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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: zappaisgod]
#14070262 - 03/05/11 10:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: You work in the private sector. I believe I know what company. Out of respect for you I won't name it unless you do. What happens to a private sector company that gives up too much to the workers? Gone. Your company has been protected against its competitor by the government. Your company does not compete on a level playing field because of government favoritism.
I don't think you can look at the position of my company in the marketplace and say it got there because of government favoritism. It has been the leading company in that industry for almost a century. Through vast numbers and orientations of governments. You're over-simplifying things. And at any rate, that has nothing to do with ME. Maybe our competitors need to get in the lobbying business.
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By the way, you do pay for all of those benefits by getting less cash. You have no choice but to accept that which has little value to you personally. A young single man without children would have to be an idiot to choose those benefits over cash. You get five weeks vacation every year but it costs you lost earnings. Who wouldn't rather work most of those and bank the cash? You have no choice. Serf to the union one size fits all straightjacket.
That's a two way street. Sure, I may be under-utilizing my benefits by not having children, but I will someday, and isn't that more than off-set by knowing that I won't have to pay any more for dependents once I am married and have children? The short term view is incorrect, in this situation.
And that vacation is paid, obviously. Unpaid vacation, .
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This has nothing to do with public sector unionism. If you guys ruin a company it goes away. That is why private sector unionism has fallen below 10%. They kill companies. But that is not the case with public unions at all. The government never fucking goes away, it has no competition and politicians are not the proper adversary across the bargaining table because they are beholden to a very great extent to the unions for their jobs. That is a definitively corrupt condition.
And what is attempting to be done is throw the switch in the completely other direction and force the public employees to take whatever compensation packages the government sees fit to give it, the table scraps if you will. It's not, as we've said before, about the money necessarily. Under Walker's bill, base pay will still be able to be collectively bargained.
But everything else, gone.
My company can't force me to work hellacious hours, or in unsafe conditions, or with out-dated equipment. This bill would give the government power to do all of those things to all public employees, including teachers and those in the public safety fields.
There is a happy medium somewhere, I'm sure, but I'm equally sure that this bill is not it.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 6 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14070334 - 03/05/11 10:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Madtowntripper said: I've been a Union member (Teamsters) for nearly a decade and it's been great for me personally.
I make a ton of money, have great benefits, have amazing job security, and work for one of the largest and most successful companies in the country.
My company, meanwhile, manages to compete quite effectively with other non-union companies in the same business.
how's that work out for others that arent in the union, I recall my mom going to NY for some show she was supposed to be doing, while she was setting up her booth several union members gathered around to inform her she wasnt allowed to do her job that it was a union job and she's have to pay them to do it
so I guess if job security and competitiveness means they can intimidate old women at a trade show, then they sure seem to have the market cornered
Who was this? The trade show setter uppers union?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14070536 - 03/05/11 11:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler said: Who was this? The trade show setter uppers union?
are you aware that the teamsters cover not just trucking but also flight attendants, the chemical industry, retail outlets, bakeries, laundries, beverages, construction and who knows what else
I was in the retail, wholesale and departmentstore union but worked in a lead mill, most of what we did was government contracts. there were shit loads of layoffs in that union
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Icelander]
#14070560 - 03/05/11 11:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Sounds pretty awesome, I can only contrast that with the corrupt unions it's been my misfortune to have had to deal with. I have nothing against the idea of unions if they are not corrupt and they are not exclusive.
oh... they arent exclusive, not any more, they wanna get illegal aliens into the unions
http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/16/news/economy/unions_daylabor/index.htm http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20060719/BUSINESS/607190541
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
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zappaisgod said: You work in the private sector. I believe I know what company. Out of respect for you I won't name it unless you do. What happens to a private sector company that gives up too much to the workers? Gone. Your company has been protected against its competitor by the government. Your company does not compete on a level playing field because of government favoritism.
I don't think you can look at the position of my company in the marketplace and say it got there because of government favoritism. It has been the leading company in that industry for almost a century. Through vast numbers and orientations of governments. You're over-simplifying things. And at any rate, that has nothing to do with ME. Maybe our competitors need to get in the lobbying business.
Or maybe the government should get out of the business of protecting your company. Am I really hearing you right, that you think there should be MORE government interference in your industry, and not less, to the detriment of consumers denied a free and fair marketplace? For shame.Quote:
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By the way, you do pay for all of those benefits by getting less cash. You have no choice but to accept that which has little value to you personally. A young single man without children would have to be an idiot to choose those benefits over cash. You get five weeks vacation every year but it costs you lost earnings. Who wouldn't rather work most of those and bank the cash? You have no choice. Serf to the union one size fits all straightjacket.
That's a two way street. Sure, I may be under-utilizing my benefits by not having children, but I will someday, and isn't that more than off-set by knowing that I won't have to pay any more for dependents once I am married and have children? The short term view is incorrect, in this situation.
But you could have banked a lot more money. What if you never have children? What if your sperm is dead? You have given up your right to accept risk.Quote:
And that vacation is paid, obviously. Unpaid vacation, .
You don't see that you have lost income potential by accepting a compulsory 5 weeks vacation? Another abrogation of personal choice.Quote:
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This has nothing to do with public sector unionism. If you guys ruin a company it goes away. That is why private sector unionism has fallen below 10%. They kill companies. But that is not the case with public unions at all. The government never fucking goes away, it has no competition and politicians are not the proper adversary across the bargaining table because they are beholden to a very great extent to the unions for their jobs. That is a definitively corrupt condition.
And what is attempting to be done is throw the switch in the completely other direction and force the public employees to take whatever compensation packages the government sees fit to give it, the table scraps if you will. It's not, as we've said before, about the money necessarily. Under Walker's bill, base pay will still be able to be collectively bargained.
There is no evidence whatsoever that they will be compelled to take table scraps. There are hundreds of municipalities in every state competing for employees. Why is there a monolithic workforce?Quote:
But everything else, gone.
Not necessarily. And what about compulsory dues and the right not to belong to a union? More lost freedom.Quote:
My company can't force me to work hellacious hours, or in unsafe conditions, or with out-dated equipment. This bill would give the government power to do all of those things to all public employees, including teachers and those in the public safety fields.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. here are several other methods to prevent that. The 40 hour week is law, safety rules are law. Outdated equipment? That isn't your call. And they can always seek another deal in another town.Quote:
There is a happy medium somewhere, I'm sure, but I'm equally sure that this bill is not it.
I think the bill actually is a "happy" medium when you consider that they could also outlaw public sector unions entirely. And should, as even that fuckhead FDR realized. Has it not occurred to you that public sector unions cost you, the taxpayer, money?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14070843 - 03/05/11 01:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I mean that if someone chooses not to be in a union they should still have access to a job to a union controlled workplace.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 6 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14074815 - 03/06/11 09:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Baby_Hitler said: Who was this? The trade show setter uppers union?
are you aware that the teamsters cover not just trucking but also flight attendants, the chemical industry, retail outlets, bakeries, laundries, beverages, construction and who knows what else
I was in the retail, wholesale and departmentstore union but worked in a lead mill, most of what we did was government contracts. there were shit loads of layoffs in that union
Can't say I really know much about unions. I've never even worked anywhere that had one.
So what happened with your mom? Did she tell them to fuck off?
-------------------- This space for rent
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Newt Gingrich is an Odd Duck [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#14076271 - 03/06/11 04:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler said: So what happened with your mom? Did she tell them to fuck off?
numerous times and had to call the cops because they were interfering with her in her job
cops did nothing but make sure they kept more distance while they berated her
had NY had a CCW reciprocacy law then she might not have had to call the cops, they'd have shown up to investigate after someone else called
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