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OfflineBeanhead
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XI intelligence, gift or curse?
    #14053167 - 03/02/11 07:47 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I was thinking about tweaking again because i've abstained for moonnnthhs on end and just have fun in my journal and write 1654968 pages about this subject (because really, that's how it should be explained)

But a small introduction in this forum to start a discussion is good enough . Amphetamines is for another time :smirk:

Have fun reading!

From an etymological point of view the word "intelligence" is derived from the Latin "inter" (inbetween) and "legere" (to collect, read) . It expresses the quality to aqcuire data in the midst of an experience or in specific context and then choosing  the appropriate things which you correctly interpret/read so that it results in an intelligent decision, an intelligent act, an intelligent understanding, intelligent communication.

XI intelligent people don't want prechewed information, they want to discover the inherent patterns in data themselves. The capability to create their own structure makes them independent thinkers :smile:

On one condition: if said information interests them. :sad:

Yes yes giftedness... What can we call it? a gift or a curse?

Giftedness is asynchronous development in which higher cognitive abilities and heightened intensity go together and create inner experiences and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm. This asynchrony increases with higher intellectual capacity. The special of the gifted makes them particularly vulnerable and requires a different approach to optimally develop.  (direct quote from columbus group, 1991)

This view differs radically from the general consensus about giftedness as outstanding performance in school or visible success as an adult. Asynchrony means that you develop faster: you're not synchronized with peers and age-related cultural norms. Giftedness is universally recognized as a disparity between mental age and physical age. The greater the difference between mental and physical age, the greater the sense of otherness. Ironically this asynchrony, this otherness, often is hard to fit in the patriarchal pictures of "a successful life." Asynchrony is apparent accompanied by anything but popular social characteristics: sensitivity, independence, intensity, curiosity, wit, depth, passion, reflection, moral awareness and perfectionism (there are diffirent types of all these characteristics aswell but argh must stay on topic :lol: ).

Gifted people see the world differently because of the complexity of their thought processes and their emotional intensity. People often say to them: Why make everything so complicated? Why take everything so seriously? Why is everything so important to you? Gifted people are all 'too': too sensitive, too intense, too driven, too honest, too idealistic, too moral, too perfectionistic, too much for other people! Even if their entire life trying to adapt, they still feel an outsider. The damage we inflict on gifted adults by ignoring this phenomenon is far greater than the damage by giving it a name. Without a label appoint themselves with their own label, "I'm obviously insane. Nobody else but me gets upset by this injustice. " (par example)

So as you can see giftedness is not the winning lottery ticket. being that intelligent and intense, the risk of social and psychological problems are increasing. Tolan Stephanie in her excellent article "Is it a cheetah?" shows what it means when you are constantly asked for - so to speak - 70 km per hour to drive when you're made for 200 km per hour to drive. what it means is that you constantly have to do things that do not fit you . It makes you apathetic, unmotivated, and depressed or aggressive. (life's a bitch like that :lol: )
Is it a cheetah?

But what if you do not really know you're made to drive at 200kmph?, what if you assume that you operate the same way as others? Then you blockade yourself with all its consequences: disease, psychosomatic symptoms, psychological problems, professional problems, conflicts in communication, relationship problems, addictions, a hole / void one / one node / one stone in yourself. Because that what isn't seen nor heard, what is not allowed to come to life, expresses(manifests?) itself in an unhealthy manner

‘Every organism has an internal drive to fulfill its biological design. The same is true for unusually bright people.'
Stephanie Tolan


Rarely anyone recognizes themselves as gifted. Your skills and talents, you take them for granted. The weaknesses, however those you are keenly aware of, because that's the wall you always bump into (goddamn 70 kmph)

When you get to hear that you may be gifted it's that hard to believe. Because you can't prove yourself in your daily experience. Untill someone explains how it works, the combination of intensity and intelligence. Until someone explains you that a man who can not fulfill a unique function, the desire to work to lose - what classic 'underachievement' is called. Until you explain that giftedness is not the red carpet to success is only a name for the vulnerability that increased awareness brings. And the puzzle pieces in your life begin to fall into place.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14053242 - 03/02/11 08:17 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

It's a gift if you can get over your need to be understood at every turn. Being able to gain knowledge that others don't have is power, if you apply it instead of try to convince others of it. Self-doubt is the curse IMO. The fear of being alone with what you are.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14053248 - 03/02/11 08:19 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I agree that giftedness seems to bring a lot of suffering to the individual...

I'm sure we can all think of many examples where gifted people have lived very miserable lives and even killed themselves...

But it's as you say; their giftedness allows them to think with different patterns. But this means that they are unable to relate with the rest of the population and the rest of the population has almost no ability to understand the work of a gifted person.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14053304 - 03/02/11 08:38 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Yes i'm hoping to find some minds that think alike here :grin:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Beanhead]
    #14056695 - 03/02/11 07:51 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

There're quite a few hermit types here...


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflinePsylioSynethesis
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14056742 - 03/02/11 08:01 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
It's a gift if you can get over your need to be understood at every turn. Being able to gain knowledge that others don't have is power, if you apply it instead of try to convince others of it. Self-doubt is the curse IMO. The fear of being alone with what you are.




I really liked this. I think that it is this fear of being alone with yourself is what leads to what Durantz points out with, "I'm sure we can all think of many examples where gifted people have lived very miserable lives and even killed themselves..."

The problem many run into is the inability to express themselves to others (normals) on the same level as their internal monologue. This can be extremely irritating. Very much related to Bean's speed metaphor.


--------------------
P~S


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: PsylioSynethesis]
    #14057398 - 03/02/11 10:18 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

The problem many run into is the inability to express themselves to others (normals) on the same level as their internal monologue




Those people would see things that noone else could even accept existed.

Imagine Einstein going down to the pub with his fellow clerks and trying to explain to them how the theory of relativity works...

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14057444 - 03/02/11 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I think it becomes a gift once you realize your true potential
and give yourself the creative stimulation the gifted mind needs.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14057517 - 03/02/11 10:45 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

But what does the gifted person do with this?

Do they follow through with it and face the hardship of persecution and ridicule from the rest of the world?

Or do they just slip into the herd and try to camouflage themselves?

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14057549 - 03/02/11 10:52 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

They follow their intelligence and stop caring what the the
ignorant masses think. The world seen through the eyes of the
gifted is unique, and giving up this world to see it normally
is a disgrace to their dna.

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14057592 - 03/02/11 11:03 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

They follow their intelligence and stop caring what the the
ignorant masses think




why do so many commit suicide then?

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14057606 - 03/02/11 11:08 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

because the meanings we forge don't hold water when seen for what they are. And in the face of meaninglessness, sometimes the suffering of this world just doesn't seem worth it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14057637 - 03/02/11 11:17 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Amen to that brother...

Generally it seems that gifted people want to do things for humanity though... you rarely see a very gifted person start off with evil intentions. They may end up evil because they grow to resent ignorance but it seems that most of them are good people.

So it seems that they find meaning in helping others. Or creating things which don't exist yet.

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14057659 - 03/02/11 11:23 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I think the gifted mind experiences emotion more vividly and
are more prone to suffering because they are more aware of
themselves. Also, the facts that gifted people are so different
from others and they are also more aware can be a depressing
reality without the right circumstances.

IMO, enlightenment and self-actualization can save the gifted
mind from suffering and enable it to reach it's potential, just
as they can for all minds.

I think the suicide rates compared between average intelligence
and high intelligence would show that suicide rates for average
intelligence would be higher, just guessing.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: mushiepussy]
    #14057673 - 03/02/11 11:27 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I think it's important to note that there is a variety of intelligences out there. Intellectual intelligence is one kind. Emotional intelligence a very different one.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinesixxy
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14057707 - 03/02/11 11:33 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

sagacity ends the curse.


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taste the effing rainbow

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Offlinedurantz
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14057716 - 03/02/11 11:34 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

hrmmmm a psychopath can have very high emotional intelligence but have no actual comprehension of it...

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves...

what does this say about emotional intelligence?

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14057788 - 03/02/11 11:51 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Most likely that our emotions scare the shit out of us when we see them full on. Sociopaths get to see certain emotions in others that many of us try to hide from ourselves because we find them threatening. That's just my opinion.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: Kickle]
    #14057837 - 03/03/11 12:05 AM (13 years, 3 days ago)

@ op: still too vague :thaaannks:


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Jesus loves you.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: XI intelligence, gift or curse? [Re: durantz]
    #14058368 - 03/03/11 03:50 AM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

mushiepussy said:
I think the suicide rates compared between average intelligence
and high intelligence would show that suicide rates for average
intelligence would be higher, just guessing.




High intelligence is correlated with higher rates of depression, actually.  :sad:

Quote:

durantz said:
hrmmmm a psychopath can have very high emotional intelligence but have no actual comprehension of it...

They know what makes people 'tick' but they fail to 'tick' themselves...

what does this say about emotional intelligence?




Actually psychopaths generally have very low emotional intelligence:

Quote:

Laboratory research has documented psychopathy-related failures to attend to and make use of emotion stimuli (Newman & Lorenz, 2003), alter a dominant response set for reward in the face of growing punishments (Newman, Patterson, & Kosson, 1987), and discriminate among the affective aspects of words and faces (Blair et al., 2004).

...

Deficits in EI were associated (albeit modestly) with PCL-R total scores, the primary psychopathy subtype, and with the affective-interpersonal and impulsive-antisocial dimensions that comprise the two-factor model of psychopathy.

Overall, this study of EI suggests that individuals with primary psychopathy are both less likely to attend to emotion cues and less able to revise their mood states once emotions are experienced.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2344134/


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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