Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSalomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ
Male
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH Flag
datura: the stop smoking cure * 1
    #14065807 - 03/04/11 11:22 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/scopolamine/scopolamine_article1.shtml

:horly:

Quote:

Anticholinergics and Smoking Cessation
The use of scopolamine and atropine for smoking cessation has not been approved by the FDA. However, as both compounds have been approved for other conditions, they may be prescribed "off label" for this use.

In the 1950s, atropine was found to counteract some of the deadly effects of anticholinesterase nerve agents such as sarin gas by blocking the muscarinic receptors.1 Using a similar logic, Glick et al. noted in 1970 that scopolamine may inhibit nicotine's addictive effects by blocking its site of action.10 Scopolamine, atropine, and nicotine all affect acetylcholine receptors. Scopolamine and atropine primarily block the muscarinic receptor subtypes while nicotine acts primarily on the nicotinic receptor subtypes.

An exploratory animal study found dose-dependent decreases in the self-administration of tobacco smoke in two rhesus monkeys that had been administered scopolamine; however, scopolamine's effect of increasing thirst may have contributed to the decrease in smoking.10

IIn 1986 a pilot study examined anticholinergic therapy in 500 human patients for a twelve-month period.11 Dr. Kirk Voelker, an advocate of the therapy, explains the theory for nicotine withdrawal that informed the pilot study:
An exploratory animal study found dose-dependent decreases in the self-administration of tobacco smoke in two rhesus monkeys that had been administered scopolamine...

    Bachynsky's [1986] paper [ ] suggested that there was competitive inhibition between nicotine and acetylcholine for the nicotinic receptors. [Chronic nicotine use thus leads] to an increase in acetylcholine stores in the brain. When the patient quit smoking, this excess of acetylcholine in the brain caused some of the physical effects of withdrawal. Bachynsky suggested that it took about 7-10 days for these acetylcholine stores to get back to normal. Thus the "hump" of physical withdrawal was in the first 7-10 days.12

In Bachynsky's theory, using anticholinergics to block the muscarinic receptors should shield them from excess acetylcholine, and thereby prevent physical withdrawal. In the pilot study, during their out-patient visits, patients were initially given intramuscular injections of 0.2 mg atropine and 0.2 mg scopolamine. Five minutes later they were given two subcutaneous injections totaling an additional 0.2 mg atropine and 0.2 mg scopolamine, plus 10 mg of the antipsychotic chlorpromazine.11 For the 13 days following their injections, patients received oral and/or transdermal anticholinergics.11 86.8% of patients were smoking-abstinent at two months, and 39.8% remained non-smoking at one year--higher than expected success rates for smokers using "the average smoking cessation program", Bachynsky claimed.11

This study was completed prior to the widespread use of bupropion (Zyban) and varenicline (Chantix) for smoking cessation. Research into the effectiveness of newer pharmacotherapies at 13 months shows the rate of continuous abstinence was 10.3% for placebo, 14.6% for bupropion, and 23% for varenicline.13 Depending on the form (transdermal patch, inhaler, gum, sublingual tablet, intranasal spray), nicotine replacement therapy abstinence rates range from 14 to 24% after one year.14 These figures are consistent with Bachynsky's claim.

Glick et al. 1970 and Bachynsky 1986 are the primary peer-reviewed studies supporting anticholinergic smoking cessation therapy.15 However, the authors of the 1970 monkey study caution that their results may not be generalizable to humans, and the 1986 pilot study has methodological problems, such as failing to use a comparison/control group. It should also be noted that about three years after the 1986 paper was published, its author was sentenced to just over ten years in jail for insurance fraud,16 and his medical license was revoked.

Two additional smoking cessation studies have reported results similar to Bachynsky. One followed 45 subjects and found a one-month success rate of 76%.17 The researcher holds a patent on the technique18 and is a primary shareholder in a clinic that administers the therapy. Another provider, the Welplex Stop Smoking Clinics, conducted a study of 200 patients with either a 78% or 88% smoking cessation success rate at 60 days (there is a discrepancy in the numbers provided in their report), and a 56% success rate at one year.19 Such results are encouraging, but reports lacking peer review that have been conducted by those with a direct financial stake in the success of a treatment should be viewed with caution.

Although the procedure appears to be relatively safe, delirium is sometimes a problem. In one case, a 59-year-old man who received anticholinergic smoking cessation therapy suffered delusions of persecution by his family. He was hospitalized after contemplating suicide and the murder of his wife.15 After discontinuing the oral anticholinergic regimen, his symptoms disappeared within 48 hours.

The Treatment Experience
The initial injections of scopolamine and atropine produce psychoactive effects such that patients are instructed not to drive. Forgetfulness, euphoria, intoxication, and hallucination are reportedly common. However, those effects usually subside within the first 12 hours. While the two weeks of follow-up medication may be sufficient to push some patients off baseline, it does not generally produce the kind of delirium associated with acute solanaceous plant intoxication.

Nicotine's physical withdrawal symptoms include depressed mood, irritability, nicotine craving, and anxiety.20 The two people we talked with who had undergone this treatment and the doctor who worked at a clinic offering the procedure all agree that it effectively eliminates physical withdrawal symptoms. Since the acute psychoactive effects of the treatment subside after 12 hours, it is clear that relief from withdrawal symptoms is not simply due to the effects being masked by a mental fog, though the pharmacological mechanism behind this relief is still a matter of speculation.

Mind or Matter?
It is possible that the psychological effects brought on by the initial psychoactive dose of scopolamine and atropine contribute to the quitting process. Such experiences are not unknown; the modern use of ibogaine to treat opiate dependence involves physiological and psychological elements that can be difficult to disentangle.21,22 In a related example, Leo Zeff reported losing all desire for cigarettes after a psychedelic therapy session in which he addressed his smoking.23

A doctor who worked in a clinic offering anticholinergic therapy for smoking agreed:

    How can we ever fully differentiate between pharmacologic and psychodynamic intervention? I believe both aspects were strong determinants of successful outcome. I would take advantage of this mythos of the strong and powerful medication, telling patients that we know these medications well and use them safely; that they do make you feel funny, and that is the therapy working; that even before they were pharmacy medicines, the plant sources were healing medicines for native peoples.24

Whether the primary cause is physiological or psychological, this doctor is convinced that scopolamine treatment can be effective in helping smokers quit.

    Some patients came in through ads, but most came in because they knew someone who successfully stopped smoking at the clinic. You take a 60-year-old southern gentleman with a 90-pack-a-year history (who tried to quit every way he could and always failed) who suddenly stops smoking after one two-hour visit without much difficulty; that is pretty damn impressive. It is enough to make one almost evangelical.24

In the accounts that accompany this article, an anticholinergic smoking cessation program appears to have been effective in eliminating nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Yet, like many smoking cessation therapies, it does not curtail the long-term, ingrained behavior patterns and stresses that can lead people back to smoking months or years after treatment. Nevertheless, these powerful deliriants may constitute a useful approach for some patients who need help getting started with the quitting process.





i think i'd rather keep smoking :satansmoking:


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14065812 - 03/04/11 11:25 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

People hallucinate that they're smoking cigarettes on datura. I've seen that reported many times between Erowid trip reports and other sites.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,383
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14065825 - 03/04/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

It should also be noted that about three years after the 1986 paper was published, its author was sentenced to just over ten years in jail for insurance fraud,16 and his medical license was revoked.

:huxleyfacepalm:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemellowparty
legitimate researcher


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 18,467
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14065826 - 03/04/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Acquire the skill of abstract writing.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSalomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ
Male
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH Flag
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: s240779]
    #14065827 - 03/04/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

what? that's not what this is about:confused:


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,383
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14065838 - 03/04/11 11:30 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

i know.


it is interesting, for sure. not sure it's worth it to take those just to quit cigarettes though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: morrowasted]
    #14065840 - 03/04/11 11:31 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Datura: the sanity cure.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKingSpade
Seeker
Male


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 993
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: s240779]
    #14065886 - 03/04/11 11:41 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

superhigh said:
People hallucinate that they're smoking cigarettes on datura. I've seen that reported many times between Erowid trip reports and other sites.




Yeah its true, I hallucinated cigs and bowls my entire datura trip, everything to holding them to blowing out the smoke, then you suddenly blink and its all gone.. trippy shit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: KingSpade]
    #14065900 - 03/04/11 11:45 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

That's really crazy. I don't know if I'd be able to conduct myself civilly in that kind of experience.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewakeme
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 08/02/10
Posts: 170
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14065950 - 03/04/11 11:58 AM (13 years, 1 day ago)

datura: the stop breathing cure.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMoo456
Pied_Piper

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: wakeme]
    #14066258 - 03/04/11 01:13 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

As much as I don't like deliriants, I like cancer even less.

I guess some of you just can't handle being plugged into charlie sheen's brain.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKingSpade
Seeker
Male


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 993
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14066289 - 03/04/11 01:20 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
That's really crazy. I don't know if I'd be able to conduct myself civilly in that kind of experience.




It was probably the worse experience of my life honestly

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14066312 - 03/04/11 01:25 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Cool article, thanks for sharing!


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Mage
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,085
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Salomon]
    #14066743 - 03/04/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

:yarly:

I can personally vouch for that having eaten a single seed of Datura metel, containing both atropines and scopolamines, greatly helped me last time I seriously quit smoking, in 2002.

A fifty cigs a day habit.
There was NO physical withdrawal.

I stayed quit for years.

My next serious attempt at quitting smoking very probably will be Datura-assisted too.

One should be extremely careful with Datura, as its very poisonous, but there are ways it can be used as a medicine. If I succeed I'll write a TEK.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Asante]
    #14066867 - 03/04/11 03:16 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Interesting study. There are patches against motion sickness with scopolamine in them, I'm sure they're available in the UK, should be easy to find in all of western europe i imagine, those are probably better then dicking around with datura seeds.

Also, interesting and exciting as it may be, it think it's better to quit using the old fashioned way with nicotine patches (lol old-fashioned), or swithing to the e-cigarette...:awesomenod:


--------------------
Not to be taken seriously by any means!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSalomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ
Male
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH Flag
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Asante]
    #14066877 - 03/04/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
:yarly:

I can personally vouch for that having eaten a single seed of Datura metel, containing both atropines and scopolamines, greatly helped me last time I seriously quit smoking, in 2002.

A fifty cigs a day habit.
There was NO physical withdrawal.

I stayed quit for years.

My next serious attempt at quitting smoking very probably will be Datura-assisted too.

One should be extremely careful with Datura, as its very poisonous, but there are ways it can be used as a medicine. If I succeed I'll write a TEK.



:themoreyouknow:


i hope you write that tek, considering i have literally over 9000 seeds at my disposal:hmm:




i was meaning to use them for something:shrug:


not that i will probably end up using them anyway


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSoupSandwich
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 4,440
Loc: Lost
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Asante]
    #22933992 - 02/22/16 03:33 PM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
:yarly:

I can personally vouch for that having eaten a single seed of Datura metel, containing both atropines and scopolamines, greatly helped me last time I seriously quit smoking, in 2002.

A fifty cigs a day habit.
There was NO physical withdrawal.

I stayed quit for years.

My next serious attempt at quitting smoking very probably will be Datura-assisted too.

One should be extremely careful with Datura, as its very poisonous, but there are ways it can be used as a medicine. If I succeed I'll write a TEK.




Sorry for bumping a 4 year old thread but...

A single GD seed? Are you shittin me?
I've taken a small amount of Datura before, there was a huge bush/tree growing near me, & aside from the hellacious drymouth,
I slept like a baby. Have stopped all rec drugs now, for quite a while, and need to stop my tobacco and coffee addiction.

Would be interested to hear how this panned out...

Still have some Naltrexone if nothing else, but that stuff makes my head feel like shit
and I want to vomit from smoking. It's like Anabuse for cigarettes or something. But worse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGr33nTree73
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 4,095
Loc: 585/843
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: KingSpade]
    #22934969 - 02/22/16 07:10 PM (8 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

KingSpade said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
That's really crazy. I don't know if I'd be able to conduct myself civilly in that kind of experience.




It was probably the worse experience of my life honestly



I've had 2 experiences with strong delriants.  Crazy, sure, but the dream like state they put you in stopped any sort of anxiety from building up in me to my own surprise :shrug:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Mage
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,085
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: SoupSandwich] * 1
    #22936085 - 02/23/16 02:05 AM (8 years, 10 days ago)

I quit smoking with MXE instead, much safer and much more enjoyable.

Its Datura metel, not any ole Datura, specifically that one.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 2,365
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: datura: the stop smoking cure [Re: Asante]
    #22936135 - 02/23/16 02:44 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Tex Watson, who did most of the killing in the "Manson" murders, was heavily into belladonna (another source of atropine and scopolamine) when he did the murders (contrary to popular belief -- it wasn't LSD). So was Susan Atkins.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.

Edited by endogenous (02/23/16 02:48 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* No more social smoking for me
( 1 2 3 all )
LthirdSeyeD 5,855 40 01/20/06 11:14 PM
by Konnrade
* is weed still fun if smoked daily?
( 1 2 3 all )
iamreadynow 8,277 46 09/16/04 07:03 PM
by MittsWaQ
* Post deleted by Anno
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,503 26 09/20/04 02:22 PM
by Skikid16
* Do you smoke Cigarettes?
( 1 2 3 all )
Red 6,472 46 09/07/04 06:36 PM
by Delyrium
* Quitting Smoking
( 1 2 all )
JustSomeGuy 4,271 20 07/23/16 08:38 AM
by Buddy Boy
* haven't smoked in a month! Anonymous 2,293 19 07/20/04 11:45 PM
by Skunk420
* How do i stop being a lazy fucker? Anonymous 1,322 13 04/05/04 05:40 PM
by RunDMT
* A good Datura experience (some guys trip report)
( 1 2 all )
cybrbeast 4,247 22 01/09/04 11:33 AM
by cybrbeast

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
3,046 topic views. 3 members, 49 guests and 93 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.016 seconds on 16 queries.