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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14046621 - 03/01/11 01:49 AM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

13.step said:

Shit is delicious bro.

Weak insult, you're a gay virgin.




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Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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OfflineMoxyOx
Grazin'

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 1,439
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: 13.step]
    #14048331 - 03/01/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45#B4

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

Check THESE studies out nigga.

As someone already said processed meat does not equate to raw, unprocessed meat. That is by far the largest variable that influenced the trend in that study, and it any credibility it had on that topic.

But yea, fish is good too. You're a land creature though, you should try eating more... land creatures.


--------------------
No one behind, no one ahead.
The path the ancients cleared has closed.
And the other path, everyone's path,
easy and wide, goes nowhere.
I am alone and find my way.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: MoxyOx]
    #14048417 - 03/01/11 01:01 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

MoxyOx said:
http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45#B4

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

Check THESE studies out nigga.

As someone already said processed meat does not equate to raw, unprocessed meat. That is by far the largest variable that influenced the trend in that study, and it any credibility it had on that topic.


It's impossible not to group those two. It is usually the case that people who choose to eat red meat, tend to also eat processed meats.

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to credibility.

The studies you show don't even relate to this topic. Where is red meat even mentioned?



Unless you care to show me where the relevance is, I can't see any reason to jump to the conclusion that the study is irrelevant.

Clearly, many people who eat red meat, eat processed meats.


Does that mean that this study relates to people who don't eat processed meats but eat?  Nop, but yes, most people who eat red meat, eat processed meats, this is obvious.


But yea, fish is good too. You're a land creature though, you should try eating more... land creatures.

Why am I a land creature? Last I checked, my hands and feet and brain make me perfectly adept to eating seafood.

Seafood would also be much easier and safer for us to eat because we wouldn't have to compete with predators for the seafood. So seafood makes most sense actually, particularly mollusks/seaweed/coastal fish.

Name one predator on the coast that could kill us while gathering clams/oysters/crab/seaweed and coral fish?

We seem way more adept to eating coastal seafood.

In a bit I will show you some other studies that don't group processed meats that show a positive association with cancers and red meat consumption.








--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14048452 - 03/01/11 01:09 PM (13 years, 4 days ago)

God damn I hate your retarded way of quoting and responding...you're not special...poast like normal folk.


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Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: 13.step]
    #14054583 - 03/02/11 01:21 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Yes, you need to add in some [ /quote]s to show where you respond.

Saying that people who eat red meat eat processed meat, doesn't make red meat unhealthy.  You are having some serious logic issues.

I do agree on the seafood front however.  There is evidence to suggest the first meat our primate ancestors ate was seafood collected from the coast.

This however doesn't meat eating meat is bad in any way.

Take a moment to think about this man, you are a mammal, so are cows, pigs, lambs, venison etc.  You share a very, very, very similar metabolism (and required nutrients) as other mammals.  It is then reasonable to conclude that everything you need to keep yourself healthy will be contained within animals (as the Inuit show).  You must eat the nutrient dense organ meats though.

I don't think you realize just how nutrient and calorie dense healthy meat is.

If you live where I do (Montreal) there is no fresh local seafood, but tons of fresh local pig and cows.

It is more about living sustainable WITHIN your environment.  If you live in a coastal area, eat all the fish you can get.  If you live in the tropics you can eat fresh produce all year long.  If you live in an area with a significant winter like me, YOU CAN'T.  Without buying foods which have consumed lots of fossil fuels to make it to me, my choices are winter squash and local meat.

Once society collapses, good lucky eating fruits, veggies and fish for the rest of your life.

Take Cuba for example, they don't cut any grass.  They have animals that graze the grass that they eat.

Instead, in our societies we pay people to cut and remove the grass when we could be raising healthy food for the masses.

Animals are also crucial to small diverse farms, they graze grass and return fertilizer.  You are basing all this stuff off of these health studies, but you aren't taking into account other factors like where you live, and eating sustainably.

The oceans are being fished to depletion, I hope you like squid and meal worms.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: Cannashroom]
    #14061619 - 03/03/11 05:33 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

One more thing:

It is all about balance of the ecosystem, if we are being a cancer to the earth, those activities give us cancer (Oh the irony).  Things harmful to the enviornment: Pollution, nuclear testing, mass monocrop agriculture (with herbicides/pesticides to make refined carbs and sugar to cause cancer), fertilizer run off.

This cancer epidemic reflects how we are acting as a cancer on the earth.  Using up all the resources without regard to how we will survive later and poisoning ourselves as we proceed.

You are focusing way too much on the small things and not on the big picture of how you live your life overall in relation to your environment.  If you respect the food you eat more, you will respect the environment and yourself more.

Lastly, for the meat thing:  All the studies are done with meat, probably cooked too much.  Raw meats have no carcinogenic potential (if they have not been eating toxic laden foods that is).

Cancer is a lifestyle disease, maybe red meat is associated with some of those lifestyles, it is not associated with cancer.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Invisibleowls
just let go!


Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,485
Loc: dancing Flag
Re: Check this study out. [Re: Cannashroom]
    #14062342 - 03/03/11 07:27 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

owned.

thanks for the info man :thumbup:


--------------------
i love you

you are beautiful! :rockon:



COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!

"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?" :mushroom2:

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: Cannashroom]
    #14066585 - 03/04/11 02:22 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:
One more thing:

It is all about balance of the ecosystem, if we are being a cancer to the earth, those activities give us cancer (Oh the irony).  Things harmful to the enviornment: Pollution, nuclear testing, mass monocrop agriculture (with herbicides/pesticides to make refined carbs and sugar to cause cancer), fertilizer run off.

This cancer epidemic reflects how we are acting as a cancer on the earth.  Using up all the resources without regard to how we will survive later and poisoning ourselves as we proceed.

You are focusing way too much on the small things and not on the big picture of how you live your life overall in relation to your environment.  If you respect the food you eat more, you will respect the environment and yourself more.

Lastly, for the meat thing:  All the studies are done with meat, probably cooked too much.  Raw meats have no carcinogenic potential (if they have not been eating toxic laden foods that is).

Cancer is a lifestyle disease, maybe red meat is associated with some of those lifestyles, it is not associated with cancer.





Where is your proof?

I haven't once seen you try and prove with any reference outside of your own mind;

1. That pasturized meats are not correlated positively to cancer.

2. The it is actually over-cooked meat that causes cancer and not meat.


Your other points about cancer being a lifestyle, I agree, however, being more green with your food isn't necessarily ensuring that your not getting toxins in your food.

There are plenty of bioaccumulants in our water and air that accumulate in all meat, but mostly red meat.

I have seen studies that show that pesticides cause cancer, so it makes sense to eat pastured meats as long as pesticides are not being used in the hay.

There isn't conclusive evidence yet that overcooking is in fact what causes cancer in humans.

It might be true and there is good evidence to show that, however, Heterocyclic amines actually develop in meats, particularly red meats, the moment you cook them. Smoking is usually the only process that doesn't cause them to exist in meat.

You have to provide me with studies that show conclusively that this is the case otherwise, your talking out of your ass in my POV.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: owls]
    #14066610 - 03/04/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

owls said:
owned.

thanks for the info man :thumbup:





:lol:

OOOOOOO NOOOB researcher got OWNED.

hahahahaha

The info?

Dude, your couldn't tell good info from a hole in your ass.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14066712 - 03/04/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Well you're a thick cunt aren't you? I posted a study that proved more conclusive than your study that barbecued meat is actually linked to cancer. It was just 2 pages ago, your highness will surely get of that high horse and look at it, right?

And a real question, are you a vegan? Or vegetarian? You sound like a food-terrorist from what I gather. Please answer this and don't start some unrelated bullshit.


--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14066890 - 03/04/11 03:22 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

A big factor here is the Omega3/6 ratio.  In grass fed meat it is the healthy 1-3:1, in fact many of the anti-cancerous benefits from fish come from the omega-3s, which are present in the grass fed meat (Can we say Owned again?)

Meat that is raised in an unhealthy manner will be unhealthy.

As for bioaccumulation, well you should be practicing regular detox techniques like sauna/yoga, chelation, clays etc.

I can list studies all day, but they don't prove shit.  You are relying on these small details way too much rather than your overall lifestyle.  Having a steak isn't going to give you cancer.  But having an over-cooked factory farmed steak every day without exercise or detox might.

Do you think eating a perfectly healthy human would give you cancer (ethical questions aside)?  It has everything you need to survive and if not contaminated nothing else.  The same goes for the cows.  It is only when the animal is unhealthy and getting cancer it will pass it on to you.  This more about common sense and a knowledge of biochemistry than specific studies.

Sometimes, you need to use your own knowledge and critical thinking skills to look at the issue without relying so heavily on specific confirmation.  Sometimes, you need to think for yourself.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: 13.step]
    #14066939 - 03/04/11 03:32 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/3/515.abstract

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199012133232404

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.2910490408/abstract

As I said plenty of times, there is more than one variable that must be considered in linking red meat intake to cancer.

As I also said, I agree that HCA's are carcinogenic and increase cancer incidence.

However, I also said that they are other problems associated with red meat intake such as the higher accumulation of toxic chemicals/metals, higher fat percentages and increased endogenous production of NOC.

There also is not consistent evidence with cooking methods and hetero cyclic amines.

As seen here, this study suggest otherwise.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-3W9KVPB-B&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F27%2F1999&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1665512260&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=77a82ddcf33944461eb18e1662f1a6e0&searchtype=a

:facepalm:

BTW since your probally to slow to understand, the first three links show other possible etimological factors involved in the increased risk of colorectal cancer and meat consumption.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Invisibleowls
just let go!


Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,485
Loc: dancing Flag
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14067074 - 03/04/11 04:02 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

owls said:
owned.

thanks for the info man :thumbup:





:lol:

OOOOOOO NOOOB researcher got OWNED.

hahahahaha

The info?

Dude, your couldn't tell good info from a hole in your ass.




why are you getting so heated over this mane? we're just trying to help. sometimes i can just feel or perceive what is worthy info and what is not, i guess i just have a special gift :shrug:

i love you :heart:


--------------------
i love you

you are beautiful! :rockon:



COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!

"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?" :mushroom2:

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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14067102 - 03/04/11 04:07 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

You still didn't answer the question.

Well of course there are other factors involved in cancer but the third study YOU quoted says exactly that over-cooked meat increases cancer risk.

And STFU already with your bioaccumulation bullshit, one of the few, if not the only kind of meat to actually cause poisoning due to bioaccumulation is tuna...so there goes your red-meat bioaccumulation theory down the drain.

From what I can see you hate red-meat and are a very frustrated little fellow...

Oh and there's another thing, diet, exercise, detox and all that rap, only decrease/increase risk of cancer, you can get cancer eating gods own personal diet, drinking john the baptists water and working out and detoxing with Jesus himself, it's just the funny way genetics work...


--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14069084 - 03/04/11 11:56 PM (13 years, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/3/515.abstract

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199012133232404

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.2910490408/abstract

As I said plenty of times, there is more than one variable that must be considered in linking red meat intake to cancer.

As I also said, I agree that HCA's are carcinogenic and increase cancer incidence.

However, I also said that they are other problems associated with red meat intake such as the higher accumulation of toxic chemicals/metals, higher fat percentages and increased endogenous production of NOC.

There also is not consistent evidence with cooking methods and hetero cyclic amines.

As seen here, this study suggest otherwise.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-3W9KVPB-B&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F27%2F1999&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1665512260&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=77a82ddcf33944461eb18e1662f1a6e0&searchtype=a

:facepalm:

BTW since your probally to slow to understand, the first three links show other possible etimological factors involved in the increased risk of colorectal cancer and meat consumption.




I am about to be hired as a researcher after graduating with honors in biochemistry, and you say I am too slow to understand the studies?

Those studies don't draw any solid conclusions, stop trying to cite studies because you don't understand how it works.

You can't just post studies and say they prove your point, you have to make a coherent argument and post them as proof, something you have failed to do.

Say I am too stupid to understand the studies, but that is what I am going to get paid for (along with doing actual lab work of course).

You're just getting too emotional and making ad homenin attacks on other posters, not helping your argument.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: Check this study out. [Re: Cannashroom]
    #14069364 - 03/05/11 01:35 AM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/3/515.abstract

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199012133232404

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.2910490408/abstract

As I said plenty of times, there is more than one variable that must be considered in linking red meat intake to cancer.

As I also said, I agree that HCA's are carcinogenic and increase cancer incidence.

However, I also said that they are other problems associated with red meat intake such as the higher accumulation of toxic chemicals/metals, higher fat percentages and increased endogenous production of NOC.

There also is not consistent evidence with cooking methods and hetero cyclic amines.

As seen here, this study suggest otherwise.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-3W9KVPB-B&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F27%2F1999&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1665512260&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=77a82ddcf33944461eb18e1662f1a6e0&searchtype=a

:facepalm:

BTW since your probally to slow to understand, the first three links show other possible etimological factors involved in the increased risk of colorectal cancer and meat consumption.




I am about to be hired as a researcher after graduating with honors in biochemistry, and you say I am too slow to understand the studies?

Those studies don't draw any solid conclusions, stop trying to cite studies because you don't understand how it works.

You can't just post studies and say they prove your point, you have to make a coherent argument and post them as proof, something you have failed to do.

Say I am too stupid to understand the studies, but that is what I am going to get paid for (along with doing actual lab work of course).

You're just getting too emotional and making ad homenin attacks on other posters, not helping your argument.





Wow you really are stupid.

You can't even understand how posting on this forum works.

:lol:

i was talking to 13.step that imbecil called me a cunt.

And what makes you think i can believe you?

You can't even fucking site on bloody study, nor do you know what the fuck you are talking about come to think about it.

Still waiting on the studies there bud....

And yes, its much more complicated than hetero cyclic amines.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14069379 - 03/05/11 01:40 AM (13 years, 21 hours ago)

Hey...rate me if you don't like it...i have the decency to offer you this right...oh wait, you can't :rofl2:

Are you a vegan/vegetarian/food terrorist? That might explain why you hide in this corner of the shroomery and are an incoherent ball of anger, and I called you a thick cunt.


--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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OfflineCannashroom
Smoke two Joints
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: 13.step]
    #14070550 - 03/05/11 11:43 AM (13 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

n a new study, researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) have found that eating processed meat, such as bacon, sausage or processed deli meats, was associated with a 42% higher risk of heart disease and a 19% higher risk of type 2 diabetes. In contrast, the researchers did not find any higher risk of heart disease or diabetes among individuals eating unprocessed red meat, such as from beef, pork, or lamb.




Quote:

The following is a quotation from USA Today.

    06/22/2001 - Updated 05:18 PM ET

    LYON, France (June 23) - Eating lots of preserved meats such as salami, bacon, cured ham and hot dogs could increase the risk of bowel cancer by 50 percent, early results of a major new study have suggested.

    However, when it came to fresh red meat - beef, lamb, pork and veal - there seemed to be no link.




No matter what I post you will never change your mind.  But you see when the researchers actually separate processed and red meats, the results are drastically different.  I don't feel like searching pubmed for real abstracts atm (do that enough during the week).

I have spent the last 4 years studying biochemistry and cancer in university, and you claim I don't know what I am talking about.  I work in a cancer research lab ffs, you're grasping at straws with your ad homenin attacks.  I'm not posting here anymore, you're too fucking ignorant, brainwashed and stubborn to have an open mind.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Check this study out. [Re: Cannashroom]
    #14071212 - 03/05/11 02:31 PM (13 years, 8 hours ago)

Hey don't leave...stay for the insults, he seems to like it, probably a big part of his limited human interaction...:lol:

Jkg, jkg alpha...you're just thick that's all...


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Not to be taken seriously by any means!

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