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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher]
#14066314 - 03/04/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
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Poid said: But isn't it technically possible for a person's coping mechanisms to compensate for the increase of death awareness by becoming more resilient? Lots of people use coping mechanisms to help them avoid dealing with and being aware of uncomfortable truths; their shields remain intact, even though their awareness of what's being shielded is somewhat high.
It's possible, but is any shield utterly immune, no matter how increased the awareness is?
I can't say for sure, how about you? 
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deCypher said:
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Poid said: I feel that people generally choose to be involved in activities that have meaning to them, and that result in some sort of joy; gettin' happy is not easy for everyone, so I would imagine it would be hard to convince humanity at large to do what's necessary in order to be happy--some people will be more easily convinced than others.
I don't think what you call people's "meaningless activities" are what prevent people from being happy, I think they participate in such activities in order to gain some enjoyment out of life.
I guess what I'm saying is that many people appear to be missing the chance to get more enjoyment out of their life because they aren't fully grokking the fact that they will eventually die...
I agree with that. 
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deCypher said: ...no need to convince humanity to do what's necessary in order to be the happiest they can be when they can convince themselves upon reaching this realization.
Well, again, some people will find it more difficult to be happy than others, and many of them won't even bother. I think people who have a relatively easy time getting over death anxiety don't need much convincing to do what's necessary in order to be the happiest they can be; people who have a hard time getting over death anxiety, however, will probably need at least some convincing in order to motivate them to persevere until they reach their goal of being the happiest they can be.
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deCypher said:
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Poid said:
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deCypher said: In particular, the Raymond K. Hessel scene from Fight Club comes to mind as an example of what I'm getting at; unfortunately the only versions I could find of the clip on Youtube were in foreign languages. 

Yeah I haven't seen that movie straight through yet--I've seen parts of it, but I've never sat through the entire thing.
For shame, Poid! Stream that bitch online if you have to; IMO it's one of the best movies to truly capture the meaninglessness of life (and perhaps a means of escaping said lack of meaning).
Really? I just got a laptop last night, so I just might do that.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid] 1
#14066366 - 03/04/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Poid said:
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deCypher said: It's possible, but is any shield utterly immune, no matter how increased the awareness is?
I can't say for sure, how about you? 
Likewise I cannot say for sure, but I doubt it.
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Poid said: people who have a hard time getting over death anxiety, however, will probably need at least some convincing in order to motivate them to persevere until they reach their goal of being the happiest they can be.
Maybe; I would think the hard part would involve making them give up the shields that prevent them from fully grokking their death anxiety... after that it's just a matter of time until they proceed to do what's logical (be the happiest they can be), provided of course that they are rational to begin with. 
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Poid said:
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deCypher said: For shame, Poid! Stream that bitch online if you have to; IMO it's one of the best movies to truly capture the meaninglessness of life (and perhaps a means of escaping said lack of meaning).
Really? I just got a laptop last night, so I just might do that. 
Nice dude, I think you'll definitely get a kick out of it.

Narrator: "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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jivJaN
yes


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher] 1
#14066408 - 03/04/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Most humans can't even understand the concept of death anxiety. I watched the first episode of the show "Mad Men" the other day ,for some odd reason.
The tobacco companies were struggling with some allegations that cigarettes may be harmful and this was costing the them a lot of money. She suggested to the AD men : All people have a death wish. Make the ad provoke that. Make the ad.. dangerous.
They brushed it off, laughed at it.. called it crazy.
I haven't watched the rest of the show , but im pretty sure they got around to introducing this method of advertisement. Basically.. the higher the death anxiety, the better the consumer . This consumer ,naturally, will not be attracted by your ad. | v
"We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing." --Charles Bukowski
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Check out the real situation Nation war against nation Where does it all begin Now? Whoa where is it going to end? But, it seems like: total destruction only solution, Yeah Ain't no use, no one can stop us now. Ain't no use, no one can stop us now.
btw.. im not really a sublime fan. just like this 1 song.
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher]
#14066485 - 03/04/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
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Poid said:
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deCypher said: It's possible, but is any shield utterly immune, no matter how increased the awareness is?
I can't say for sure, how about you? 
Likewise I cannot say for sure, but I doubt it.
I feel that for whatever hypothetical degree of awareness exists, there also exists a corresponding hypothetical shield . 
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deCypher said:
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Poid said: people who have a hard time getting over death anxiety, however, will probably need at least some convincing in order to motivate them to persevere until they reach their goal of being the happiest they can be.
Maybe; I would think the hard part would involve making them give up the shields that prevent them from fully grokking their death anxiety... after that it's just a matter of time until they proceed to do what's logical (be the happiest they can be), provided of course that they are rational to begin with. 

I would think that people with high levels of death anxiety are generally less rational than people with relatively low levels of it...
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Poid said:
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deCypher said: For shame, Poid! Stream that bitch online if you have to; IMO it's one of the best movies to truly capture the meaninglessness of life (and perhaps a means of escaping said lack of meaning).
Really? I just got a laptop last night, so I just might do that. 
Nice dude, I think you'll definitely get a kick out of it.

Narrator: "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time." 
Everyone I know who's watched it says it kicks ass; I have lots of dank pot club weed so I'll get to watch it stoned.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/04/11 05:12 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher]
#14066661 - 03/04/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you think that if humanity's death anxiety was made more conscious as a whole that we would abandon the trivialities of life and get down to what really matters; i.e. loving each other and making our existence as happy as possible for the short time that we yet possess it? If so, how could we do this?
Anything with a component of danger?
Standing on the edge is one idea, but the edge is relatively safe.
Jumping is another. I think most people get pushed. But is it nice to push?
Although, I'm not sure happiness and love are what really matters, and in a sense I think we experience as much death anxiety as we need to give us the best chance at doing what does really matter for the masses (biologically speaking), which is to survive and procreate. Some hate and unhappiness could be beneficial.
BUT, I think there's something good to be said for your argument. Modern life isn't nearly as hazardous as the life our genetics developed in. This could suggest an inherent disadvantage, which from a biological perspective would manifest as low birth rates which are witnessed in the developed world. Sleepy.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Rahz]
#14066694 - 03/04/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rahz said: This could suggest an inherent disadvantage, which from a biological perspective would manifest as low birth rates which are witnessed in the developed world.
You mean like in China, right?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14066736 - 03/04/11 02:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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China is fairly unique in that regard.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Rahz]
#14066770 - 03/04/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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What about India? India is a pretty developed nation, and its population is like 1 billion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14066812 - 03/04/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I mean unique in it's population strategy, as compared to most developed nations. China, as well as India, are still developing anyway.
As China develops, their need for strict population control reduces... it becomes voluntary, same as in developed nations.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Rahz]
#14066847 - 03/04/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rahz said: I mean unique in it's population strategy, as compared to most developed nations. China, as well as India, are still developing anyway.
*its
Some parts of each nation, like their major cities for example, are as developed as any developed nation. 
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Rahz said: As China develops, their need for strict population control reduces... it becomes voluntary, same as in developed nations.
It becomes voluntary? What makes you think that?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14066889 - 03/04/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some parts of each nation, like their major cities for example, are as developed as any developed nation.
Yes, I know that, but they are still considered developing nations.
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It becomes voluntary? What makes you think that?
They are already talking about relaxing the laws. Citizens in developed nations don't have as many children (rate over time).
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Rahz]
#14066937 - 03/04/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rahz said:
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Some parts of each nation, like their major cities for example, are as developed as any developed nation.
Yes, I know that, but they are still considered developing nations.
Yes, but you were talking about the developed world, not developed nations; wouldn't any developed portion of the world be considered part of the developed world?
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Rahz said: This could suggest an inherent disadvantage, which from a biological perspective would manifest as low birth rates which are witnessed in the developed world.
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Rahz said:
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It becomes voluntary? What makes you think that?
They are already talking about relaxing the laws.
Source?
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Rahz said: Citizens in developed nations don't have as many children (rate over time).
I think that's probably generally true.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14067038 - 03/04/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, but you were talking about the developed world, not developed nations; wouldn't any developed portion of the world be considered part of the developed world?
Yes, developed world, and in that sense it could be inferred, quite easily I might add, that I was talking about those parts of undeveloped countries, which are developed, and excluding those parts which are not, which leads to the same situation, and by saying "China" you were indicating the country as a whole, and not exclusively referring to a subsection of China's population, which is why I answered in the way I did. 
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Source?
Various ones. It was of interest to me so I researched it some time ago, though I didn't keep information or links. Your fingers work as well as mine and it's way off topic. It is a minor point in the context of this discussion. Start your own thread if you're interested enough and I will contribute, in so much as it is entertaining for me.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Icelander]
#14067087 - 03/04/11 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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"...an unconscious attempt at control of life and gaining immortality" I'm doing that consciously. I must be doomed
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Rahz]
#14067197 - 03/04/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rahz said:
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Yes, but you were talking about the developed world, not developed nations; wouldn't any developed portion of the world be considered part of the developed world?
Yes, developed world, and in that sense it could be inferred, quite easily I might add, that I was talking about those parts of undeveloped countries, which are developed, and excluding those parts which are not...
That is precisely what I inferred, and it was quite easy. 
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Rahz said: ...which leads to the same situation, and by saying "China" you were indicating the country as a whole, and not exclusively referring to a subsection of China's population, which is why I answered in the way I did. 
Is China a developing country? -- Business 360 - CNN.com Blogs
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It almost seems there needs to be a third way to describe China – neither developed (which describes its impact on the global economy) nor developing (which describes the average wealth of its citizens). Can China have it both ways?
Developed country - Wikipedia
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The designations "developed" and "developing" are intended for statistical convenience and do not necessarily express a judgement about the stage reached by a particular country or area in the development process.
Hong Kong, which is in China, is listed as rank 21 (there are 42 ranks) by the UN HDI (Human Development Index).
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Rahz said:
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Source?
Various ones. It was of interest to me so I researched it some time ago, though I didn't keep information or links. Your fingers work as well as mine and it's way off topic. It is a minor point in the context of this discussion. Start your own thread if you're interested enough and I will contribute, in so much as it is entertaining for me.
, you're not very familiar with the concept of 'burden of proof', are you?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (03/04/11 04:53 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid] 1
#14067263 - 03/04/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You're being nit-picky, and no, you didn't infer anything. All of that for nothing...
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This could suggest an inherent disadvantage, which from a biological perspective would manifest as low birth rates which are witnessed in the developed world.
Think about it.
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you're not very familiar with the concept of 'burden of proof', are you?
Of course I am, and you, knowing how long I've been here should, quite easily I might add, be able to infer that I had ulterior motives for not responding to your query in the manner you requested. Unless you care to start your thread on the ambiguity of national categorizations, I don't see the need to continue this discussion.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14067294 - 03/04/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Poid said: I feel that for whatever hypothetical degree of awareness exists, there also exists a corresponding hypothetical shield for it.
You may be right; the mind does have an unusually powerful ability to repress/ignore/deny what's right in front of it. Assuming that an individual has a finite ability to do so, though, all one would have to do is present the information that the individual doesn't want to accept in a sufficiently strong manner to overcome this ability.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher]
#14067355 - 03/04/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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deCypher said: ...all one would have to do is present the information that the individual doesn't want to accept in a sufficiently strong manner to overcome this ability. 
Wouldn't that just prompt the creation of a new, stronger shield?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: Poid]
#14067372 - 03/04/11 05:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I said assuming that the individual has a finite ability to create shields; thus we just have to present the information in an even more intense way once the individual has used his or her strongest possible shield.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Making death anxiety more prominent? [Re: deCypher]
#14067530 - 03/04/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I suppose you're right; do you think it's possible for a person to not be able to comprehend such information, even if it was presented to them in a way that was intense enough to break down their shields?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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