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Invisibleglobos
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Weaning from propagator
    #14069980 - 03/05/11 08:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have some sceletium tortuosum, some globular cacti (mammillaria, loph) and some peppers going in a couple electrical propagators - all from seed.

Sceletium and cacti were sown last summer (around July). The peppers were sown just a couple weeks ago.

I need to make room for new seeds (mostly cacti and peppers), so I would like to know how to "wean" the babies from the protected atmosphere. Did I keep them there too long? I'm asking because I had most of the sceletium die and new seedlings come out. Same with cacti, minus the new seedlings. The peppers, too, smostly sprouted quickly and were looking healthy but soon they bent over and are struggling or already dead. In other words, the rate of survival is too low... what's going on? I'm hoping to post pictures at the beginning of next week. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14091193 - 03/09/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here are some pictures.

Is the problem in the environment? Here's a pic of the germinators on a rainy day (today's sunny - spring is coming! :-)


First, the lophs (planted in June/July 2010)
Healthy looking seedlings (first pic taken last year, when they were a couple of months old or so) turning a funny colour, with quite a few ones dying (last 2 pics taken today).



Mammillaria spp. - First pic taken last fall, when they were green and many and healthy. Second pic taken today.



Sceletium tortuosum looking healthy and dying in various ways. All pics are more or less recent - the seeds are very slow to germinate and occasionally a new plant appears, only to die after 2-3 months, so I have seedlings at various stages of development-illness.
The seedlings outside did better: one survived the winter (there were like 6-7 seedlings, and 3 had made it to the beginning of winter).



Peppers at various stages. The first pic shows both healthy seedlings and wilted/dead ones; the second pic shows a suspicious-looking new seedling.


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InvisibleVaranid
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14091619 - 03/09/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know anything about cactus really but I've read the color the seedling turned can tell you what went wrong. Have you suddenly increased their light exposure? I read that seedlings turning reddish to brown means to much light.

How moist were you keeping the soil? While they need high humidity they need dryer soil. I think that's why all the things I read said mist rather than water.

Do you know what the temps were inside the propagator? The seedlings just look like they fell over. If the sun got bright enough it could have cooked them. The combination of the dome, high humidity and warming substrate could have been to much.


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InvisiblePoC
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: Varanid]
    #14095195 - 03/09/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I suspect some are rot and some may be dehydration.  Weaning them is probably the hardest part and knowing when to do it can take more than one batch to get right.  I've seen my fair share take a turn for the worse in the winter/early spring time - this year I lost a pot of previously healthy looking Mammillaria compressa :/  Don't let it get ya down though - I seen you grow many healthy plants :smile:


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: PoC]
    #14096490 - 03/10/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I see what you mean - it's this mix of different causes that baffles me. One rots (too damp), the other dehydrates (too dry). Very hard to get it right indeed. I suspect the cacti and succulents (sceletium) could have been weaned much, much earlier; it's been 8-10 months already... but I'm so wary of removing them from the comfortable environment!


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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14102748 - 03/11/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Get a nail red hot, and poke a new hole in the top of your germinator every day, in a month-or-two-ish they should be pretty well acclimated and will be hardened off. Keep everything else the same, but keep and eye out that they don't start to dehydrate--if they do, cover some holes up, and wait until they rebound


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: TheManWithTheHat]
    #14103526 - 03/11/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Nail? Poke a hole? No way! These are electric appliances, made to last. I don't want to destroy them.


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14262917 - 04/09/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here we go again - some of last year's seedlings are dying. They get "soft in the foot" and maintain a normal appearance, but if you touch them you'll feel they are soft and almosty empty. What's that? What can I do?

The problem is most apparent with Mammillarias - only a couple left from the many that sprouted :-(

A catastrophical time series - from last summer until today. What's up??
   


I also lost quite a few lophs this way - they were as many as the mammillarias (maybe even more) - but only few are left by now :sad:


Can someone help?
I want to sow some more (got many seeds), but I'm afraid I will screq up again, so I'd really appreciate some advice.


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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14264190 - 04/09/11 08:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds like damping off to me. The seedlings end up rotting from the inside and there is not evidence of a problem until touched when the gas produced during the rotting escape and they collapse completely.


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14264381 - 04/09/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I had a similar thing happen to me when they were exposed to too much light and extreme temps one day when I was careless. Here's a link so you can see>>link Check out the Ortegocactus, lophs and Trichocereus. I still have a few of those that have recovered and are doing fine now.

Have they been in intense light/temperatures lately?

It could also be what naum suggests and if that were the case a fungicide could help.


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: karode13]
    #14266857 - 04/10/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the replies, helpful as usual!

Too much light/high temperatures: I don't think that's it, because it isn't summer yet and they already (mostly) survived a full summer. The damping-off thing is much more likely and really sounds like it.

I have sooo many questions...

- How/when sohuld I use a fungicide? Straight from sowing? When should I repeat treatment? Should I?

- Should I dilute the fungicide a bit more than suggested for outdoor use?

- How long will a systemic fungicide stay in the system (I'm growing edibles as well - hot peppers in particular).

By the way Karode, I really like your cactus germination tek, the food containers are cool, cheap, stackable, discardable and all. I just wonder - no holes in the bottom... wouldn't it worsen the fungus attack? I'm going to try anyway, I've got many cactus seeds and  I can't wait anymore :-)


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: globos]
    #14270732 - 04/11/11 05:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Glad you found my sowing tek useful. I just stole the idea off some other cactus grower.

I've never had an issue with fungus. I occasionally get some algae but this is easily controlled. The trick is to not have your soil too wet to begin with. It takes some practice but it certainly isn't hard, just observe and be careful in how you apply moisture. You can always apply more later but removing excess is very difficult.

I have since moved on to yoghurt containers, use old plastic bags for my lid and use an elastic band to secure it. Recycling FTW!!

On to the fungicides...or maybe not.

I think you may be better off transplanting the surviving seedlings to fresh soil. I say this because if it is damping off it will be in the soil and if the conditions are favourable again it will no doubt attack your seedlings.

Just to answer your questions quickly:


Quote:

How/when should I use a fungicide? Straight from sowing? When should I repeat treatment? Should I?




From the start is best. This way you prevent an infection from occurring. If an outbreak does pop up and you haven't been using one sometimes it's too late for a fungicide. Repeating treatment would depend on the fungicide you have. It should have this written on the label somewhere one would hope.



Quote:

Should I dilute the fungicide a bit more than suggested for outdoor use?




No. Just do as the directions say to do. Using less wont do the job and using more is a waste and this is a major cause of pollution today. Use the recommended dilution.




Quote:

How long will a systemic fungicide stay in the system (I'm growing edibles as well - hot peppers in particular)





This will depend on the systemic that is used. On the label it should have a withholding period. This is there so you know when it is safe to pick produce that has been sprayed with agrichemicals. Each chemical has its own time period. Some, like white oil for example, do not have a withholding period.


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Invisibleglobos
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Re: Weaning from propagator [Re: karode13]
    #14291961 - 04/14/11 06:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

OK Karode, thanks. After reading your reply I made some fungicide solution at the recommended dilution and sprayed some on the "old" seedling as well as on the new seeds I just sowed today: a few varieties of loph, some cactus mix and 13 herb pots. I'll be sure to post as the matter progresses.

EDIT: the guy where I bought the propamocarb-based fungicide said the withholding time is around a couple of weeks, but he was quoting from memory and I don't know how reliable he is. Does it sound like a good estimate?


Edited by globos (04/15/11 07:48 AM)


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