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somedaysoon
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Registered: 02/07/11
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questions for first grow
#14066500 - 03/04/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've never grown anything before, and I have a tendency to overthink, so knowing very little to begin with and having so much available info can be a bad thing. After spending many hours reading many, many threads, I went the lazy way and ordered a reasonably priced all-in-one kit with 12 pre-done cake jars, then ordered 3 syringes with B+ spores from a shroomery sponsor. With all the threads I read, it seemed like building a full-blown glovebox may be overkill just to inoc a few jars, so I used the "over the edge of a surface" tek I saw a few different times (see avatar), the kitchen bar is a good height for me. My orders arrived in the mail this week, so it was time to start this little experiment, this how I spent my afternoon......
1. Bought 58qt sterilite container and bottle of 70% alcohol 2. Put sprayer top on alcohol bottle, sprayed down inside of box, wiped it down, then let it air out while I put on long-sleeved shirt and latex gloves 3. Sprayed and wiped down the counter top, then used alcohol-soaked paper towel to wipe down top, bottom, and side surfaces of 8 jars 4. Flipped box onto counter, placed jars and syringe in box, taped the edges of the box to minimize airflow 5. Assembled spore syringe (B+ strain), flamed needle until red hot, inoced jar 1 & 2 6. Wiped needle with alcohol-soaked paper towel, reflamed needle, inoced jar 3 & 4. Had trouble inocing #4, the needle tip was jammed 7. By now noticed I had used almost 7cc's of spore solution, so I repeated step 6 for jars 5 & 6. Had trouble getting needle red hot again, looked like carbon build up, so I did what I could, finishing the syringe
At this point I noticed that I melted a small hole in the top of the box when flaming the needle, so between being generally nervous about everything and emptying the syringe, it seemed like a good time to stop. I placed the inocced jars in a different, pre-heated tub for incubation, tore down the set up and started typing. So now I've got a few questions that I'm hoping the experienced cultivators/mods wouldn't mind answering.
1. How was my set up? Any suggestions for improving? 2. The two jars I wiped but didn't use, I re-wrapped the lids with foil and put them with the unopened jars in a dresser drawer. How long should they be good for? 3. With the build-up on the needle, is that a big risk for contamination? 4. The unused syringes will be in the same dresser drawer as the unused jars, how long are they good for?
That's all the ?s for now, really depends on what happens over the next week or so to see how I did
thanks in advance for the inputs
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ar1es
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14067533 - 03/04/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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should flame needle in between each jar
-------------------- " here is nothing lost or wasted in this life.” - Bhagavad Gita
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: ar1es]
#14067951 - 03/04/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You don't even need alcohol to prepare your glovebox, its just a fire hazard. All glove boxes need is water to be sprayed inside and wiped around. You want the bottom to still be decently wet when your working in there as this will catch any contaminants that land there.
You don't need to tape the lid to the box, the airflow should be significantly impeded. It would be very tedious to do that every inoculation.
What temperature do you plan to incubate the jars at and what is your container?
If your having problems flaming needles you might want to either make an alcohol lamp or buy a butane powered microtorch which you could use quickly and efficiently inside of your GB.
2. The jars should last a week, maybe longer.
3. I get carbon deposits no matter what I flame with. Neither rusty lids nor carbon deposits on needles will cause any problems for mycelium.
4. I have spore syringes I got last summer that are still good today.
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mabachko
Just Strange



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: Wise Toad]
#14068208 - 03/04/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm pretty new at this, but if your syringe plugged then maybe ur needle is to small, try 16 gauge
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mabachko
Just Strange



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: mabachko]
#14068333 - 03/04/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Still working on my 1st grow. Bought 2 68 Qrt clear totes. the tops were white so I cut a hole in the top of them the size that a clear food wrap would cover, approx. 12 inches & duct tape the wrap to the openning. For the glove box I cut 2 4inch holes for my arms to go in. That was it for the holes in the glove box. I didn't have a PC at the time so I bought on line 2 spawn bags of rye. these were pre filled & sterilized. Prior to inoculating I placed bags and syringe, bic lighter, a bottle of alcohol & paper towel in the glove box and sprayed the inside of the box with Lysol tile & bath spray. Then waited about 30 minutes. After 30 or so minutes I flamed needle & wiped down with alcohol & inoculated bag 1. This is the scary part,, Seeing how the alcohol fumes had nowhere to escape to I was nervous about flaming the needle prior to inoculating bag 2, but I didn't blow up.. It has been 11 days and they are colonizing just fine without any contam's that I can see. I did wear long sleves & a pair of $1.25 dishwashing gloves washed down with alcohol prior to sticking my arms in the box. My FC has about 20, 1/4 inch holes drilled about 3 inches up from the bottom & a 5/16 at the top where my air line will come in. U see I'm not a fan of venting so I am going to put an air line in that has a bubbler at the end of it into a glass of water. this will keep humidity up as well push out the bad air...Hope to have some good pics sonn. Good Luck
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Loc: Colorado
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: mabachko]
#14068348 - 03/04/11 09:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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No flame in the glovebox. For reals.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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mabachko
Just Strange



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: Doc_T]
#14068400 - 03/04/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Doc T. as soon as I went to flame the needle the 2nd time I knew I messed up so I stood there for a few extra minutes held my face back & sparked the lighter. I thought that I had wrote it so that they wouldn't do a dumb thing like I did, but now we have both clearly stated that a flame source & alcohol liquid or vapor, SHOULD NOT BE NEAR EACH OTHER OR USED INSIDE A GLOVE BOX. Thanks Again, Newb's such as myself learn somthing new everyday hopefully.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: mabachko]
#14068491 - 03/04/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also, you don't need alcohol. Wash out the glovebox with warm soapy water, rinse, air dry.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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mabachko
Just Strange



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: Doc_T]
#14068885 - 03/04/11 11:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey Doc T I used Lysol Bath & tile cleaner in my glove box. it says 99.9% & it seemed to do the job as I have not seen any contams. that is a lot easier than soapy water. What do u think okay or is this asking for problems with my box down the road.
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: mabachko]
#14068905 - 03/04/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think Lysol is great as a household cleaner but don't see much value in mycology. Soap and water, alcohol swabs, and diluted vinegar water in a spray bottle are all very good at killing contams or keeping them choked down. Bonus is that all 3 are environmentally friendly and are cheap.
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somedaysoon
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen]
#14082820 - 03/07/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the inputs, makes me a little less nervous, at least for now
I understand the comments about no alcohol and flame, the container did air out for about 5 minutes before I flipped it to inoc the jars, next time I'll probably go with soapy water just to be sure
Will remember to flame the needle for every jar next time, as long as it's ok to flame the needle just outside the container then quickly bring it inside, this and no alcohol should stop melting the top
The taping wasn't bad, three strips took < two minutes, the edge of the container was not flush with the counter top so it made me a little more at ease knowing that air could not flow up over the top of the jars
I've been checking the incubation container morning and night, temperature has been holding at a steady 80-82 degrees, 70% humidity
looking forward to the next couple of days to see what sprouts, will post pictures as soon as there's something to show, good or bad
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14083506 - 03/07/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
somedaysoon said: 1. How was my set up? Any suggestions for improving?
Get rid of your incubator. 70-75 degrees colonizes faster and is less likely to contam.
How much spore solution did you use per jar?? .5-1cc is good for each 1/2 pint. It slows colonization when it gets overly wet.
Quote:
2. The two jars I wiped but didn't use, I re-wrapped the lids with foil and put them with the unopened jars in a dresser drawer. How long should they be good for?
I would use them asap or toss them. Keep the glass tho. It's cheaper and easier to just make your own 2-1-1 verm/BRF/water mix anyways.
Quote:
3. With the build-up on the needle, is that a big risk for contamination?
No. Squirt a tiny bit of solution through the tip after each flame to cool it and remove burned debris. It was most likely a little BRF that stuck to the needle because it was hot when you inoculated.
Quote:
4. The unused syringes will be in the same dresser drawer as the unused jars, how long are they good for?
A while. I dont know the exact time, but i bet it would be longer in the fridge.
Don't worry so much and follow the teks. They work great that way.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (03/07/11 10:06 PM)
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somedaysoon
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UPDATE ____________________ Checked jars on day 5, not much going on, temp still around 82
Checked again on day 8, 1/2" white spots all 4 injection sites on all 6 jars, not too sure, sort of looked like cobweb mold I've seen people talk about
Day 10 did not check, saw other teks about temps being higher, going to raise temp to about 85
Checked today (day 12), and there's good growth!! 4 of the 6 are at least 50% covered, the other two are not far behind, rearranged jars to give slower jars a chance to catch up.
Looking back, jars have followed the pattern I saw under the one the the 5 stars teks that I saw and cannot find now
I keep seeing posts that make me think the jars are not going to last so I'm going to set up hood and inoc the other 6 jars, hope I haven't waited too long.......
Inoccing jars was easier this time, still used 1 whole syringe for only 6 jars, better too much than too little, numbered jars to keep track of batch 1 and batch 2
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14126312 - 03/15/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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seriously man, ditch the incubator and give them a little indirect light and room temps each day.
they will colonize super super fast and be far less likely to contam.
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
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Quote:
Inoccing jars was easier this time, still used 1 whole syringe for only 6 jars, better too much than too little,
Wrong, with spores, especially in BRF jars, you want maybe 1/2CC per injection hole. This is a few drops barely dribbling out. The more you add, the slower it will be to grow initially, and you run the risk of throwing your water content off. A drier sub is preferable to a wet sub, and less is more when it comes to spores.
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somedaysoon
Stranger


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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen]
#14197617 - 03/28/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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did not mean to use a whole for syringe for 6 jars, especially the second time, I was originally hoping to do all twelve jars with only one syringe. Not good with a needle I guess, practice makes perfect........
day 24 update Second set of six jars are coming along nicely so far, then I looked at first 6 jars, thought they were fully rooted so I set up fruiting chamber. Problem is I left the foil loosely on top of the jars while they incubated so I didn't notice the top 3/4" of jar still did not have roots. So obviously I had problems when I opened up first jar and tried to remove the cake to put in fruiting chamber. I put the top back on, put jar back in place with remaining jars, removed the foil off all the jars. Now I'm even more nervous I f'd things up, contamination is what I'm most worried about. All jars are now out of incubator, at room temp (about 76), waiting for roots to completely take over cake.
BTW, I really appreciate everyone's comments, I've learned a lot, I was wondering how to get I get direct dialogue with a moderator. I'm here not only to learn from everyone but also to learn from the best, so I'd like to know who I get them to review/comment on my post.
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14198840 - 03/28/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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The mods stay out of discussions 99% of the time. The people to look for accurate help have high post counts and trusted cultivator tags. Some people with high post counts have just been bullshitting in the public forum for 5 years so that's not always an accurate gauge.
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somedaysoon
Stranger


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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen]
#14268311 - 04/10/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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starting to get unhappy.....its been over a week since I put the first six jars in the fruiting chamber, temp/humidity has been steady around 80 degrees and 90% humidity, getting plenty of light as chamber is in front of a window (tinted so nosy people cannot see in). Still don't seem to have any growth, now it looks like I'm getting some white mold growing on top of mycelium. How can I tell if its positive growth or contamination?!?
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14268318 - 04/10/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You'll know if it's bad in 2-3 days. In the meantime, have patience. Mist and fan a few times a day.
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somedaysoon
Stranger


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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen]
#14277354 - 04/12/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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definitely mold, one is starting to turn from white to green. Now what? I know I have to clean/dry vermiculite, wipe down terrarium, then re-moisten vermiculite, this time with some hydrogen peroxide. I'm sort of in a hurry, I had one last jar of the first six , it now has a mushroom growing and it's not out of the jar, so there's still hope for the second batch.....And any tips on preventing the same mold the second time
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14279649 - 04/12/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Contams won't happen if the spawn and your syringe are clean and you follow sterile procedures. Also the cake must be healthy when it's birthed then given plenty of fresh air. When you say terrarium that scares me because lots of noobs think a 30gal fish tank is a fruiting chamber. It's not because it doesn't breathe. Contams can then sit on your cakes and eat them for dinner.
However, fully consolidated cakes that have been given an extra week in the jar after 100% colonization is reached are extremely resistant to contamination. It's unusual to have them give up before first flush which tells you something is off before they got to that point.
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somedaysoon
Stranger


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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen]
#14284771 - 04/13/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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the terrarium is a sterilite container with an fish tank air pump and HEPA in-line filter for FAE, the pump has a timer, was originally set for 30 minutes on every 12 hours, recently reset to be on for 2 hours every 12 hours, should it be longer?
jars were not 100% consolidated, did not check bottom of jar (opposite end of lid) so a couple went into the terrarium early, but I was getting mold on mycelium, not on exposed parts of subtrate
should there be mycelium on the part next touching the lid?
is 76 degrees and 90% humidity a good mix? Too much humidity?
Going to clean and reset terrarium on Friday, other jars looking more consolidated
I even have a 3 inch long mushroom already growing on one, not sure how that is going to work, may have left it in the jar too long…
Thanks for the help
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14287429 - 04/13/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sounds like you failed when you birthed too early. If mold grew on the mycelium, that tells me the cake wasn't strong enough yet (still in colonization mode) which is when it's fairly weak. Exposing it to contaminants before it has a lock on the substrate will usually kill the whole cake. Trichoderma produces toxins that poisons the cubensis mycelium, which is its way of winning the competition.
If you have jar pins on cakes you haven't birthed yet, go ahead and dunk and roll them. Jar pins means the cake has shifted gears from colonizing/consolidating to fruiting mode.
I don't recommend terrariums, aquariums, or anything else that's a sealed container with air pumped in. Nothing beats a $5 shotgun fruiting chamber. It's simple, it's cheap, and it works.
Now, to answer your questions in order:
1. Mycelium close to the lid is fairly normal. Sometimes it'll go airborne and grow vertically through the verm. If the verm is dry it won't eat the verm though.
2. 76 degrees and 90% humidity is nearly perfect. You can shoot for 99% humidity but in an aquarium/terrarium setup, I'm not sure it's a reasonable expectation. Your temperature is dead on though. I always say, if it's comfortable for you in the room, the cakes will be happy in the same room. Which is also why I'm not a fan of incubation...you wouldn't be comfortable trapped in a box that's 80 degrees while your body is burning calories, giving off heat and increasing the temperature in that box.
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somedaysoon
Stranger


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Re: questions for first grow [Re: afrosheen] 1
#14372341 - 04/29/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Afrosheen, you're awesome! Following your advice has made a DRAMATIC difference. Cleaned FC and perlite, re-moisturized it, and removed cakes from the jars. I was frustrated from the first attempt, and not sure about the second so I didn't dunk, and didn't know how to sterilized used cake material so I just put the cakes on foil and waited. You were 100% right about the immaturity of the mycelium on the first batch, so far I've had no problems with mold, got first fruits last week, got some more today, and the cakes are doing great, can't wait to harvest more.
Next question for you may be concerning the 2nd flush, first I'll do some more research around this website, the question will concern understanding how to know when the 1st flush is finished. Current plan is to dunk for about 12 hours whenever I know it's done, refrigerate for another 12-24 while cleaning/refreshing perlite, repeat current set-up, which is in a walk-in closet.
Misting every 1-2 days with a 1:10 solution of 3% Hyd per:water; the FAE seems to be working well, the timer is set for 2 hours on, 10 off, and every day I mist it also gets FA. Lighting is a blue LED on the side and 1 fluorescent light overhead, FC gets 8-12 hours light per day. Temp around 76 and lots of condensation so I'm not going to change anything for the next flushes.
Thanks again 

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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14372812 - 04/29/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Glad you've had some good results, welcome to the club. However, I still think an automated setup is kinda goofy. You'd be better off with a standard shotgun FC. All you need to do is drill 1/4" holes every 2 inches on all 6 sides. The magic of pressure differentials does the rest, and if you have about 5" of perlite, it'll stay hydrated for close to a month.
Oops, just read you're doing this in a closet, so maybe a shotgun isn't a good idea for your setup. Carry on.
To answer your other questions...
When does the 2nd flush start? Whenever the first flush is clearly done. There may/will be pins coming up for the 2nd flush which will survive the dunk. Some cakes just kinda keep on producing and it's hard to delineate, but you'll know over time.
For your dunk, go for the standard 24 hours. Make sure the cakes are submerged; since they're hydrophobic you have to sink them to the bottom of the container with weight so the water pressure forces rehydration. You don't need to refrigerate. Cold shocking is old fashioned and unnecessary for cubes. Matter of fact it can cause the myc to go into stasis for a few days and postpone your 2nd flush.
Good that you are misting, but save the h2o2 for cuts and scratches. You don't need it for cakes. It's only use, diluted, is to kill cobweb contaminations on the surface.
As far as your lighting goes, a single 6800k CFL bulb will do it. LED lights work too as long as the spectrum is close. Daylight spectrum or daylight bulbs is what you want, I've seen them at CVS and other stores for about $5. 12 on, 12 off.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14372831 - 04/29/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Woot!
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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somedaysoon
Stranger


Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 11
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: Doc_T]
#14479527 - 05/19/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Great advise as always, here's the latest developments, which will lead to a few more newbie questions when you get a chance, please
Dunked for 24 hours, new fruits were larger than first batch for a while, then they got long and skinny, not sure if it FAE or lighting issue. Misting 1-2 times daily, not directly on cakes, mister bottle creates big droplets so I'm afraid to bruise myc. The biggest fruit also grew real fast, too fast because overnight it spewed its spores all over cake, foil, perlite, etc. Wasn't sure what to do, left cake in there until it developed bluish-green mold on pins, then pulled the cake and the one next to it as well. Made halfhearted attempt to wipe remaining spores off foil, removed a couple of tablespoons of perlite that had spores. At this point there are 5 cakes left, and I'm paranoid I didn't remove in time so other cakes are contaminated. Fruiting goes on for a few more days, then 2 cakes started to get a similar color, and the myc seemed to shrink, so I threw them out today (see pic). I did a decent job not handling the cakes during harvesting, occasionally one would fall so I'd reset it, with a latex-gloved hand, really tried to not touch as much as possible. Now I'm reading that it may just be bruised myc and I wasted good cakes. Cakes that I've been throwing out may be dry, not bone dry, no visible cracks, but I'm not sure how moist they're supposed to be. Last 2 cakes have good pins, but myc is starting to show that same color, so here I am with the ?s Hope the picture is clear enough, it's off my phone

1. How fast will bruised spread through myc?
2. Misting - directly on cakes or not?
3. How to know what a dry cake feels like, i.e., how close to bone dry can they get?
4. Any Suggestions on how to keep cakes weighted down during dunking?
thanks again
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
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Re: questions for first grow [Re: somedaysoon]
#14480234 - 05/19/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Don't worry about bruising, it's supposed to happen at some point. It usually just shows you the mycelium is dry and/or it has been physically smashed, with little water droplets or your hands. Again, nothing to be concerned with.
You can mist up in the air or directly on the cake. I don't think it matters much honestly but you don't want a bunch of water sitting in pools on the caps day and night. That's why you fan afterwards.
A dry cake...well, it's lighter than a freshly dunked one. It will probably feel like a cork. They can get pretty dry but you should dunk after each flush looks like it's over anyway.
I used the old gypsy trick of putting the cakes back in the half pint jars they were birthed in, filling it up with water then capping it with a solid lid. You can do that or throw them in your pressure cooker and put them all under a dinner plate weighted down with whatever. Be creative, you just need them to be underwater for 12-24 hours.
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