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OfflineTheThinker
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Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Fear of Sharia Law
    #14070374 - 03/05/11 10:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I can't help but notice the constant yammering from the right that it is the intent of hundreds of millions of Muslims to enact Sharia Law on the U.S.

This not only flies in the face of reason, but there is no evidence supporting the claims. I will post some links here to help fight the fear mongering should you run up against it.


The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in America has brought with it a wave of largely-unsubstantiated suggestions from conservative media commentators and politicians that America is at risk of falling under the sway of Sharia law.

First, a definition: Sharia law is strict Islamic law. It is designed to guide devout Muslims in their personal and professional dealings, and has been used by the Taliban and others to justify limits on women's rights and harsh punishments, including amputation and stoning. (It is open to interpretation, however; here's a helpful backgrounder from the Council on Foreign Relations.)
{snip}
"They are building mosques all over the place," the questioner told Angle. "They want to build one near [ground zero]. And they seem to be getting their way. On a TV program just last night I saw that they are taking over a city in Michigan."

After stating that the "militant terrorist situation" in question "isn't a widespread thing," Angle said this: "First of all, Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under Constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States."

"It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States," she added.

The statement drew a rebuke from Dearborn Mayor Jack O' Reilly, who said Angle "doesn't know what she's talking about." (As for Frankford, it reportedly doesn't exist, but is a former town annexed into Dallas 35 years ago.) The Dearborn claim may have been grounded in the arrest of four Christian evangelists for disorderly conduct at an Arab cultural festival in June, which some conservatives took as evidence that Sharia law had come to Michigan.
{snip}
At the Values Voters summit in September, Newt Gingrich said - to a standing ovation - that "[w]e should have a federal law that says Sharia law cannot be recognized by any court in the United States." He has also warned that jihadists are trying "to replace Western civilization with a radical imposition of Sharia."

To support his argument, Gingrich cites a 2009 judgment in New Jersey that a man had not sexually assaulted his wife because his behavior was "consistent with his practices." The decision was later overturned, and stands as "the one and only instance of stealth sharia that anyone has been able to find," according to the Washington Post's Eugene Robinson.
{snip}
But considering that there are perhaps two million Muslims in the United States, a country with a population of more than 310 million, fears of an outbreak of Sharia law seem overblown at best. Even if there is somehow a serious push for the imposition of Sharia law - or any other religious law - it would quickly run up against the first amendment to the Constitution.

"Were not going to see hand chopping off, were not going to see retaliatory violence, we're not going to see underage marriages, were not going to see polygamous marriages," Clark Lombardi of the University of Washington Law School told NPR. "The U.S. courts simply wouldn't do it."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...03544.html


Although Shariah is often simply and falsely equated with Islamic law, by many Muslims and non-Muslims alike, it should not be. Shariah refers to God's Will, laws, principles and values, found in the Quran and the traditions of the Prophet. Islamic law is the product of early jurists who interpreted and developed during it in the early Islamic centuries. Therefore, Islamic law is the product not only of the divine revelation and guidance but also of religious scholars reasoning and interpretation, their attempt to formulate a blueprint, for individuals and society, for personal and public life. Moreover, the early framers developed Islamic law in and for Islamic empires and societies, not for Muslims living permanently in non-Muslim societies. While it was expected that Muslims (traders, scholars and others) might live for a time outside the lands of Islam, the expected ideal was to live in a Muslim society and there was no felt need to develop a law for permanent minority communities.
{snip}
Many reformers note that Muslims in the West, like other Europeans and Americans, share an identity informed by multiple sub-cultures. Muslims are Muslim by religion and French, British, German, American by culture. Like Roman Catholic reformers in the 20th century, who faced a similar question regarding Catholic life and loyalty in a non-Catholic secular society where some of its laws and cultural practices differed from the teachings of their faith, Muslim reformers argue that to embrace secularism and an open society is not a betrayal of Muslim principles for it enables all citizens to live together and the necessary condition for religious freedom--for Muslims and others.
{snip}
But what do Muslim do when in some instances American laws are contrary to their beliefs? Respond in the same way as members of other faith traditions --by recognizing the democratic process and pluralistic nature of society and, if one wishes, work within the system to change it through lobbying the government concerning laws and appointments of Supreme Court judges just as many Americans, of all faiths and of no faith, have done on issues like prayer in the schools and abortion.
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfait...ariah.html

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070390 - 03/05/11 11:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nobody does fear better than America.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070397 - 03/05/11 11:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Nobody does fear better than America.:thumbup:




Sadly, this is true.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070413 - 03/05/11 11:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Their intent is to convert people to Islam and use Islamic law all around the world, not in the US alone.  The threat of that actually happening in the US is low, our future is going to be a catholic/secular Hispanic one.  But Europe is sure a prime target.  They import Muslims as fast as they can, and Muslim majorities in Europe are the future.  Islamic law is a valid threat for Europe over the next couple hundred years.  I hope the future Muslim, European citizens embrace secularism, but I'm not convinced they will.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070435 - 03/05/11 11:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The scardypancers always try to frame their chickenshit cowardice as strength and/or bravery.

"I was brave enough to crap my pance on 9/11. Were you?"


--------------------
This space for rent

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070436 - 03/05/11 11:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Their intent is to convert people to Islam and use Islamic law all around the world, not in the US alone.  The threat of that actually happening in the US is low, our future is going to be a catholic/secular Hispanic one.  But Europe is sure a prime target.  They import Muslims as fast as they can, and Muslim majorities in Europe are the future.  Islamic law is a valid threat for Europe over the next couple hundred years.  I hope the future Muslim, European citizens embrace secularism, but I'm not convinced they will.




It is the intent of most religions to convert people to their particular brand of The Truthâ„¢.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070456 - 03/05/11 11:18 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Thats mostly true.  But not all want law based off of their holy book, and not all are willing to commit violence to do it.  Forcing a false equivalence between all religions is a diversion and a retreat, usually done by the overly politically correct who cannot bear to believe that one group kills more than another.  The fact is, the vast majority of all violent conflicts on the planet right now involve Muslims.  That is simple accounting.  It hasn't always been this way, it wont always be this way, but it is this way right now.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070461 - 03/05/11 11:19 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Their intent is to convert people to Islam and use Islamic law all around the world, not in the US alone.  The threat of that actually happening in the US is low, our future is going to be a catholic/secular Hispanic one.  But Europe is sure a prime target.  They import Muslims as fast as they can, and Muslim majorities in Europe are the future.  Islamic law is a valid threat for Europe over the next couple hundred years.  I hope the future Muslim, European citizens embrace secularism, but I'm not convinced they will.





In the same way that Christianity is a threat to much of the world. Take a look at history.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070468 - 03/05/11 11:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:foreheadslap:  There is that false equivalence, diversion again.

Yea, I know history.  Im talking about right now though.  Im not scared of Christians now for the same reason Im not afraid of the Germans or Italians.  They arnt on the warpath these days.  :kingtard:


edit - And of course, if I were transported back in time about a thousand years I would seek refuge in a more tolerant and secular Islamic society, and use simple accounting to know that I should fear/oppose the Christians more than the Muslims.  Put me in twentieth century Europe, and I will fear/oppose the secular and atheists most.

Edited by DieCommie (03/05/11 11:30 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070521 - 03/05/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Many Christians are on the warpath in America right now against fellow citizens and I "fear" them much more than any Muslim.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070548 - 03/05/11 11:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think that is an irrational fear.  There is very little violence committed in the US or the world in the name of Christianity these days.  Here in the states, if I get attacked or murdered it will most likely be by a cop or by a violent drug dealer/gang.  Most violence done these days is in the name of a secular political cause or Islam.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070549 - 03/05/11 11:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Many Christians are on the warpath in America right now against fellow citizens and I "fear" them much more than any Muslim.



What? 
Quote:

Icelander said:


In the same way that Christianity is a threat to much of the world. Take a look at history.




What threat?  I am not aware of any violent efforts to convert people to Christianity


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14070568 - 03/05/11 11:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not aware of any violent threats to convert me to Islam.  To my knowledge no one but Christians have ever killed anyone here for providing abortions.  Or threatened homosexuals in my country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer
As Frank said they're dangerous and ugly on the side.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (03/05/11 11:51 AM)

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070581 - 03/05/11 11:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think that is an irrational fear.  There is very little violence committed in the US or the world in the name of Christianity these days.  Here in the states, if I get attacked or murdered it will most likely be by a cop or by a violent drug dealer/gang.  Most violence done these days is in the name of a secular political cause or Islam.





Not all threats come in the form of violence. Christians in this country would indeed rewrite the laws to conform to their holy book and in fact are trying to do exactly that. Examine abortion, birth control, womens rights to a lesser degree, blue laws, prayer in schools, In God We Trust on our money, prayer to open senate meetings, I could go on.

The pen is mightier than the sword at a distance of greater than ten feet.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070607 - 03/05/11 12:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, that is democracy... what can you do?  You would deny them the right to push their agenda?  Then what happens when nobody will stand up for your right to push an agenda? 

From my vantage point, I see this secular/christian country has legalized abortion, legalized birth control, given women full rights, repealed blue laws, respected the right to pray or not pray in schools.  So what if it says In God we Trust on our money?  So what if a Senator prays in the Senate?  Religion, as annoying as it is, is not banned in the US.

You are drawing a false equivalence between praying in the senate and a violent global movement.  This is what white guilt and political correctness do, they compel you to minimize widespread violence because it is not committed by whites, and focus on anything you can find wrong with "white people's civilization".

In reading your posts I think think you are consumed with debilitating white guilt and political correctness.  Im sure you disagree, but I dont have much more to comment beyond that.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: Icelander]
    #14070615 - 03/05/11 12:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm not aware of any violent threats to convert me to Islam.  To my knowledge no one but Christians have ever killed anyone here for providing abortions.  Or threatened homosexuals in my country.




By expressing a desire to impose sharia law they are threatening homosexuals.  As far as Christians killing abortion doctors I think we have one abortion doctor who has accounted for more infant murders than the toal number of doctors who have been killed.
Quote:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer
As Frank said they're dangerous and ugly on the side.




Frank said a lot of things.  You're only more concerned with mild Christians because there are relatively few Muzzies and you are not well.  In the rest of the great wide world there are just as many Muzzies and a lot, hundreds of millions want to put you to the sword.  Good thing they are the most inept jackasses you could ask for in an adversary.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070627 - 03/05/11 12:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheThinker said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think that is an irrational fear.  There is very little violence committed in the US or the world in the name of Christianity these days.  Here in the states, if I get attacked or murdered it will most likely be by a cop or by a violent drug dealer/gang.  Most violence done these days is in the name of a secular political cause or Islam.





Not all threats come in the form of violence. Christians in this country would indeed rewrite the laws to conform to their holy book and in fact are trying to do exactly that. Examine abortion, birth control, womens rights to a lesser degree, blue laws, prayer in schools, In God We Trust on our money, prayer to open senate meetings, I could go on.





I'm sure you will.  The problem is that there is a difference between violent overthrow and voting overthrow.

Women's rights my ass.  Try getting custody as a divorced father.


--------------------

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InvisibleSticky Green
Male


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1,396
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070652 - 03/05/11 12:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Well, that is democracy... what can you do?  You would deny them the right to push their agenda?  Then what happens when nobody will stand up for your right to push an agenda? 

From my vantage point, I see this Christian country has legalized abortion, legalized birth control, given women full rights, repealed blue laws, respected the right to pray or not pray in schools.  So what if it says In God we Trust on our money?  So what if a Senator prays in the Senate?  Religion, as annoying as it is, is not banned in the US.

You are drawing a false equivalence between praying in the senate and a violent global movement.  This is what white guilt and political correctness do, they compel you to minimize widespread violence because it is not committed by whites, and focus on anything you can find wrong with "white people's civilization".

In reading your posts I think think you are consumed with debilitating white guilt and political correctness.  Im sure you disagree, but I dont have much more to comment beyond that.




Don't waste your time, trying to reason with some people is like banging your head against a brick wall.

Fundamentalist muslims are some of the most intolerant people in the world. Yet these so called free thinkers will defend them to the death, while they bitch at you for being "intolerant".

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OfflineTheThinker
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 114
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070657 - 03/05/11 12:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Well, that is democracy... what can you do?  You would deny them the right to push their agenda?  Then what happens when nobody will stand up for your right to push an agenda? 

From my vantage point, I see this Christian country has legalized abortion, legalized birth control, given women full rights, repealed blue laws, respected the right to pray or not pray in schools.  So what if it says In God we Trust on our money?  So what if a Senator prays in the Senate?  Religion, as annoying as it is, is not banned in the US.

You are drawing a false equivalence between praying in the senate and a violent global movement.  This is what white guilt and political correctness do, they compel you to minimize widespread violence because it is not committed by whites, and focus on anything you can find wrong with "white people's civilization".

In reading your posts I think think you are consumed with debilitating white guilt and political correctness.  Im sure you disagree, but I dont have much more to comment beyond this post.





Good grief. I have no 'white guilt'. I do however listen to differing opinions on subjects that I find interesting and then try to flesh out where the truth is.

Abortion and homosexuality is under attack here every day.

You are drawing a false equivalence between Islam as a whole and a handful of extremists.

# Women hold only 17% of the seats in Congress. (Source)
# Only 22% of all statewide elective executive office positions are currently held by women. (Source)
# State Legislatures are only 24% women. (Source)
# Only 6 out of 50 states have a female governor. (Source)
# The United States trails behind much of the world—ranking 90th in the number of women in our national legislature. (*Note: The U.S. is listed as 73rd, but after accounting for tied rankings of other countries, the ranking for the U.S. is 90th. Source)
# On average, male cabinet appointees outnumber women cabinet appointees in our states by a ratio of 2 to 1.  (Source)
http://www.wcffoundation.org/pages/research/women-in-politics-statistics.html

At least two states are trying to pass laws to investigate miscarriages to see if they were deliberate or not, this is an attempt to redefine when life begins.

With very few exceptions try to get married as a homosexual. Even if you do, the chances are good it will not be recognized in another state.

You claim white guilt, but in reality it is about equal rights. For everyone.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Fear of Sharia Law [Re: TheThinker]
    #14070677 - 03/05/11 12:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You are drawing a false equivalence between Islam as a whole and a handful of extremists.




Handful?  You think active violence in Spain, the US, England, France, Chechnya, Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Sir Lanka, Kashmir, Phillipeans constitute a handful?  You would equate this global violence to females not getting elected as much as males and people opposing abortion?  Give me a break, you are consumed with guilt.

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