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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1409485 - 03/25/03 06:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thought criminal!



Don't say that, the telescreen might see, that would be doubleplus ungood.

Hey, it's almost time for the two minutes hate! I gotta go!


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409494 - 03/25/03 06:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Like I said in my first post, I don't see how someone can be against the war and for the combatants. It seems like a paradox to me, like being against rape, but for the rapists, or against burglary, but for the burglars. Maybe the fact that so many people can think these contradictory things at the same time is a mass exercise in doublethink. It doesn't seem the least bit logical to me.



A rapist or burglar does the said crime out of their own initiative. Desertion can get these soldiers executed. Refusing to fight can get them courtmarshalled. They didn't all decide to be in this war. They are just doing their job.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409518 - 03/25/03 06:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think being against the war and supporting the troops is nearly the same as being against rape but for the rapists, I think its more like being against rape, but supporting the penis, the penis didn't choose (arguable) to commit the rape, but without the penis the rape couldn't have occured.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #1409525 - 03/25/03 06:54 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Like I said in my first post, I don't see how someone can be against the war and for the combatants. It seems like a paradox to me, like being against rape, but for the rapists, or against burglary, but for the burglars. Maybe the fact that so many people can think these contradictory things at the same time is a mass exercise in doublethink. It doesn't seem the least bit logical to me.



A rapist or burglar does the said crime out of their own initiative. Desertion can get these soldiers executed. Refusing to fight can get them courtmarshalled. They didn't all decide to be in this war. They are just doing their job.



These soldiers are volunteers in a military force with a history of doing crap like this. It's not an excuse. These are volunteer soldiers. They're not fighting for their country, they're fighting for business interests.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409529 - 03/25/03 06:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Who's business intrests, last time I checked, soilders didn't recieve any monetary benefit from business deals as a result of war.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409535 - 03/25/03 06:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Also consider that you earn just above the poverty line in the military (excluding officers and benifits).


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Skikid16]
    #1409541 - 03/25/03 06:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Who's business intrests, last time I checked, soilders didn't recieve any monetary benefit from business deals as a result of war.



The oil interests. We've got oil executives inhabiting the white house and we're now in a war of conquest to obtain access to readily available cheap oil.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409549 - 03/25/03 07:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Read This
The last thing the small oil companies that Bush is affiliated with is more Iraqi oil coming in.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409559 - 03/25/03 07:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The oil interests. We've got oil executives inhabiting the white house and we're now in a war of conquest to obtain access to readily available cheap oil.


I don't see how the soldiers will benefit directly from this supposition. They'll have cheaper gas when they get home, just like me, who sat at home and smoked my way through this war.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: z@z.com]
    #1409563 - 03/25/03 07:04 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

You're talking about the troops benefiting! All they'll ever get out of the deal is veterans benefits and a shaft in the bum in the short term.

Here's a question for you? Does a pawn benefit from an opening gambit? Certainly not! It's to benefit development for the pieces. It's just like war. The little guys are cannon fodder that play the game for the big guys and they can lead an attack on the king, but they're not valuable.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: z@z.com]
    #1409590 - 03/25/03 07:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Read This
The last thing the small oil companies that Bush is affiliated with is more Iraqi oil coming in.



In 2000 I posted about GW Bush and an article in World Oil about how his presidency would greatly benefit business. I'd find it now to post for you, but the search function isn't working. I'll suffice it to say the trade publication World Oil disagrees with your article.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1409595 - 03/25/03 07:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

If you happen to stumble upon it I would love to read it. Until I do though I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: z@z.com]
    #1409663 - 03/25/03 07:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Do you remember Bush campaign promise to get middle eastern countries to "open up the spigots" in the oil fields? I do. It's always been part of his agenda to increase all oil production. I didn't find the article I was refering to but I did find one proving that Bush wants increased production from the middle east. From World Oil:

Bush concerned with awaiting energy problems.(Brief Article)
Author/s:
Issue: Feb, 2001

President George W Bush may have to act quickly to prove that he truly can "reshape the United States energy policy." Already, he faces not only the possibility of re-surging oil prices but also the fear of heating oil shortages in the Northeast; record-high natural gas prices nationwide; soaring electric bills and an almost daily threat of blackouts in California. An additional challenge for the Bush administration is OPEC's decision, last month, to cut production. That decision will greatly test his administration, especially after his top advisors expressed their opinions that the answer to potential energy crises is to increase oil and gas supplies. This means that the administration needs to find a better way to coax OPEC oil producers to hold prices down, a goal that can be realized, Bush said, by incorporating his plan to "utilize a strong diplomatic effort." Also, there is a need to boost the country's energy production, something Bush promises he will do, even suggesting that the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve be opened to oil and gas exploration, thus increasing the nation's self-sufficiency. He also needs to find a way to deal with the rapidly changing electricity supply system. For more on issues facing the new administration, see article page 43.

COPYRIGHT 2001 Gulf Publishing Co.

COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #1410086 - 03/26/03 12:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

They didn't all decide to be in this war



they agreed when they signed on the dotted line.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1410148 - 03/26/03 02:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

they agreed when they signed on the dotted line.

yep, i wonder if it was hard to sign away your morality.


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OfflinePaid
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: ]
    #1410165 - 03/26/03 02:59 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Erm i wonder how many signed with an X


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Anonymous

Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Paid]
    #1410171 - 03/26/03 03:10 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

no, most just sign 666. its standard.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1410450 - 03/26/03 06:24 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

They didn't all decide to be in this war



they agreed when they signed on the dotted line.



They didn't all agree to be in this specific war. Many of them signed up well before the start of this war. Many signed up so they could fight a more just war in Afghanistan and are now fighting an unjust war in Iraq.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: silversoul7]
    #1410481 - 03/26/03 06:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It doesn't matter what they had in mind when they signed up.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Let's not support our troops [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1410492 - 03/26/03 06:43 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Ya, I know, cuz they have to fight anyway.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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