality, to produce such weird results, is an interesting question).
To put it another way,
Quote:
beyond the farthest things that we can perceive in all directions, i.e. beyond the walls, floor, and ceiling of the room you see around you, is the inner surface of your true physical skull. And beyond that skull is an unimaginably immense external world of which all this that you see around you here is merely an internal virtual-reality replica. The existential vertigo occasioned by this mental image is so disorienting that only a handful of researchers have seriously entertained this notion, or taken it to its logical conclusions.
That quote comes from this article by a researcher called Steve Lehar, and here is a less wordy explanation of what he is on about, with pictures: A cartoon epistemology
Although the exact model of vision proposed by this guy is not taken too seriously by other scientists, the basic idea of "indirect realism" has been accepted by scientists and philosophers for a long time and isn't really in dispute. It's just that not many people stop to consider what it really means - that what you think is external reality is actually created inside your brain, a "reality" that can be warped in profoundly strange ways by salvia precisely because it is not reality. 
 (Metaphysics overdose)
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I wrote that, but I meant something else
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FrenchMachine
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1,126
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Edited by FrenchMachine (03/24/11 10:53 PM)
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Comradez
stargazer
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 615
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: FrenchMachine]
#13698644 - 12/28/10 10:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think this pertains to the discussion:
Last time I did salvia, I had the sensation of being in a game show and being told, in front of a laughing crowd, that I had won the grand "prize" by waking up to the true reality. The laughing was neither directed at me, nor was it empathetic, but merely indifferent to me, as if they were laughing with each other, and I was simply a harmless object of laughter towards which they felt neither malevolence nor sympathy). My room suddenly looked like a miniature doll-house in a lower dimension. I had a definite sense of "rotating" backwards into this higher dimension, and then rotating back.
Even though these details seem to be different than the details from my previous trips, I know that the only thing that really differs is how I analogize the experience after the fact each time. Each time I'm analogizing it a bit differently in my mind, but while I'm in the experience each time I say to myself (apparently out loud according to my brother this last time), "This always happens!" For that moment, while I'm going to the higher dimension and my old reality is turning into a 2-D painting or doll-house or something "fake" and "stage-set", it seems so silly and mundane that salvia produces such a predictable effect. But when I get back to this reality, it seems anything but mundane....
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slehar
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/11
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: FrenchMachine]
#13784811 - 01/14/11 06:43 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi Frenchmachine,
This is Steve Lehar. Thank you for citing my work, I found this thread searching my name.
Wow! Your experiences with those gear people is amazing! Thank you for sharing it with us! Great descriptions!
I have an answer to your question. The people you see are YOU! They are fragments of you that get fragmented by the Salvia, and as you stare and gape and try to make some kind of sense out of them, they see YOU as stitching up THEIR reality with your probing eyes! Your single unitary consciousness has fragmented into a million pieces, and EACH ONE (each tooth in the gear) is a WHOLE UNIVERSE of experience, like the one we see in normal consensual reality. Your desperate attempts to make sense of this nonsense is exactly what THEY are doing as they try to put your reality back together again!
Why gears? Why wheels? Because our brain works by HARMONIC RESONANCE, patterns of standing waves in the brain that take the shape of the world we experience, including the experience of a "body" at the center of our world, but that it only a miniature replica of your real body.
Yes these experiences are VERY significant. You do well to take notes and observe. Maybe if you know what you are seeing you might make more sense out of it. What you are seeing is patterns of standing waves in your brain. You can help science make sense of how the brain constructs the world. Your observation that each tooth had two people minding it, is very instersting. Look at the space around you. Did you ever notice that it is one-sided? You can only see forward and sideways about 180 degrees, you can't see behind your head. Sure you can turn your head and see whats there, but then you can't see whats behind your head NOW. Our view of the world is one-sided, and I suspect you are seeing multiple copies of that one-sided bubble of reality. I would be very interested in working with you to try to figure out what you are actually seeing.
Have you seen the Flammarion Woodcut?
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammarion_woodcut]Flammarion Woodcut[/url]
That is what you are doing under Salvia. But that picture is incomplete. Zoom out even bigger, and that heavenly universe packed with wheels turning within wheels, is itself all encompassed by a giant skull, which is your own, beyond which is the REAL universe. EVERYTHING in your experience is fake, a product of your mind, even consensual reality.
Check out this book on my own psychonautical observations...
http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/GrandIllusion.pdf
Steve
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Aldebaran
Psilo-Scribe
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,330
Loc: Altered States of Europe
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 Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: slehar]
#13840815 - 01/24/11 06:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is Steve Lehar. Thank you for citing my work, I found this thread searching my name.
Actually, it was me (Aldebaran) that cited your work in a reply to Frenchmachine. The whole "is reality a facade?" question reminded me of your theories about consciousness, and I thought anyone interested by this thread would enjoy reading some of your work. Anyway, welcome to the Shroomery Mr Lehar!
Quote:
Check out this book on my own psychonautical observations...
http://cns-alumni.bu.edu/~slehar/GrandIllusion.pdf
It's always been my suspicion that some of the academics most interested in the brain and consciousness are in fact died-in-the-wool psychonauts!
Fellow shroomerites - if your interest in psychedelics extends even slightly beyond pretty colors and giggles, then Mr Lehar's "The Grand Illusion" PDF linked above is really worth reading. It's described as a "A psychonautical odyssey into the depths of human experience" and that's exactly what it is. As well as being an interesting story of one person's lifelong experience with psychedelics, it contains sections on Weed, LSD, Ecstasy, Nitrous, Ketamine, DXM and Salvia which describe and analyse the experiences in great detail. The aim throughout is to use these experiences to gain an insight into the workings of the brain, so there are a lot of interesting theories and observations about consciousness and reality.
In fact, I would suggest "The Grand Illusion" ought to have it's own thread...
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I wrote that, but I meant something else
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mukhail
Creeper
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1,361
Loc: Antarctica
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Re: Is Reality a façade or are the Beings/Wheels the façade? (Salvia) [Re: Aldebaran]
#13840991 - 01/24/11 08:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I feel that if I returned to salvia, I would discover so much more about it. but at the same time, I do not think I am prepared to do that yet.
Salvia is insanity, in my opinion.
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FrenchMachine
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 1,126
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Edited by FrenchMachine (03/24/11 10:58 PM)
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