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InvisibleCups
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Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14058655 - 03/03/11 07:45 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

High intelligence is correlated with higher rates of depression, actually.  :sad:





Does this really surprise anyone?

Icelander posted awhile back about some research which showed depression actually results in extreme focus by brain on a particular problem.  Duh right, but perhaps this explains some of why this happens in highly intelligent people.  They can focus and examine things better and when that stray "depressive" thought comes a knocking...oh boy.

Quote:

because the meanings we forge don't hold water when seen for what they are. And in the face of meaninglessness, sometimes the suffering of this world just doesn't seem worth it.




I'm sure it has something to do with this too.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14058823 - 03/03/11 08:55 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

mushiepussy said:
I think the suicide rates compared between average intelligence
and high intelligence would show that suicide rates for average
intelligence would be higher, just guessing.




High intelligence is correlated with higher rates of depression, actually.  :sad:

Quote:

durantz said:
hrmmmm a psychopath can have very high emotional intelligence but have no actual comprehension of it...

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves...

what does this say about emotional intelligence?




Actually psychopaths generally have very low emotional intelligence:

Quote:

Laboratory research has documented psychopathy-related failures to attend to and make use of emotion stimuli (Newman & Lorenz, 2003), alter a dominant response set for reward in the face of growing punishments (Newman, Patterson, & Kosson, 1987), and discriminate among the affective aspects of words and faces (Blair et al., 2004).

...

Deficits in EI were associated (albeit modestly) with PCL-R total scores, the primary psychopathy subtype, and with the affective-interpersonal and impulsive-antisocial dimensions that comprise the two-factor model of psychopathy.

Overall, this study of EI suggests that individuals with primary psychopathy are both less likely to attend to emotion cues and less able to revise their mood states once emotions are experienced.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2344134/







Quote:

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves



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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14060291 - 03/03/11 02:01 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

They can focus and examine things better and when that stray "depressive" thought comes a knocking...oh boy.

What about a genious with adhd? They have problems focusing
but they are some of the most creative minds in humanity.

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InvisibleCups
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14060661 - 03/03/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

:shrug:

I think you have to define what you mean by depression.  IMO There's a thought based depression  brought about by analysis and loss of hope when you don't like the answer.

Then there's the chemical side.  ADHD is biochemical in nature so it stands to reason the potential is there.

Sometimes it's all in your head and sometimes it is your head.  Know what I mean?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14060847 - 03/03/11 03:37 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves







If they have low emotional intelligence then they DON'T know what makes people 'tick', though.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14060964 - 03/03/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

JUMPING INTO A PHOTO ! unwanted.
Grinning before the snapshot, unsuspecting of the SNAP shot.
From this speed limit  i have developed a hair trigger and a reluctance to remorse.
Only those who are notably displeased will be the ones who belong in the picture.

cALM DOWN...

why ?

cause

cause why ?

why.. cause.




*turns around and implodes


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---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleCups
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: jivJaN]
    #14060991 - 03/03/11 04:02 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

yeah absolutely
:suicide:


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Cups]
    #14061283 - 03/03/11 04:40 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Me ?
Never.

U know.. back in the day people used to put a slice of lemon in their coke.
Now the coke just tastes like theres a lemon already in it.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14061341 - 03/03/11 04:50 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves







If they have low emotional intelligence then they DON'T know what makes people 'tick', though.




Yeah. Good link. It also suggests that they are lost when it comes to effective emotional regulation. And it makes sense, if you are unable to learn what others do to regulate their emotions by seeing those emotions in others, then you have a much more guess and check style of regulation. I'm not sure that psychology has the tools to properly assess how well a sociopath / psychopath actually can regulate because we are looking for typical responses to specific stimuli. Novel solutions will fly right under the radar. Uninhibited emotions may be taken as poorly regulated even if it has been learned as the most direct way to get negative affective states through. No silly social games doesn't necessarily suggest low EI even though a normed measure that looks at behavior will say yes.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleCups
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: jivJaN] * 1
    #14061449 - 03/03/11 05:07 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

U know.. back in the day people used to put a slice of lemon in their coke.
Now the coke just tastes like theres a lemon already in it.




Is this a roundabout way of telling us you've lost it jivJaN?


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14062269 - 03/03/11 07:14 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves







If they have low emotional intelligence then they DON'T know what makes people 'tick', though.




Ok knowing and understanding are two different things. They may not understand WHY a person has a particular emotional response to something but they can easily work out what triggers that response!

A sociopath has just as much intelligence as anyone else (in a lot of cases they are more intelligent). So do you think it would be hard for them to find a causal relationship between action and emotion?

They KNOW what makes people tick. By that i mean they can see what actions will cause which emotional responses.

That research you quoted was testing the ability of the psychopath to express emotion and to change their emotional response... I'm sorry but that has nothing to do with their capacity to "read" other people's emotion.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14062412 - 03/03/11 07:37 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
That research you quoted was testing the ability of the psychopath to express emotion and to change their emotional response... I'm sorry but that has nothing to do with their capacity to "read" other people's emotion.




Actually, it does: "Laboratory research has documented psychopathy-related failures to ... discriminate among the affective aspects of words and faces (Blair et al., 2004)."


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14062460 - 03/03/11 07:45 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Let's replace 'affective' with 'emotional' because it's more common.

So that sentence will become "failures to discriminate among the emotional aspects of words and faces"

Now what that is saying is that they are presented with a number of 'human' faces with varying emotional states. They are they measured on their reaction to these faces. So the research has found very little difference in their reactions to these faces.

So again I say that the research is measuring the psychopaths reaction to emotion, NOT his ability to read emotion in others.

But thanks for bringing that research up cos it is good evidence for the point I'm making. :thumbup:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14062503 - 03/03/11 07:52 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

No, what it's saying is that psychopaths are unable to discriminate between different emotional states that people are expressing, or in other words that they can't read expressed emotion very well.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14062536 - 03/03/11 07:56 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

That's where most of the times their intelligence plays a part; they can't feel emotions but they can observe others and associate facial expressions and body movement characteristics to emotions without the slightest understanding on how it should feel)

Therefore you have sociopaths and such... Psychopath =/ autism

Edited by Beanhead (03/03/11 07:57 PM)

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14063669 - 03/03/11 10:49 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
No, what it's saying is that psychopaths are unable to discriminate between different emotional states that people are expressing, or in other words that they can't read expressed emotion very well.




Oh it's ok I see where you went wrong. You must have found an article and only read the introduction... I study psychology and they teach us to read the whole article...

So here is what I found out by reading the whole thing.

Quote:

we hypothesized that psychopathic individuals would display lower levels of EI than controls. To our knowledge, the present study represents the FIRST test of this hypothesis.




Quote:

we predicted that primary psychopathic individuals would earn lower scores than controls on the TMMS Attention and Repair scales though not on the TMMS Clarity scale. The results were in line with these predictions although group differences on the Repair scale fell slightly short of statistical significance.




Quote:

Our hypothesis that primary psychopathic individuals would be less adept than controls at shifting their focus of attention to repair negative emotions was only partially supported




Here's some information from the LIMITATIONS section of the article. Did you read that?

Quote:

In considering these findings, it is important to note that the TMMS is a self-report measure. As such, we can not conclude that it necessarily informs us about the ability of participants to engage in different aspects of processing (e.g., shifting their attention). It can only reveal whether they perceive themselves as “paying attention to how they feel”




Quote:

An additional limitation pertains to our all-male Caucasian sample. To establish the generalizability of our findings, future research should address whether gender and/or race differences exist in the pattern of associations between psychopathy and EI.




The only quotes you took were from the intro section... and in the intro did you not read the part where the author said
Quote:

Despite the growing research literatures on psychopathy and EI, there appear to be no published articles documenting their association.



???

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14063864 - 03/03/11 11:28 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Oh and I forgot to add that the participants of this study were all prison inmates. So this is a very biased sample because there are many sociopaths who go undetected in society.

The ones in prison are the ones who have completely failed to adapt to society. I'd be much more interested in a study of the 'successful' sociopaths.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14064058 - 03/04/11 12:04 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

What's your point?  Of course all studies will have limitations, and it's only natural that studies on psychopaths will have to be conducted on those who are in prison because those who aren't will have to hide their psychopathic status from the rest of society.  Furthermore, I did indeed read the article and from the Discussion section itself it reads:

Quote:

Consistent with this view, deficits in EI were associated (albeit modestly) with PCL-R total scores, the primary psychopathy subtype, and with the affective-interpersonal and impulsive-antisocial dimensions that comprise the two-factor model of psychopathy.




and

Quote:

Overall, this study of EI suggests that individuals with primary psychopathy are both less likely to attend to emotion cues and less able to revise their mood states once emotions are experienced.




Once again, showing that psychopaths are unable to discriminate between different emotional states that people are expressing.  Naturally, more studies should be taken to further confirm these results but nothing you've pulled from that article goes against what I'm saying.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: deCypher]
    #14064092 - 03/04/11 12:14 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

The study regarding the ability to discriminate affect, Blair et al., 2004, was its own seperate study. It was only referenced in the article linked. To discount or verify the affect findings would require digging up the study referenced.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14064118 - 03/04/11 12:18 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Right, but the original study mentioned still demonstrates that psychopaths show deficits in emotional intelligence and are less likely to attend to emotional states, which strongly points to an inability to discriminate in affect, as supported by the Blair findings.

Here's the abstract from the Blair study if anyone's interested.  I could pull up the full thing if I wanted to shell out thirty bucks, which I ain't gonna do.  :lol:
Quote:

This study investigates the ability of psychopathic individuals to process facial emotional expressions. Psychopathic and comparison individuals, as defined by the Hare Psychopathy Checklist Revised (PCL-R), were presented with a standardized set of facial expressions depicting six emotions: happy, surprised, disgusted, angry, sad and fearful. Participants observed as these facial expressions slowly evolved through 20 successive frames of increasing intensity. The dependent variables were latency in responding as measured by frame and number of errors. The psychopathic individuals showed selective impairment for the recognition of fearful expressions. The results are interpreted with reference to the Violence Inhibition Mechanism model of psychopathy and the suggestion that psychopathic individuals present with amygdala dysfunction.




--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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