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mike689



Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 254
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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To shake or not to shake?
#14059256 - 03/03/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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that is the question....
Anyway, so I innoced 6 quart jars of rye w/ PE multispore on the 11th of last month. I let the jars sit until about 20% then rolled/shook them to spread out the myc. All the jars now are about 90% colonized except one.
5/6 of the jars look pretty much like this one

While this one, which I think I may have forgotten to roll/shake, looks like this

The myc in this jar is very solid on the bottom and only comes up about where it is in the pic, give or take some, on all sides of the jar. It's looked about like this for probably about 4 or 5 days now with no obvious signs of upward growth.
Is it worth it to shake this jar to spread it out or should I just let it run its course? I'm hoping to beable to spawn these babies to coir/verm/gypsum around the middle of next week.
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esquaredx



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 1,497
Loc: Dutch Country
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: mike689] 1
#14059267 - 03/03/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Its pretty much up to you. Personally I shake them at about 20% then let them do they thing.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: esquaredx]
#14059275 - 03/03/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shake again for sure. If that mycelium is healthy, the jars will be fully colonized in three or four days after the shake. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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dietrich
Zauberpilz-Esser



Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 319
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: esquaredx]
#14059286 - 03/03/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've found that there are many different opinions about shaking here. I would maybe make an experiment of it so you can form your own opinion on shaking for the future. I plan on doing this too.
-------------------- Ich heiße Dietrich der Zauberpilz-Esser und bringe ich Frieden und Liebe für alle.
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mike689



Registered: 05/13/07
Posts: 254
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14059300 - 03/03/11 10:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Shake again for sure. If that mycelium is healthy, the jars will be fully colonized in three or four days after the shake. RR
Thanks RR, doing it now
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esquaredx



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 1,497
Loc: Dutch Country
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: mike689]
#14060182 - 03/03/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Is there a real downside to not shaking the jars? I have luck with one to two shakes, and im good. any input?
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: esquaredx]
#14060317 - 03/03/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
esquaredx said: Is there a real downside to not shaking the jars? I have luck with one to two shakes, and im good. any input?
Not shaking increases colonization time. We shake to expedite the process.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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So if I have 6 quarts of rye that are 80% I should re shake and they will be fully colonized in 3-4 days as RR stated above?
I was under the impression that you were only supposed to shake once as to not damage the myc and increase the time by making them recover, will they recover and colonize completely if I shake again faster than if I leave them alone if they are near 80%? My jars have spread out dime sized spots of thick myc in the parts that aren't 100%, and you can see some growing inside away from the glass. I am afraid that they will take longer to recover than to finish if I shake.
I will take some pics with my phone and post them, it has a pretty good camera for a phone(5 mega pixels), my good camera has dead batteries. I will post pics as soon as my phone charges and post them to see if anyone has a suggestion on weather to shake again or not. My jars look closer to the second pic but it has myc spots about an inch or two apart in the non 100% parts.
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
Edited by 3n1gm4 (03/24/11 10:56 AM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: 3n1gm4]
#14175130 - 03/24/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldn't shake them. I only shake jars 1 time @ 20-40%. I don't even shake the jars I do G2G into other than the initial redistributing of spawn through my grains. They colonize in 2 weeks easy...
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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But it will be 2 weeks tomorrow since inoc and my temps have been ranging from 75-78F during day to 64-69 during night. Did I most likely shake too soon? Gonna look to see if phone is charged and get the baby out of his crib, then take some pics, BRB.
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: 3n1gm4]
#14175258 - 03/24/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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My 2 week time frame was referring to my G2G jars. MS takes me between 3-5 weeks for full colonization of my WBS jars. You're fine dude.
I should have those lid teks up tonight. Sorry about that, it's been a long/crazy week.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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Jeffreylabowski
THE DUDE


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 90
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: 3n1gm4]
#14175274 - 03/24/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I always shake mine at like 30% and 90ish...Once my jars recover and ar 100% they seem to colonize bulk substrate a little faster than when i didnt shake at 90%.. Maybe im just high tho.
I would always listen to what RogerRabbit has to say! Never doubt him!
In my opinion.. your temps are probably slowing down your jars a bit.. I keep mine at about 72-73 at all times. IME you wanna be on the colder side of things as opposed to the warmer end of the spectrum. If you have to pick one or the other.. Cold slows down mycelium though.
A few days after you shake.. your jars will be 100% and ready for bulk substrate. Assuming theyre healthy jars!
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Jeffreylabowski
THE DUDE


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 90
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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3-5 weeks for WBS jars? When mine take 2 weeks i get worried. Are you doing quart jars?
I always hear people talking bad about using cracked corn in WBS. I use the Rural King brand w/ cracked corn and have never had a jar take more than like 15 days maximum. Usually around 11-12 days. I use MS syringes that i made from spore prints. 3 cc's per quart jar.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Quote:
Jeffreylabowski said: 3-5 weeks for WBS jars? When mine take 2 weeks i get worried. Are you doing quart jars?
1cc per quart jar. No reason to rush things. I haven't used an MS syringe since January, though...I mostly stick to G2G & LCs now.
No cracked corn for this guy. Just standard WBS w/out corn
Here's y I don't worry about time that much: 
I've injected 1/2cc into a Quart jar before & had it colonize. G2G'd it then got this  I have another 20 jars that I G2Ged two left over jars from that to too. Got 30 jars outta 1/2cc so far...I'm done G2Ging it, now though...Guess I'll have to pick up a syringe in the next few days...Damn it...
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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It's all good thanks for the info, I will definitely be 100% by 3 weeks, that eases my mind because I have only seen people saying 10 day full colonizations for rye quarts in my searches. I won't be cutting my SFDs for a while, at least till my sub for these monos are 100% colonized, I have the general idea anyway in the lid tek. I was planning on tracing quarters on the SFDs leaving a little space in between to cut them just a little bigger than the quarter, and then just high temp RTVing them to the top of my lids. The tec would help though, thanks TL, much appreciated.  Quote:
Jeffreylabowski said: I always shake mine at like 30% and 90ish...Once my jars recover and ar 100% they seem to colonize bulk substrate a little faster than when i didnt shake at 90%.. Maybe im just high tho.
I would always listen to what RogerRabbit has to say! Never doubt him! I guess I will see in a few days from the one that I shook.
In my opinion.. your temps are probably slowing down your jars a bit.. I keep mine at about 72-73 at all times. IME you wanna be on the colder side of things as opposed to the warmer end of the spectrum. If you have to pick one or the other.. Cold slows down mycelium though.
A few days after you shake.. your jars will be 100% and ready for bulk substrate. Assuming theyre healthy jars!
RR said to go ahead and shake, and my jars are 100% healthy myc as far as I can tell. I did shake my extra jar that was the least colonized to see if it passes up the 80% ones. So in 2 or 3 days if it is 100% and my others aren't I will know for next time. I have plenty of time anyway, it has only been 13 days since multispore inoc and they all look great. It will just give me more time to clean and prep, which I need to start doing today.
Quote:
Jeffreylabowski said: 3-5 weeks for WBS jars? When mine take 2 weeks i get worried. Are you doing quart jars?
I always hear people talking bad about using cracked corn in WBS. I use the Rural King brand w/ cracked corn and have never had a jar take more than like 15 days maximum. Usually around 11-12 days. I use MS syringes that i made from spore prints. 3 cc's per quart jar.
Rye berry quarts, 1 to 1-1/2 ccs per jar. I was stretching my solution, 3ccs sounds like allot, do you get good results in the end?
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14175369 - 03/24/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mike689 said: that is the question....
Anyway, so I innoced 6 quart jars of rye w/ PE multispore on the 11th of last month. I let the jars sit until about 20% then rolled/shook them to spread out the myc. All the jars now are about 90% colonized except one.

The myc in this jar is very solid on the bottom and only comes up about where it is in the pic, give or take some, on all sides of the jar. It's looked about like this for probably about 4 or 5 days now with no obvious signs of upward growth.
Is it worth it to shake this jar to spread it out or should I just let it run its course? I'm hoping to beable to spawn these babies to coir/verm/gypsum around the middle of next week.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Shake again for sure. If that mycelium is healthy, the jars will be fully colonized in three or four days after the shake. RR
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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Jeffreylabowski
THE DUDE


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 90
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: 3n1gm4]
#14175408 - 03/24/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is what i did.. I used approximately 1.5 cc's on a couple jars.. And i labeled those. Then i did some with 3 cc's and labeled those. The 3 cc jars all showed first signs of mycelium. And grew quicker. It wasnt a significant difference in the end but since i make my own syringes i dont mind using 3 cc's per jar. I also fill my jars up as much as i can while still being able to shake them. Overfilling blows though when its time to shake.
Ive never used Rye though. Its more expensive and ive never had a problem with WBS. Maybe the way i prep my WBS is a little on the dry side and the extra 3 cc's of MS help with moisture?? Theres so many variations and peoples opinions on here.. You have to experiment and see what works best for you/your setup. Also, i store my jars in a pretty dry closet so maybe the extra moisture will benefit me but be a downfall for somebody else? ya never know until ya try!
Oh, and one last time.. Never doubt RogerRabbit! Cheers and best of luck!
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Jeffreylabowski
THE DUDE


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 90
Loc: midwest
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Sorry that im baked and didnt really pay a whole lot of attention to the pics.. But i fill my jars up to where after pc'ing and shake.. Theres probably about a 3 inch gap from the lid to WBS. With the smaller amount of grain in your jars id say 3cc's would be too much.
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Jeffreylabowski said: This is what i did.. I used approximately 1.5 cc's on a couple jars.. And i labeled those. Then i did some with 3 cc's and labeled those. The 3 cc jars all showed first signs of mycelium. And grew quicker. It wasnt a significant difference in the end but since i make my own syringes i dont mind using 3 cc's per jar. I also fill my jars up as much as i can while still being able to shake them. Overfilling blows though when its time to shake.
Ive never used Rye though. Its more expensive and ive never had a problem with WBS. Maybe the way i prep my WBS is a little on the dry side and the extra 3 cc's of MS help with moisture?? Theres so many variations and peoples opinions on here.. You have to experiment and see what works best for you/your setup. Also, i store my jars in a pretty dry closet so maybe the extra moisture will benefit me but be a downfall for somebody else? ya never know until ya try!
Oh, and one last time.. Never doubt RogerRabbit! Cheers and best of luck!
I buy organic rye berries from local health food store for 48 cents a pound, there is about enough in one pound to do six quart jars and I buy 10 pound or more at a time. I am sure WBS might be a little cheaper but I have heard much better reports from rye, rye is cheap enough and I would rather have a product with better results that is easier to prepare, than have a giant bag of bird seed sitting around that will sit forever before I use it all.
I am posting my cell phone pics now gimme a sec and you guys tell me what you think, wait a few days to a week Vs. shaking and waiting 4 days for it to recover.
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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3n1gm4
3N!9M4T!C



Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 2,727
Loc: The Downside of Up
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: To shake or not to shake? [Re: 3n1gm4]
#14175730 - 03/24/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I never doubt RR, he IS, The MAN, but his answers are not the only right answers, there are a million ways to do things, the right way depends on situation and he was answering someone else's question not mine is why I asked again. _________________________________________________________________ These pics are all of the same 5 rye jars, the first three are of the side that is colonized the most, the next three are of the side that has growth but in patches. A few top angle views thrown in for good measure.
There are only 5 jars in pics, I just took pic of two at a time to get the best pic since all I had was my cell phone.
These are the sides that look almost 100%
 
These are the sides that are lagging behind, notice the spread out spots that have grown from a piece of rye not touching the jar from the inside where you can't see unless you look close with naked eye. So I figure that they should be 100% within less than a week?

Couple top views..
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!
   
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