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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest.
    #14068759 - 03/04/11 10:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The situation in the middle east if out of control.

Fuck, i wish the damn economy wasn't so dependent on oil.....

What are your predictions on the distress and protests?

How long are they going to last and what are the reprucussions for people of the west?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14068767 - 03/04/11 10:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Fuck, i wish the damn economy wasn't so dependent on oil.....




Me too.  Isnt this just the kind of thing that would help change that dependency?

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OfflineGoldboy
Stranger
Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 50
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14068865 - 03/04/11 11:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This is all just good reasons the oil companies can use to jack the fuel prices.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Goldboy]
    #14068896 - 03/04/11 11:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

They don't need a reason to do that.  Well, thats not quite true - the only reason they need, and the only real reason there is to jack up prices is if you the consumer are willing to pay it.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Goldboy]
    #14068901 - 03/04/11 11:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm fine, I'll wait it out. If they get democracy it is worth every penny. Hell of a lot cheaper than that ridiculous war in Iraq.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14068956 - 03/04/11 11:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea whatsoever. :wink:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14069214 - 03/05/11 12:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Fuck, i wish the damn economy wasn't so dependent on oil.....




Me too.  Isnt this just the kind of thing that would help change that dependency?





Go on, please.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: zorbman]
    #14069218 - 03/05/11 12:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
I have no idea whatsoever. :wink:





Nice.

Me to sometimes.

:smirk:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14069222 - 03/05/11 12:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
I'm fine, I'll wait it out. If they get democracy it is worth every penny. Hell of a lot cheaper than that ridiculous war in Iraq.





Why are you fine?

What kind of livelihood do you have that doesn't depend on the economy?

You do know that if a civil war opens up in saudi arabia, it will last for a long while and seriously disrupt the economy.

i hope i don't sound like i am criticizing anybody, i just kind of skip the small talk.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


Edited by AlphaFalfa (03/05/11 12:39 AM)

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14069290 - 03/05/11 01:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Are you kidding? If oil goes up Alberta will flare up like nuts for employment. I'll probibly have people begging me to come and work there. Still, I live near an electric based mass transit system where little if any of the electricity comes from oil. Some commodities that take oil to produce or get to market will maybe go up in price, but realistically I'm unphased by nominal price increases... at least for myself. We could realistically see food riots because of this in some developing nations but after last years supply based shortages, it's not surprising.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (03/05/11 01:03 AM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14069309 - 03/05/11 01:08 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Are you kidding? If oil goes up Alberta will flare up like nuts for employment. I'll probibly have people begging me to come and work there. Still, I live near an electric based mass transit system where little if any of the electricity comes from oil. Some commodities that take oil to produce or get to market will maybe go up in price, but realistically I'm unphased by nominal price increases... at least for myself. We could realistically see food riots because of this in some developing nations but after last years supply based shortages, it's not surprising.





Wait, what makes you think that employment levels will rise in alberta?

More production in the tar sands?

i don't buy it.

Whats the reason for your conclusion?

is there any previous examples that we can work from ?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14069935 - 03/05/11 08:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yea more production in the tar sands and everything else that jizzes out crude oil all over the flat barren canola-scape (just saying there is more than just the tar sands, though the tar sands are massive). Besides I am doubtful that any prolonged unrest could/would happen in Saudi Arabia between the SA military and the US. It's unlikely that it will turn into Libya.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14070139 - 03/05/11 09:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Fuck, i wish the damn economy wasn't so dependent on oil.....




Me too.  Isnt this just the kind of thing that would help change that dependency?





Go on, please.




When oil is expensive there is economic incentive to develop alternative energy sources.  Oil has been cheap for the past hundred years, that is why there has been low incentive.  With respect to ending dependency on oil, high oil prices is the best thing that could happen.  We just have to work to make sure that it happens gradually and regularly enough that individuals and corporations can cope with the change.  I think it will.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14070694 - 03/05/11 12:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
I'm fine, I'll wait it out. If they get democracy it is worth every penny. Hell of a lot cheaper than that ridiculous war in Iraq.



Iraq is a democracy.  Do you think Iran is?


--------------------

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14070777 - 03/05/11 12:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Energy is but a fraction of what we derive from oil and natural gas.

The problem with oil is that its derivatives are used in almost all industrial processes; from food additives, to agricultural chemicals to plastics to pharmaceuticals to personal care products.


That's why oil has such a far expansive impact on our economy.


Nitrogen fertilizer, derived primarily through natural gas, is a commodity that is largely pegged to the price of oil.

Natural gas prices and oil prices share a very tight relationship.

Almost all pharmaceuticals and pesticides are created through derivatives of oil.

The list expands to almost all aspects of life and certainly covers the most important.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14070786 - 03/05/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yea, but enough energy could nearly supplant the need of fossil fuels.  If we develop nuclear fusion, we can synthesize just about any hydrocarbon we want from the waste products.  But in lieu of that silver bullet, high oil prices will spur the development of not only alternative energy sources but also alternative hydrocarbon sources.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14071469 - 03/05/11 03:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What is the status of these SA protests? I haven't heard of any thing more than simple protests. Are there deaths? How many people? Is there any area where culmination and gathering of the protesters is constant?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 3 days
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14071529 - 03/05/11 03:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
What is the status of these SA protests? I haven't heard of any thing more than simple protests. Are there deaths? How many people? Is there any area where culmination and gathering of the protesters is constant?




The Kingdom just banned all demonstrations. Violators face arrest.

But no bother, the Saudi stock market is up and the panem et circenses are being distributed.



--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
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Registered: 10/28/09
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14071566 - 03/05/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
When oil is expensive there is economic incentive to develop alternative energy sources.  Oil has been cheap for the past hundred years, that is why there has been low incentive.  With respect to ending dependency on oil, high oil prices is the best thing that could happen.  We just have to work to make sure that it happens gradually and regularly enough that individuals and corporations can cope with the change.  I think it will.





I think it's far more likely that we'll just start drilling up Alaska and our oceans.  Eventually that'll lead to another spill, which will cause even more damage to the economy.  But as a nation we're far too near sighted to care about that.

After all, the "drill baby drill" party is probably going to be in office in 2012.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: d33p]
    #14071570 - 03/05/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The saudi's banned demonstrations.

Meaning that they are threatening people by force not to protest.

Not sure if thats going to stop the protests.

Keep in mind when thinking about this issue that 35% of people aged 15-25 are unemployed.


Its a messy situation.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14071595 - 03/05/11 04:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yea, I mean Qaddafi and Mubarak both banned demonstrations, this isn't an indicator.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14071786 - 03/05/11 04:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I am seriously just trying to push it out of my mind.

And hopefully that on the 11th and 20th, the protests are just a small number of people.

What worries me most is the damn unemployment of people 15-24. Although i do imagine that 50% of that enemployment number spans from the 15-18 age group, still thats a big number. 60% of saudi arabias population is under the age of 30.

:crying:

Oh well, I am having a birthday party today, so hopefully i can keep my mind level.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14072235 - 03/05/11 06:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Worrying about world conditions won't help anything.

Don't worry, be happy? 

or as Mr. Natural sez: "Twas ever thus"


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14073323 - 03/05/11 10:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I like death at this point.

Life never begets ones happiness in these times.

In retrospect, the world isn't the type of world we all think it is.

Sure, it can help to say not to worry.

But even that is just temporary.

Hopefully death is better than this.

Hopefully.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14073346 - 03/05/11 10:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah all temporary. I'm sure some yahoos were having similar conversations back in Egypt.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14073811 - 03/06/11 12:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah all temporary. I'm sure some yahoos were having similar conversations back in Egypt.:lol:





What does that mean?

I understood that a potential conflict in saudi arabia would only be temporary?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14074706 - 03/06/11 08:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What does that mean?

It means this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14077134 - 03/06/11 06:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ya know Icelander sometimes your nihilistic urge to not contribute anything to conversation is irritating.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14077177 - 03/06/11 06:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

I contribute a lot but it goes beyond your understanding at this point in your young life.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14078207 - 03/06/11 09:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What does that mean?

It means this.





Just passing time is peaceful. If these protests become serious a potential war between iran and saudi arabia may ensue or a civil war may ensue. This will throw the global economy into another recession and there goes any chance I can fullfill my dreams and live a half decent life.

I live in a city and there will be an increase likelihood of violent crim and a decrease in the over all availability of food/energy.

I can't help but worry. You've already lived a lot of your life, you've seen many things. I on the other hand are young and eager, I haven't even been given a chance.

And although most in this world wouldn't even complain given my circumstance, being brought up in the west has given me a high taste of things that rely heavily on the economy.

I can't help but worry to be honest, I can hardly find work as it is. Another recession would surely crush many of my dreams in an instant.

Can you still say, oh hey...shucks, lets not worry.

Just passin time'.
????


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14078422 - 03/06/11 10:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This will throw the global economy into another recession and there goes any chance I can fullfill my dreams and live a half decent life.


That's right, but before that can happen you  might find out you have terminal cancer or die in a car accident.

And you're right, I worry a lot less than when I was younger and thought that I was going to make something of my life. Now I know that's not going to solve anything. I'm just passing thru.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14078589 - 03/06/11 10:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I could, but the chances of me getting killed by those things are way less likely than middle east conflicts.

I just don't think it helps much to say 'Twas ever thus'.

Thats all.

I think you have life pretty damn good. Your not working, you intellectualize all day, your have developed a nice outlook on life - you've also satisfied your curiosity in whatever 50 + years you've been around in a peaceful western world.

But now it is a different world, there is turmoil and yet I have the same curiosity to fullfill.

Its really hard.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14079754 - 03/07/11 06:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I could, but the chances of me getting killed by those things are way less likely than middle east conflicts.

I just don't think it helps much to say 'Twas ever thus'.

Thats all.

I think you have life pretty damn good. Your not working, you intellectualize all day, your have developed a nice outlook on life - you've also satisfied your curiosity in whatever 50 + years you've been around in a peaceful western world.

But now it is a different world, there is turmoil and yet I have the same curiosity to fullfill.

Its really hard.





I think your chances of dying of cancer or accident are tremendously higher than dying because of turmoil in the Middle East.  Don't you realize the world has always been fucked up like this.

I grew up in a very abusive home and got the shit kicked out of me most of my young life.  My life is not much better or worse than yours son. The fact that I have made anything decent out of it is partly due to luck. 

Saying "Twas ever thus" is the best thing you could possible ever learn about life because it's absolutely the truth and if you can ever grok it even just a little your life will most likely improve dramatically.


The Buddha said that attachment is suffering.  Worry is attachment and it's obvious it's creating suffering for you.  This is all related to death anxiety which is really what is bugging us.  You can't live forever and your lot is not much different than someones at any other time in history. Make the most of your time here and quit worrying about things out of your control.  That's advice from someone who spent most of their life worrying.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14080477 - 03/07/11 11:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I could, but the chances of me getting killed by those things are way less likely than middle east conflicts.

I just don't think it helps much to say 'Twas ever thus'.

Thats all.

I think you have life pretty damn good. Your not working, you intellectualize all day, your have developed a nice outlook on life - you've also satisfied your curiosity in whatever 50 + years you've been around in a peaceful western world.

But now it is a different world, there is turmoil and yet I have the same curiosity to fullfill.

Its really hard.





I think your chances of dying of cancer or accident are tremendously higher than dying because of turmoil in the Middle East.  Don't you realize the world has always been fucked up like this.

I grew up in a very abusive home and got the shit kicked out of me most of my young life.  My life is not much better or worse than yours son. The fact that I have made anything decent out of it is partly due to luck.

Saying "Twas ever thus" is the best thing you could possible ever learn about life because it's absolutely the truth and if you can ever grok it even just a little your life will most likely improve dramatically.


The Buddha said that attachment is suffering.
  Worry is attachment and it's obvious it's creating suffering for you.  This is all related to death anxiety which is really what is bugging us.  You can't live forever and your lot is not much different than someones at any other time in history. Make the most of your time here and quit worrying about things out of your control.  That's advice from someone who spent most of their life worrying.




I agree, but in relation to the bold, there are indeed worst fates than death.

In relation to the second thing bolded, well my life was probably harder than your when I was growing up.

In relation to the italic, I do 'grok' it. It just doesn't stop anxiety I get from potentially having a serious reduction in the standard of living.


In relation to the bold/italic, the bhudda says that because he is a well fed, chubby, dude who spent most his life in a beautiful landscape with people who respect him and think he is a god. He's never worked a day in his bloddy life. Ever wonder why he can't help people who live a normal 9-5 life?

The bhudda doesn't know shit about how to deal with the things we do.

I want to see the bhudda tell a mother of four with no job and an abusive dad that 'attachment is the source of suffering'

I want to see the bhudda tell a little african kid that the fucking cause of his suffering is 'attachment'

No icelander, what I think might benefit you is just recognizing that not everyone has your life and that you haven't really thought about how these potential problems in the middle east might impact your life.

:sad:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14080542 - 03/07/11 11:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So tell me how hard your life has been. What's made your life so hard?

IMO I've thought about everything more and longer than you have.  I understand your fear.  You seem to have tons of it. Most people do.

My life is pretty average and I've given up a lot to retire early.  And if it changes then it changes and I'll make due because I'm a survivor in this world and if I'm wrong then I'll die sooner than later.  I'll take my chances without whining.  If I lose my car and my house and my limited finances because the world economy tanks well that's just what happens in my life.  Many have had it worse. 

As to the Buddha he was born into wealth and gave it all up and wasn't chubby as far as I know.  Pretty unusual I'd say.  The Buddha did tell all those people that attachment is the cause of suffering. Whining about it won't alter the truth of that.  Attachment does cause suffering and your posts are a great example of that imo. :shrug: You're all freaked out about something that likely won't even happen at least not right now or even in your lifetime.

You can't change much of what's going to happen in this age of human history.  Just do your best. If you're creative and smart and determined you'll do better than most and if you aren't then you'll struggle or fail no matter what. That's how it works dude. The ball is really in your court.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14080915 - 03/07/11 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Here's another way to look at it Alphafalfa, can you do anything to change the situation in Saudi Arabia? Even if people in the US or the world massively wanted democracy for SA it would not shift the US's position on it. It might not be worth worrying about, even if you have strong opinions or feelings as to a desired outcome.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14081955 - 03/07/11 03:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So tell me how hard your life has been. What's made your life so hard?

IMO I've thought about everything more and longer than you have.  I understand your fear.  You seem to have tons of it. Most people do.

My life is pretty average and I've given up a lot to retire early.  And if it changes then it changes and I'll make due because I'm a survivor in this world and if I'm wrong then I'll die sooner than later.  I'll take my chances without whining.  If I lose my car and my house and my limited finances because the world economy tanks well that's just what happens in my life.  Many have had it worse. 

As to the Buddha he was born into wealth and gave it all up and wasn't chubby as far as I know.  Pretty unusual I'd say.  The Buddha did tell all those people that attachment is the cause of suffering. Whining about it won't alter the truth of that.  Attachment does cause suffering and your posts are a great example of that imo. :shrug: You're all freaked out about something that likely won't even happen at least not right now or even in your lifetime.

You can't change much of what's going to happen in this age of human history.  Just do your best. If you're creative and smart and determined you'll do better than most and if you aren't then you'll struggle or fail no matter what. That's how it works dude. The ball is really in your court.




Look, i was never whining about anything.

i was merly saying that the potential exists and is becoming likely that an even will come where we are all being altered in our dealings with this conflict in the middle east.

You say don't worry and i say its not possible.

if your not worrying its because you probally don't see the gravity of this situation.


And you have made that clear to me by saying that it probably wont happen.

The thing is your experience doesn't and can't relate to the events taking place.

The time you grew up in was a dramatically different time than now.

But enough about this.

We misunderstand each other far to much.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14082055 - 03/07/11 04:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As Bernanke said, a short term spike in oil prices is water off a ducks back.  A long term dramatic increase is different.  But we have domestic resources to counter any foreign turmoil.  We just have to be willing to use it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14082103 - 03/07/11 04:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You can learn a lot from history but you haven't.

"Most humans don't learn from history and believe it began and will end with their lifetime." - Icelander

This is only a special time in history because it's the time you are personally aware and concerned about it. That doesn't mean similar things haven't happened before and we survived them just fine.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14082228 - 03/07/11 04:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
"Most humans don't learn from history and believe it began and will end with their lifetime." - Icelander




I think that's false, some people are like this and some people have one of those two characteristics but I find it highly unlikely that most people have both.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14082241 - 03/07/11 04:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's a quote from Ice. It can't be wrong. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14082277 - 03/07/11 04:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can learn a lot from history but you haven't.

"Most humans don't learn from history and believe it began and will end with their lifetime." - Icelander

This is only a special time in history because it's the time you are personally aware and concerned about it. That doesn't mean similar things haven't happened before and we survived them just fine.




Only a person who hasn't studied environmental studies and economics would say such nonsense.

We are in a completely different time in which the past cannot be applied strongly to as a way to indicate what the outcomes of present events will be.

For example, in the past countries could generally provide basic nessecities to themselves indipendent of other nations.

Now this is the opposite. Without the stability of other nations, namely oil rich nations and ones with a high productive capacity(such as USA/Europe/China) we wouldn't.

Name one time in history where this occured.

Sure there was trade; but trade wasn't what countries relied on for basic nessecity.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14082293 - 03/07/11 04:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

By past i mean priro to the 1960's. Before the green revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14082329 - 03/07/11 05:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
What are your predictions on the distress and protests?

How long are they going to last and what are the reprucussions for people of the west?




Could be rough going for a while. But it could bring a few good things, like the US and Canada could develop the resources we have right here on the continent, like the coal reserves of the US and Canada's vast tar sands, hopefully weaning them off foreign oil.

And maybe the people of the middle east would actually form a democracy in those countries, but given their track record, they'll probably wind up with another lunatic in charge.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14082453 - 03/07/11 05:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
What are your predictions on the distress and protests?

How long are they going to last and what are the reprucussions for people of the west?




Could be rough going for a while. But it could bring a few good things, like the US and Canada could develop the resources we have right here on the continent, like the coal reserves of the US and Canada's vast tar sands, hopefully weaning them off foreign oil.

And maybe the people of the middle east would actually form a democracy in those countries, but given their track record, they'll probably wind up with another lunatic in charge.




Yeah I doubt it will come to the point of recession/depression.

We will probably develope green energy moresoe as well.

I also agree with that sentiment. The middle east seems to be as you say it is.

I wouldn't mind a one world government with control of oil resources to be honest.

But that may be to hasty.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14082464 - 03/07/11 05:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You can learn a lot from history but you haven't.

"Most humans don't learn from history and believe it began and will end with their lifetime." - Icelander

This is only a special time in history because it's the time you are personally aware and concerned about it. That doesn't mean similar things haven't happened before and we survived them just fine.




Only a person who hasn't studied environmental studies and economics would say such nonsense.

We are in a completely different time in which the past cannot be applied strongly to as a way to indicate what the outcomes of present events will be.

For example, in the past countries could generally provide basic nessecities to themselves indipendent of other nations.

Now this is the opposite. Without the stability of other nations, namely oil rich nations and ones with a high productive capacity(such as USA/Europe/China) we wouldn't.

Name one time in history where this occured.

Sure there was trade; but trade wasn't what countries relied on for basic nessecity.





You must think I'm ancient. I'm talking about my working lifetime.  We've relied on from 35 to 60% on overseas oil.  I remember huge scares with long lines at the pumps and they limited how much gas you could buy. It was a fucking joke same as when people were afraid the world would run out of toilet paper.  Some people bought up years worth of the stuff. :lol:

And if we somehow cannot be a global economy anymore then we'll do what the Cubans did and all start growing food at home and make a change in lifestyle. But life will still go on.

Edited by Icelander (03/07/11 05:49 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14082893 - 03/07/11 06:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You can learn a lot from history but you haven't.

"Most humans don't learn from history and believe it began and will end with their lifetime." - Icelander

This is only a special time in history because it's the time you are personally aware and concerned about it. That doesn't mean similar things haven't happened before and we survived them just fine.




Only a person who hasn't studied environmental studies and economics would say such nonsense.

We are in a completely different time in which the past cannot be applied strongly to as a way to indicate what the outcomes of present events will be.

For example, in the past countries could generally provide basic nessecities to themselves indipendent of other nations.

Now this is the opposite. Without the stability of other nations, namely oil rich nations and ones with a high productive capacity(such as USA/Europe/China) we wouldn't.

Name one time in history where this occured.

Sure there was trade; but trade wasn't what countries relied on for basic nessecity.





You must think I'm ancient. I'm talking about my working lifetime.  We've relied on from 35 to 60% on overseas oil.  I remember huge scares with long lines at the pumps and they limited how much gas you could buy. It was a fucking joke same as when people were afraid the world would run out of toilet paper.  Some people bought up years worth of the stuff. :lol:

And if we somehow cannot be a global economy anymore then we'll do what the Cubans did and all start growing food at home and make a change in lifestyle. But life will still go on.





Oh joy.

Here we go over-simplifying things again.

Man, if you really have no clue what the hell you are even talking about do you?

Yeah, good luck growing food on baren lands and in the harsh climates that we grow food in!

Dude, you really oughta read up on the food system.

To understand this mess properly.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14083053 - 03/07/11 07:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You're not worried about me an I'm not worried about you remember.  I'm not worried if someone can't grow food as long as I can.  The world may have to face this sometime anyway.  I don't really expect us to be able to keep this up forever.

I'm well aware that we are facing a mess and famine may be something even first world countries will have to deal with.  I just don't think we're quite there yet.  In fact not in your lifetime most likely.

This isn't the first time I've had this conversation. It was going on big time in the 70s when I was in school. I even got scared but all the predictions just like the 2012 one came and went.  I don't freak out any more.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: Icelander]
    #14084658 - 03/08/11 12:57 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think that one of you is over exaggerating the situation and another is under exaggerating it.

Frankly, the shock will come and markets will be devastated but I doubt the most severe shortages will last more than a year, after which Saudi oil supply will either go back to normal levels or increase but not to previous levels. In other words once the crunch hits it will be too late to begin any programs that would seriously impact oil usage on the farm at the problem's initial peek. On the other hand if sustainable agriculturalists and those who want to put sustainable agriculture into the forefront of their national agricultural policy were to take advantage of the shock it is likely they could create a serious policy shift in a relatively quick period of time.

IMO though the biggest threat of democratization is to the US arms industry, not to industry in your area.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (03/08/11 01:08 AM)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14085007 - 03/08/11 03:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This is why we need to make sure that the new regime has to buy all new stuff.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14085338 - 03/08/11 06:14 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
I think that one of you is over exaggerating the situation and another is under exaggerating it.

Frankly, the shock will come and markets will be devastated but I doubt the most severe shortages will last more than a year, after which Saudi oil supply will either go back to normal levels or increase but not to previous levels. In other words once the crunch hits it will be too late to begin any programs that would seriously impact oil usage on the farm at the problem's initial peek. On the other hand if sustainable agriculturalists and those who want to put sustainable agriculture into the forefront of their national agricultural policy were to take advantage of the shock it is likely they could create a serious policy shift in a relatively quick period of time.

IMO though the biggest threat of democratization is to the US arms industry, not to industry in your area.





Nothing you project wouldn't fit in with my expectations.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Oil is going up in a few days. Saudi Protest. [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14086496 - 03/08/11 12:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
I think that one of you is over exaggerating the situation and another is under exaggerating it.

Frankly, the shock will come and markets will be devastated but I doubt the most severe shortages will last more than a year, after which Saudi oil supply will either go back to normal levels or increase but not to previous levels. In other words once the crunch hits it will be too late to begin any programs that would seriously impact oil usage on the farm at the problem's initial peek. On the other hand if sustainable agriculturalists and those who want to put sustainable agriculture into the forefront of their national agricultural policy were to take advantage of the shock it is likely they could create a serious policy shift in a relatively quick period of time.

IMO though the biggest threat of democratization is to the US arms industry, not to industry in your area.





:lol:

And the oversimplification begins!

I never said that we are going to see a fuel shortage!

I said that our economy being as weak as it is MIGHT double-dip or enter another recession.

Also, one thing you may not know is that EVEN when oil prices stabalize, a global economy in a recession does not come out of it, once oil prices stabalize. Rather it comes out of it when consumer/investor confidence is back and people stat spending to create jobs.


All I was saying with this post is that there exists the potential for our economy to double dip, which would bring us to a new low and a bigger hole to dig ourselves out of.

Finally, sustainable agriculturalists won't get shit from this. Sustainable agriculture cannot feed a society that depends largely on grains for feed to eat its main staple; beef, pork, chicken.

You can't sustainably farm grains, its an absurd concept. Sure you can have a plot of sustainably farmed grain here and there, but you won't even touch 1% of the total demand.

Also, this crisis won't affect food. It will affect food prices/jobs. Thats about it.

Food will still be available, but people will have to spend a larger percentage of their income for it.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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